Bad Wraps from Atlas. Any opinions?

Hit Man

Hit Man

<-------GANGSTA'
Silver Member
I recently received a genuine lizard wrap order from Altas for several hides and was disappointed. I'm wondering from other cuemaker's perspectives, would you have returned them or continued to process them for final fit?
Here's the poop. 13"x5" precut blanks, all weighing between .8 and .9 oz and measuring between .025 and .045 thick. What gets me mad is that the thickness variation across the width is terrible. I found 2 that are .024~.025 thick on one side and .040 on the other. You'd think from a retail sales standpoint that they would come evenly skived because they're not whole hides, but rather precut blanks for 50 bucks a pop.
Should I send them out and have them re-skived for an additional charge or ask them for exchange merchandise, and has anybody else seen this with Atlas? Maybe I'm just being too fussy, but I think NOT! I talked to the importer directly who supplies Atlas with their exotics and he was a bit surprised. Any thoughts?
 
I'd send them back....I buy whole hides and skive them myself...
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Not to preach here, but have you talked to Atlas?
your post sounds like you have not.

How would you feel if someone didn't like one of your wrap jobs, then,
instead of giving you a chance to work out the problem, just
posted it on a World Wide public forum??

Dale
 
not pre judging yet

Dale, no I have not spoken directly with them yet. But I did send them an email inquiry before this post asking for an RGA so they could look at them and verify what I'm talking about. I will be entirely fair to the vendor in a later post in regards to this though. I have no problem whatsoever with that. I may be entirely wrong and if so I wont hesitate to admit it. I do want to see what the opinion of other cuemakers would be in this situation. Currently I am just disappointed that they arrived this way and I believe asking the forum for advice is only fair on my behalf. I have no gripe about the price itself, otherwise I would have not bought multiple blanks. I think it's fair.
 
I can't comment on Atlas blanks as I have not used them. But I can tell you that real Lizard skins will vary much more than the pigskin or cow hide blanks. In the video I send out with my leather installation fixture I show how to touch up the edges of the leather. (DVD is not for sale seperately). But here is what you do. You can use a sanding block to sand the edges down to the same thickness or you can use a belt sander if you need to remove a lot of material. This takes more skill than regular leather and now you have a better understanding of why cuemakers charge much more for installing Lizard. So the bottom line is, if you are using real Lizard do not expect to get very many blanks that will be super consistant.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
Good, informative post Chris. Is the consistency of your leather blanks approximately the same as the ones described here by the poster? Thanks.

Gene
 
badly botched order

I had an order come in from Atlas that had about 50% of the order wrong. Wrong pins, wrong Ivorine 4, wrong three or four other things. What I was most annoyed about was the hundred dollars worth of Ivorine 4 when I had ordered a one foot sample for twenty-four dollars. The man on the phone said I could send the whole thing back or cut some off making sure that there was three feet left and send it back. Their mistake, I asked that they pay return shipping. The man on the other end said it depended on what I decided to do. I still don't see why it matters how I correct their mistake, seems like they should pay to get their property back that I didn't order. He didn't make plain which choice I had to go with and I didn't ask since he had suggested both options!

I had thrown the whole mess on the side in disgust but I may go back over the order and send back everything that was wrong. The black G-10 pins that are standard G-10, the piloted SS pins that are the same crooked unpiloted crap I already have a drawer full of, the Ivorine, the three flute tap I ordered that isn't, and whatever else is wrong that I can't remember at the moment. This is the worst fouled up order I have gotten in many years from anyone.

To all other suppliers: Send Atlas a thank you card, or at least a Christmas card. They made all of you future dollars with the handling of this order, particularly their handling when I tried to straighten it out. Think I'll send the whole damned mess back if I'm paying shipping anyway!

Hu


TellsItLikeItIs said:
I'm surprised that the Importer was surprised!!!

Chances are great he was a Broker and never layed a hand on the skins anyway. You're probably not being too "fussy" over the quality, but wouldn't it have been more appropriate to hear their comments before posting something like this?

I have no reason to believe Atlas would not gladly exchange the skins if they are not right. In the very few instances I have had a problem with their products, they have always responded in a reasonable time and have always done the right thing. Of course, before they can correct a problem, don't they need to be aware of it? What other cuemakers think of it should have no effect on your decision.
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BLACKHEARTCUES said:
How do you SKIVE a hide?...JER
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Sorry for my vagueness...I skive them after I cut out a piece for a wrap....
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Wow, Hu, this is just the opposite of my experience with Atlas. I mostly deal with Chad and he has been beyond helpful, even when I returned something that wasn't up to snuff. Sounds like your order got confused with someone elses. I'd be surprised if they didn't cover shipping back if you return the whole shebang.

Martin



ShootingArts said:
I had an order come in from Atlas that had about 50% of the order wrong. Wrong pins, wrong Ivorine 4, wrong three or four other things. What I was most annoyed about was the hundred dollars worth of Ivorine 4 when I had ordered a one foot sample for twenty-four dollars. The man on the phone said I could send the whole thing back or cut some off making sure that there was three feet left and send it back. Their mistake, I asked that they pay return shipping. The man on the other end said it depended on what I decided to do. I still don't see why it matters how I correct their mistake, seems like they should pay to get their property back that I didn't order. He didn't make plain which choice I had to go with and I didn't ask since he had suggested both options!

I had thrown the whole mess on the side in disgust but I may go back over the order and send back everything that was wrong. The black G-10 pins that are standard G-10, the piloted SS pins that are the same crooked unpiloted crap I already have a drawer full of, the Ivorine, the three flute tap I ordered that isn't, and whatever else is wrong that I can't remember at the moment. This is the worst fouled up order I have gotten in many years from anyone.

To all other suppliers: Send Atlas a thank you card, or at least a Christmas card. They made all of you future dollars with the handling of this order, particularly their handling when I tried to straighten it out. Think I'll send the whole damned mess back if I'm paying shipping anyway!

Hu
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Hit Man said:
Dale, no I have not spoken directly with them yet. But I did send them an email inquiry before this post asking for an RGA so they could look at them and verify what I'm talking about. I will be entirely fair to the vendor in a later post in regards to this though. I have no problem whatsoever with that. I may be entirely wrong and if so I wont hesitate to admit it. I do want to see what the opinion of other cuemakers would be in this situation. Currently I am just disappointed that they arrived this way and I believe asking the forum for advice is only fair on my behalf. I have no gripe about the price itself, otherwise I would have not bought multiple blanks. I think it's fair.
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so, youv'e never heard the one about un-ringing a bell.
 
Enough was right that it was probably mine

jazznpool said:
Wow, Hu, this is just the opposite of my experience with Atlas. I mostly deal with Chad and he has been beyond helpful, even when I returned something that wasn't up to snuff. Sounds like your order got confused with someone elses. I'd be surprised if they didn't cover shipping back if you return the whole shebang.

Martin
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Martin,

Probably my order but whoever pulled it had no idea of what anything was. I may have already talked to Chad when I was going to just straighten out the I-4. Whoever it was told me I had thirty days to make returns so I thought I would cut a ferule and decide if I wanted to eat their mistake on the joint stock figuring I would get around to using it if I liked I-4. I need to check the tap pricing against what was sent to see how that went too. It is a bit awkward because my order is at my shop an hour away and I don't have a PC there yet. I thought that Atlas had sent me a hard catalog awhile back but I may be mistaken. I do most of my ordering on the net.

The G-10 will get used, I just have to reorder the black for the current project now. The stainless pins are throw away unless I return other things because they did charge me for the cheap ones. It was just a small order to try their piloted pins anyway. Aside from the I-4 burn, I was just annoyed to have so much wrong that I have to reorder. Some of the things I needed when I ordered it, some goes on the shelf. No biggie when shelf items are wrong, a pain when something I need now is.

Not thrilled with the fact that the man on the phone blandly told me that all of their specialty taps are three fluted either. Guess I should cut the handicapped some slack though, apparently he only has three fingers to count on because both of the specialty taps I ordered have four flutes contrary to his assertions.

Hu
 
Cuedog said:
Good, informative post Chris. Is the consistency of your leather blanks approximately the same as the ones described here by the poster? Thanks.

Gene
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With real Lizard skins the blanks will vary from almost perfect to the extremes on this blanks and beyond. So I would say that most would be better than that, but not all would and some might be a little worse. My guess is that the shaving machines can't handle that small and wrinkled of skins as easily as the cow and pig skins, in order to produce real consistant thickness.
 
many of us have physical challenges

TellsItLikeItIs said:
Hu, you may not realize it, but some of US that have physical challenges do not appreciate comments like that. Don't bother cutting slack, it's not necessary.
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Many of us have physical challenges. I don't cut myself any slack, why would I cut anyone else any if they are so thin skinned that they are upset about something that clearly wasn't aimed at them?

You have my sympathy but I am not going to start tip-toeing through life or these boards worrying about offending you or your too delicate sensibilities. No doubt some with large noses or french ancestry could be offended by my humorous signature too. Cie la vie.

Hu
 
FWIW, we order from Atlas probably once a week and they are fairly big orders. Rarely is there a mistake or a problem. Might just be a fluke. Best thing you give someone is benefit of the doubt.

I've had leather balnks, no matter where I get them, vary from time to time. I think that is just part of dealing with an organic material. If it isn't to your satifaction, send ti back and ask for a replacement. I wouldn' think that would be an issue for Atlas.
 
ratcues said:
FWIW, we order from Atlas probably once a week and they are fairly big orders. Rarely is there a mistake or a problem. Might just be a fluke. Best thing you give someone is benefit of the doubt.

I've had leather balnks, no matter where I get them, vary from time to time. I think that is just part of dealing with an organic material. If it isn't to your satifaction, send ti back and ask for a replacement. I wouldn' think that would be an issue for Atlas.
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Tap Tap Tap brother.
My one question for ShootingArts: When you spoke with Atlas, were you pissed when you spoke with them? Did it show? I'm more than DAMN sure that they'd help you get your order correct in anyway possible. If they made any kind of suggestion about keeping what you have it might have been to see if you could actually need some of the stuff you ended up with. I still wouldn't rule out the possiblity that is was just an error on the labels... maybe someone somewhere has your order and is just as equally upset. Either way, they for sure would be happy to help you get what you paid for. I'm just curious if you were in any way showing impatience or disgust on the phone. Sometimes that really aggrivates the person trying to help you. I'm not making any assumptions, but it's something I would like to know. They do deal with ALOT of cuemakers/cue repairmen, so maybe the orders were accidentally swapped?... My experiences with Atlas has ALWAYS been a good one. I've known Chad for a while now. In one instance, I went directly to their building to pick up my order as I needed it immediately. Unfortunately, it wasn't ready when I showed up. Someone there went WAY out of their way to drop it off at the pool room I was working out of. I'd have to say that goes above and beyond customer service. I know that this will work out for you. They're good people. Always have been and will continue to be.
 
Hu, I learned decades ago a person should only look for sympathy between shit & syphillis in the dictionary. Rest assured, I don't need yours.

Have a nice life, with your outlook I'm sure you'll go far in it.
 
hopefully you are bright enough to realize . . .

Hopefully you are bright enough to realize that I was only wasting some effort being polite. I have came very far, much of the distance since becoming "physically challenged" almost twenty years ago. I didn't do it by sniveling and looking for offense where none was intended.

If you spend as much time and effort taking offense at every other imagined slight I'm quite sure that you don't have time to accomplish anything else. You truly have my sympathy. I feel pity for people like you. On the other hand, I have a great deal of admiration for the many people who face whatever challenges life throws at them. Regardless of the shape they are in, they don't get my sympathy or pity, only my respect!

Hu





TellsItLikeItIs said:
Hu, I learned decades ago a person should only look for sympathy between shit & syphillis in the dictionary. Rest assured, I don't need yours.

Have a nice life, with your outlook I'm sure you'll go far in it.
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Actually I wasn't mad at all when I called

I ship and receive dozens of packages a year. I rarely get bent out of shape about screw ups. Actually I was laughing with my neighbor who is a machine shop owner and has been there too as I unpacked one "almost right" item after another. All of the quantities are right and the items are very similar to what I ordered, plain stainless instead of piloted stainless pins, plain G-10 instead of the "black" pins, four feet of joint material instead of the one foot sample, on and on. It looked like someone who normally doesn't deal with stock put together the order. It happens. Too, UPS runs very late at my shop and I didn't call Atlas until several days after unpacking the shipment. It wasn't like I opened a box and called in a fit of rage.

The call was purely routine to find out what I needed to do to ship back the piece of Ivorine 4 I hadn't ordered and get the right one. The guy giving me multiple choices concerning shipping back the whole four feet or cutting it down to three feet, being very careful I cut the kerf off of my part, and shipping that back for refund and then having to guess which choice they would pay shipping for struck me as stupid but it was too silly to bother with at the moment. While talking we had decided I would install a ferule and if I liked the material I would just keep the four foot anyway. The G-10 I'll eventually use, and the stainless I find unacceptable was only a few pins to see if I liked their piloted pins, easier to throw the wrong ones away than to ship them back.

I do hate being lied to and that is what the absolute assurance that all of their specialty taps are three flute was, a flat lie. However, since the taps were at my shop and I was calling from my home an hour away, I didn't verify that until I looked at the taps several days after the call. I haven't talked to Atlas since then but the bland false statement is the reason for my real ire. The rest is just poor business on their part and leaves me inclined to buy somewhere else first but I probably would not find it worth discussing. All of this typing about it reminds me that I need to go over my invoice and the order and get this straightened out, it has been a few weeks. I might have let it slide through the cracks without you keeping it fresh on my mind. Thanks!

Hu




spotless said:
Tap Tap Tap brother.
My one question for ShootingArts: When you spoke with Atlas, were you pissed when you spoke with them? Did it show? I'm more than DAMN sure that they'd help you get your order correct in anyway possible. If they made any kind of suggestion about keeping what you have it might have been to see if you could actually need some of the stuff you ended up with. I still wouldn't rule out the possiblity that is was just an error on the labels... maybe someone somewhere has your order and is just as equally upset. Either way, they for sure would be happy to help you get what you paid for. I'm just curious if you were in any way showing impatience or disgust on the phone. Sometimes that really aggrivates the person trying to help you. I'm not making any assumptions, but it's something I would like to know. They do deal with ALOT of cuemakers/cue repairmen, so maybe the orders were accidentally swapped?... My experiences with Atlas has ALWAYS been a good one. I've known Chad for a while now. In one instance, I went directly to their building to pick up my order as I needed it immediately. Unfortunately, it wasn't ready when I showed up. Someone there went WAY out of their way to drop it off at the pool room I was working out of. I'd have to say that goes above and beyond customer service. I know that this will work out for you. They're good people. Always have been and will continue to be.
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