Bad Blood 2 Archer Vs Appleton For Free????

[JAM]

That is terrible news,because we all know earl is going to sell the most tickets,well i hope some way team earl can please us hungry pool fans,i hope you the best mark,but i just dont see archer and appleton attracking very many viewers.

Actually, Richie, I'm thinking this might be one of the *best* moves Earl Strickland has ever made in his pool career, to have a management contract. What would be helpful to Earl and pool, IMHO, is if he were to have an agent with as much pull/power as Jeanette Lee's agent.

It is a given that Jeanette Lee has game and personality plus. Because of proper promotion, pool has been great for Jeanette and Jeannette has been great for pool.

Earl is a different kind of player than Jeanette, but nobody can take away the fact that he's got game and personality. Earl also enjoys being the center of attention. So, if given a platform to shine brightly, Earl might perform brilliantly in front of the cameras, and I think Earl's best opportunity would be to do on-site exhibitions.

I agree with Perk who posted on this thread that the stumbling block for him and streams is not the cost of them but rather the time one needs to view a long match. I love pool, but I personally don't have that kind of time to sit in front of a computer and watch pool throughout the wee hours of the night, even though I have done it in person many times.

There is a difference in seeing pool live in person on site than seeing it on the Internet. That time investment to watch the long matches on the Internet is a deterrent for me personally.

If given a choice for how I would want to spend, say, $25 on a pool match, Accu-Stats that was previously recorded or a live Ustream, I would probably choose Accu-Stats. I base this decision not on the quality of the footage. I base it on time constraints in my life that prevent me from watching some Ustreamed matches live.

 

[Georgia Boy]

IMHO the problem is that the vast majority of Pool Players simply do not want to watch Pool Tournaments, live or recorded. I know virtually nobody, other than me, who is even remotely interested and only one or two have said they'd watch even if it's free!

What a lot of them are pissed about is not being able to see The Mosconi Cup, especially live coverage. It gets the audience there involved, which makes those watching on TV or over the Web want to get involved.

What makes it special besides the enormous talent on show, well it's pretty obvious IMO. The format brings about things that will always make any sporting occassion special. They are Patriotism, Team Loyalty and Audience participation. If anyone doubts that, please go back and look at the 2010 Mosconi Cup from York Hall, London. When was the last time you saw English, Scots, Germans, Dutch rooting for the same team, when was the last time you saw such passion from a sporting crowd, when was the last time you saw an atmosphere like that outside of maybe a Soccer Stadium? When was the last time you saw Pool Players rooting for each other with such passion, in fact when was the last time you saw that many pool playres show that much passion?

 

[JAM]

IMHO the problem is that the vast majority of Pool Players simply do not want to watch Pool Tournaments, live or recorded. I know virtually nobody, other than me, who is even remotely interested and only one or two have said they'd watch even if it's free!

What a lot of them are pissed about is not being able to see The Mosconi Cup, especially live coverage. It gets the audience there involved, which makes those watching on TV or over the Web want to get involved.

What makes it special besides the enormous talent on show, well it's pretty obvious IMO. The format brings about things that will always make any sporting occassion special. They are Patriotism, Team Loyalty and Audience participation. If anyone doubts that, please go back and look at the 2010 Mosconi Cup from York Hall, London. When was the last time you saw English, Scots, Germans, Dutch rooting for the same team, when was the last time you saw such passion from a sporting crowd, when was the last time you saw an atmosphere like that outside of maybe a Soccer Stadium? When was the last time you saw Pool Players rooting for each other with such passion, in fact when was the last time you saw that many pool playres show that much passion?

I couldn't agree more. Well said! Tap, tap, tap, as they say!

 

[RackemBilliards]

Legends Ring Game

Yes, McCready vs. Jimmy Mataya gets my vote and if you mic both of them it would make it spectacular.

I'd love for you to someday to be able to put together some sort of dream ring game among the legends of the sport. How about McCready, Mataya, Earl, Sigel, Reyes, Alex after a few pops, ?, all together at the same table, all with mics. Each man for himself, all out shooting, no ducking, and run your mouth if you want to. Maybe each guy would have to buy in, I don't know. Watching Earl v SVB on the 10 footer was ok, but a little slow for me. I've always felt that we've been missing out on seeing these guys true talent by not having a format where they had to try to make a ball every shot. If you can get Fats and Louie Roberts in you really are a miracle worker

 

[Mr Hoppe]

Do a PPV but DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT use ustream as you PPV provider.
Talk to Justin and find out who he uses for his PPV's.

GO DAZ GO

TAR and AccuStats both use AudioVideoWeb.

 

[krelldog]

Charge 25 bucks and give each subscriber a DVD copy of the match. Additionally as part of the DVD package have a candid interview with the players (in this case Archer and Daz) and ask the tough questions that are usually danced around.

The DVD package could be very generic with no frills. Hell I would be thrilled with a litescribed DVD with just a litescribed title on it. I personally would pay more for the right package. ie....stream/tshirt/dvd set.

 

[krelldog]

Also- As much as I appreciated Nick Varner commentating-you could trim costs by using someone at a much cheaper wage. I would also use either TAR or Accustats to orchestrate the stream.

 

[bfdlad]

FYI, I have nor abandoned this thread. I am reading along and making notes on ideas that may help with a little more thought. Still most of them don't really bring the $$ in that is needed.
I had a great chat last night with Justin from TAR for maybe a couple hours on one thing or another. We both agree that although we deal with top pro players and pool in general our products are different. However a lot of what each of us have to do to make an event work are the same. We have some of the same financial risks and time issues that also play a part in our different type of events. So it was great to talk to someone who really understands the ins and outs and problems that are faced.

There are so many great ideas that I at first look at and say to myself "Thats it, thats the answer" only to delve a little deeper and find that it won't work for one reason or another. I know there is a answer out there to all of this. The fixed cost is the one thing that just don't go away and has to be overcome.

Still working on the soloution and thank you all who have had nice words to say and given your ideas. Keep em coming.

Mark,

 

[bfdlad]

Charge 25 bucks and give each subscriber a DVD copy of the match. Additionally as part of the DVD package have a candid interview with the players (in this case Archer and Daz) and ask the tough questions that are usually danced around.

The DVD package could be very generic with no frills. Hell I would be thrilled with a litescribed DVD with just a litescribed title on it. I personally would pay more for the right package. ie....stream/tshirt/dvd set.

I do like this idea. But if I am going to do that I might as well not do the PPV and that will take costs away and just sell the dvd package. Also it will take away any streaming problems and having to figure out refunds. i mean if the PPV is choppy or bad in some way and someone asks for a refund what do I give them? do I still give them the shirt and DVD or a partial refund? how much? I'm sure you can see how it could get messy. However I do really like the idea and you may be on to something here.
Thanks

 

[Mr Hoppe]

I love the idea of the stream being free, but getting sponsorship dollars has been the problem for a long time now, hasn't it... I will say that when the last TAR stream went free at the last minute, they had 2,000 viewers! That should give potential advertisers an idea of what the viewership could be, but that was with different players, and as you said Memorial Day could affect your attendance as well.

As a customer, I would pay $15-20 for the Archer v Appleton stream. I had no problem paying $25 for the Johnny v Earl match due to the players involved, and I'm disappointed to hear that you can't work with Earl again, but understand it has to make sense financially.

One tip I will point out is that GOOD commentators can really add a lot of value to the production. Ones that I have enjoyed on other streams and DVDs are Incardona/Diliberto, Schuman/Agnir, Schmidt/Hunter, J Lee. Thanks for trying to make this happen!

One question: If the players will be mic'd, will there be subtitles for Appleton?

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

As for the other post about "not marketing properly"....where do you propose the streamer gets the necessary funds to advertise? Advertising isn't cheap, and when the streams are already losing money, a few extra thousand dollars doesn't just fall from the sky.

Having 200-300 people watch PPV events or 1000-2000 people watch these events free isn't enough. IMO, we need to increase the number of people watching these streaming events by 10X.

Since AZB appears to be the primary advertising outlet being used to let people know about upcoming events, somehow we need to do much better at marketing and promoting these events so that we can get 10 times more people watching them.

 

[bfdlad]

Also- As much as I appreciated Nick Varner commentating-you could trim costs by using someone at a much cheaper wage. I would also use either TAR or Accustats to orchestrate the stream.

Nick is a good guy and helped me out in a big way, also its hard to find someone who has as much knowlege of the games as he does and so I feel he is invaluable on that side of it as I have heard inthe past on other streams that the Commentary have no idea what they are talking about, I havn'r said that but others have and by having Nick there I don't think, anyone in their right mind can say that about Nick. Just my thoughts on that but I do understand what you are saying about cutting costs. Thanks

 

[Mr Hoppe]

When a stream is $10-25 PPV, you are lucky to get 100-300 viewers.

Think of the Apple iTunes model, wherein people pay $1 per download for music. When the price is low enough, people become less sensitive to the price and buy it. Perhaps this model can be applied to PPV pool events? If you were to charge a nominal $1-2 PPV, you might to get 1000-2000 pool players to buy it. At this price point, everyone knows that this is a great entertainment value and they are also helping to support our sport.

2,000 viewers x $2 = $4,000
300 viewers x $25 = $7,500
Which do you think is better? Maximizing profit is the goal in pricing any product. Somewhere in between these two prices will yield your maximum profit.

 

[JoeyA]

It costs $5k+ to put on one of these matches.

Only 1000-2000 people watch.

Do the math. That's about $3 per person that would be required in advertising funds. What kind of company is willing to invest that kind of money in sponsorship dollars for such a low ROI? It doesn't make any sense.

Yes, that math is correct. But that only refers to the INITIAL viewers.

HOWEVER, I am just wondering if the video for the match is set up to be available 24/7 for a particular period of time, like on youtube or even promoted on a website like www.insidepoolmag.com advertisers might take into consideration the growing popularity of people watching matches on the Internet via Youtube.

I can't tell you how often people come up to me (who I have known for YEARS) and say for the first time, "HEY, I just finished watching a match between so and so and I heard your voice doing commentary and just want to say, yaddah, yaddah yaddah" (Positive comments deleted).

More people are watching pool matches on the Internet everyday. I think if a short commercial was promised with each showing of the match, sponsors might take another look at these type of matches and the long term benefits of sponsoring them.

If you're going to keep the videos of the matches for sale only, that might diminish the attractiveness of the unlimited views that the Internet can provide.

I genuinely believe that the majority of pool fans are JUST NOW starting to watch pool matches on the Internet. Most pool fans just don't know that they can watch professional players playing pool on the Internet free of charge. They are discovering it every day. At least, that's what I am observing.

I think promoting the event is the key to viewership. Keeping it available ONLINE free of charge for viewing at future leisure is the producer's job. Selling this to the sponsors is the producer's job.

I would consider talking to the sponsors in our industry and asking them what they would like to see happen and then make overtures to the sponsors with the bigger bucks.

Inside Pool Magazine hasn't done anything recently with me doing commentary but they have the online magazine and can also sell ads to the sponsors so I would consider talking to them as well.. Just a few additional thoughts to consider.

GO CANTRILL!!!

JoeyA

 

[bfdlad]

Yes, that math is correct. But that only refers to the INITIAL viewers.

HOWEVER, I am just wondering if the video for the match is set up to be available 24/7 for a particular period of time, like on youtube or even promoted on a website like www.insidepoolmag.com advertisers might take into consideration the growing popularity of people watching matches on the Internet via Youtube.

I can't tell you how often people come up to me (who I have known for YEARS) and say for the first time, "HEY, I just finished watching a match between so and so and I heard your voice doing commentary and just want to say, yaddah, yaddah yaddah" (Positive comments deleted).

More people are watching pool matches on the Internet everyday. I think if a short commercial was promised with each showing of the match, sponsors might take another look at these type of matches and the long term benefits of sponsoring them.

If you're going to keep the videos of the matches for sale only, that might diminish the attractiveness of the unlimited views that the Internet can provide.

I genuinely believe that the majority of pool fans are JUST NOW starting to watch pool matches on the Internet. Most pool fans just don't know that they can watch professional players playing pool on the Internet free of charge. They are discovering it every day. At least, that's what I am observing.

I think promoting the event is the key to viewership. Keeping it available ONLINE free of charge for viewing at future leisure is the producer's job. Selling this to the sponsors is the producer's job.

I would consider talking to the sponsors in our industry and asking them what they would like to see happen and then make overtures to the sponsors with the bigger bucks.

Inside Pool Magazine hasn't done anything recently with me doing commentary but they have the online magazine and can also sell ads to the sponsors so I would consider talking to them as well.. Just a few additional thoughts to consider.

GO CANTRILL!!!

JoeyA

Thanks for your support and input, the glaring problem I see with your idea is this. I am trying to put it on live stream for free so all pool fans can see it. So NO PPV $. Not if we put it on the web for free NO DVD $. I am just wondering if I should also give free sponsorship too then I can really make no money Joey, I am being a little funny, I understand what you are saying and agree with you but all this takes away from the revenue to pay the costs of the event. The only thing we would have left is sponsorship $$. Now if we did it this way with free PPV and free on the web it would make the sponsorships more valuable that is true but how much more valuable? will it cover $15k+?? I guess the only way for me to find out is to start asking. Thanks again for your input.

 

[Mr Hoppe]

Mark, I think I hear you saying that Earl's management fees/percentage are cost prohibitive. It's a real shame because Earl is currently experiencing a real resurgance. He's so controversial that he's like a train wreck that everyone just MUST look at! Frankly, I think this is the train you want to be on, at least in the short term... Though Johnny is a really great guy, and a real champion to boot, I think it's a fact that JA v DA is not going to generate the excitement that Earl v almost anyone will. You might see if you can get his manager involved in helping you promote the event and getting sponsors. After all, the more he can put his client to work, the more money he can make. He may have some favors he would call in to get some out of industry sponsors involved. You never know... but one thing is for sure, Earl is HOT right now, and Earl vs Alex P would probably be the next biggest audience draw. Even if you only break even due to Earl's higher fees, you may learn some things and meet some people or sponsors that allow you to advance the PPV concept for your next event...

 

[Mr Hoppe]

Yes, that math is correct. But that only refers to the INITIAL viewers.

HOWEVER, I am just wondering if the video for the match is set up to be available 24/7 for a particular period of time, like on youtube or even promoted on a website like www.insidepoolmag.com advertisers might take into consideration the growing popularity of people watching matches on the Internet via Youtube.

I can't tell you how often people come up to me (who I have known for YEARS) and say for the first time, "HEY, I just finished watching a match between so and so and I heard your voice doing commentary and just want to say, yaddah, yaddah yaddah" (Positive comments deleted).

More people are watching pool matches on the Internet everyday. I think if a short commercial was promised with each showing of the match, sponsors might take another look at these type of matches and the long term benefits of sponsoring them.

If you're going to keep the videos of the matches for sale only, that might diminish the attractiveness of the unlimited views that the Internet can provide.

I genuinely believe that the majority of pool fans are JUST NOW starting to watch pool matches on the Internet. Most pool fans just don't know that they can watch professional players playing pool on the Internet free of charge. They are discovering it every day. At least, that's what I am observing.

I think promoting the event is the key to viewership. Keeping it available ONLINE free of charge for viewing at future leisure is the producer's job. Selling this to the sponsors is the producer's job.

I would consider talking to the sponsors in our industry and asking them what they would like to see happen and then make overtures to the sponsors with the bigger bucks.

Inside Pool Magazine hasn't done anything recently with me doing commentary but they have the online magazine and can also sell ads to the sponsors so I would consider talking to them as well.. Just a few additional thoughts to consider.

GO CANTRILL!!!

JoeyA

Joey, I agree that a live streamed PPV + an on-demand PPV is the holy grail. For some reason, Justin mentioned in a post above that there are severe challenges to that, though I'm not sure what they are. I believe Billiard Club.net and the IPT both had archived matches that you could watch for a fee or membership.

 

[houmatroy]

What is the most popular pool event in existence today? Everybody probably has their faves. For me, the most popular pool happening is the Mosconi Cup.

What makes the Mosconi Cup so popular? Is it the on-site audience interaction, hearing the cheering and applause? Is it the patriotic spirit of rooting for your hometeam? Is it the fact that the five best players at that time are representing their country and provide good pool to watch? What is it?

Whatever the magic ingredients are that makes the Mosconi Cup attractive, that's what is needed to produce a successful event. It's all in the advertising, the venue, and on-site audience participation. Is there are way to adapt the Mosconi Cup concept to these action matches?

You hit the nail on the head....Even in Professional Wrestling the fans have their fav wrestler & wear their t-shirts and what nots..in pool the fans might have a fav player or two but it's much more low keyed & not near as diehard.

With the mosconi cup it gives the fans on both side the pond something/someone to cheer for.

 

[JoeyA]

Thanks for your support and input, the glaring problem I see with your idea is this. I am trying to put it on live stream for free so all pool fans can see it. So NO PPV $. Not if we put it on the web for free NO DVD $. I am just wondering if I should also give free sponsorship too then I can really make no money Joey, I am being a little funny, I understand what you are saying and agree with you but all this takes away from the revenue to pay the costs of the event. The only thing we would have left is sponsorship $$. Now if we did it this way with free PPV and free on the web it would make the sponsorships more valuable that is true but how much more valuable? will it cover $15k+?? I guess the only way for me to find out is to start asking. Thanks again for your input.

No offense taken mate. Free on the web 24/7 is good for the sponsors and they might be willing to part with additional bucks. I don't know.. HOWEVER, the DVD sales are still a go imo. The great thing about DVD's is not only the quality but also the fact that you can easily replay shots to watch the patterns, stroke etc.

Another thing that you could add into the DVD's is some of the Pro's personal "SECRETS". That would make them more attractive for the true pool connoisseur.

I think the pro players need to put something in the kitty too. A good performance is a good performance but a successful win (long term) for everyone comes with a price.

JoeyA

 

[Eric.]

I had a great chat last night with Justin from TAR for maybe a couple hours on one thing or another. We both agree that although we deal with top pro players and pool in general our products are different. However a lot of what each of us have to do to make an event work are the same. We have some of the same financial risks and time issues that also play a part in our different type of events. So it was great to talk to someone who really understands the ins and outs and problems that are faced.


Mark,

Mark,

Not to kill any further responses to this thread, but, based on your conversation with Justin, you prolly consulted the person with the most experience, knowledge and insight into the business model of PPV Pool streams.

I do sympathize with the streamers situation on a revenue model. I also have been behind the scenes and saw a small portion of the amount of balls Justin needed to juggle, while I commentated on TAR 17 and TAR 19. It ain't easy and I hope you guys can figure out a revenue model that works. Maybe all the current streamers can form an "association" to jointly market potential sponsors. There is power in numbers and you can't do it alone. It's too tough.


Eric