Balabushka - Is there any cue you could compare the hit to?

[HaroldWilson]

Hi,

I have owned and also had the chance to hit with a lot of old school custom cues such as Tad, Black Boar, Tascarella, Pre-date Southwests, Old Shrugg cues etc.

So far the opportunity has never come by for me to try an original Balabushka. Can anyone describe the hit, pitch and balance of his cues? Are they similar to any other cue maker in particular?

For instance I had a Tascarella once that had an incredible pitch and hit and sounded like nothing I have played with since.

 

[garczar]

I have and this may sound like heresy to some but it felt like most other steel-joint cues i've hit. If my cue-memory is any good i'd say Joss-Scruggs-Black cues that i've owned all shared the sound-feel of the 'bushka i got to hit. Never hit a Szamboti but i'd guess it would be the same deal.

 

[9Ballr]

Hi,

I have owned and also had the chance to hit with a lot of old school custom cues such as Tad, Black Boar, Tascarella, Pre-date Southwests, Old Shrugg cues etc.

So far the opportunity has never come by for me to try an original Balabushka. Can anyone describe the hit, pitch and balance of his cues? Are they similar to any other cue maker in particular?

For instance I had a Tascarella once that had an incredible pitch and hit and sounded like nothing I have played with since.

I've hit with two Balabushkas, both for about a night each, and I would say almost any high level production cue today hits better.
Not to mention the top custom makers.

 

[PoolBum]

I've hit with two Balabushkas, both for about a night each, and I would say almost any high level production cue today hits better.
Not to mention the top custom makers.

I've also hit with two Balabushkas, and didn't like either one. That's not to say they aren't great cues, and obviously some people love them, but the two that I hit with, to me at least, felt awful.

 

[Bigb'scues]

Balabushkas were top of the line in playability and craftsmanship for the 60s thru 70s (along with szamboti cues). Modern advances in adhesives and machinery at the production level have made most cues of today superior in playability. Bushkas are now collectors items , that's not to say you can't play with one...but why when you risk damage and theft... and there are cues that are a fraction of the price that play better...

 

[SC02GTP]

I have had the good fortune to play with two 1970's Balabushas and in my opinion, they play absolutely fantastic. There is no way anything built today can compare considering the time frame. Youi guys have to consider a few things before passing any kind of judgement on the hit.

1. You have to actually hit with a Balabushka enough to make an opinion.

2. Take into consideration the time frame in which George was building his cues.

3. Take into consideration how may other cue builders were around when George was building cues.

4. Take into consideration how information was shared before the advent of the internet.

When George was going to build a cue, he could not just hop onto the internet and look up anything about building cues or order the latest CNC machines. No, he had to figure things out on his own and develop a method of building and modify existing equipment of the day through a lot of trial and error.

Look what was available to the players of that error and think about the game of the error. The balls were heavy, the cloth was way slow, and, you had to have a stroke to move the ball around the table. Today, the balls are lighter, the table faster.

Look at how cues were built before George and Gus and what they meant to modern day cues. They set a bench mark that modern cue makers try to attain even now. Gus's points are still considered to be the best 40 years after the fact.

Think about automobiles of the 60's-70's and what you can buy today. It is not even close in any category you want to talk about. The present day autos are built better, more reliable, safer, faster, handle better, and, stop better. Think about what technology has done for our way of life.

So, after thinking about this, what other cues from the 60's and 70's can even compare to the cues of today when talking about how they play outside of Gus and George? What other cues are copied today and designs reproduced? How would George's and Gus's cues play today if they were still building cues on modern equipment, had access to modern information, and, building cues to better meet the needs of today's games?

 

[jasonlaus]

I have had the good fortune to play with two 1970's Balabushas and in my opinion, they play absolutely fantastic. There is no way anything built today can compare considering the time frame. Youi guys have to consider a few things before passing any kind of judgement on the hit.

1. You have to actually hit with a Balabushka enough to make an opinion.

2. Take into consideration the time frame in which George was building his cues.

3. Take into consideration how may other cue builders were around when George was building cues.

4. Take into consideration how information was shared before the advent of the internet.

When George was going to build a cue, he could not just hop onto the internet and look up anything about building cues or order the latest CNC machines. No, he had to figure things out on his own and develop a method of building and modify existing equipment of the day through a lot of trial and error.

Look what was available to the players of that error and think about the game of the error. The balls were heavy, the cloth was way slow, and, you had to have a stroke to move the ball around the table. Today, the balls are lighter, the table faster.

Look at how cues were built before George and Gus and what they meant to modern day cues. They set a bench mark that modern cue makers try to attain even now. Gus's points are still considered to be the best 40 years after the fact.

Think about automobiles of the 60's-70's and what you can buy today. It is not even close in any category you want to talk about. The present day autos are built better, more reliable, safer, faster, handle better, and, stop better. Think about what technology has done for our way of life.

So, after thinking about this, what other cues from the 60's and 70's can even compare to the cues of today when talking about how they play outside of Gus and George? What other cues are copied today and designs reproduced? How would George's and Gus's cues play today if they were still building cues on modern equipment, had access to modern information, and, building cues to better meet the needs of today's games?

Doesnt mean they play better than todays cues.
Jason

 

[classiccues]

Doesnt mean they play better than todays cues.
Jason

Jason,

It also doesn't mean they don't. The rub is in his time he was sought out by champions and USED by champions because they were the best of their time. There were guys in the 80's and 90's still using them until the collector value became so high, many sold them and purchased other cues to play with.
They are also irreplaceable for the most part. Until a cue from this era, lasts as long as a Bushka, I will reserve judgment on the "built better" today nonsense. But I won't be here to find out about it. The other factor is people still use old cues for conversions, WITHOUT regluing points. So the hide glue used by them, essentially the same glues used in the 60's must be pretty dam good. To those that say George was using "precision", better remove some components and start measuring, because I can assure you, his blueprint was exactly that, precision.
Playability is very subjective and very personal, person to person. I have played with cues I dislike but people love. I have played good pool with cues that people don't like.. Some people like Bushkas, Botis etc..some like South West, Rick Howard, and flat faced cues. To each his own.
I've handled and played with enough Bushkas and Szambotis to know that they can handle playing the game today, just like they were made to do 50-40 years ago. The only thing that matters, like any cue, is the hands that are using them.

JV

 

[cajunfats]

Comparisons

Hi,

I have owned and also had the chance to hit with a lot of old school custom cues such as Tad, Black Boar, Tascarella, Pre-date Southwests, Old Shrugg cues etc.

So far the opportunity has never come by for me to try an original Balabushka. Can anyone describe the hit, pitch and balance of his cues? Are they similar to any other cue maker in particular?

For instance I had a Tascarella once that had an incredible pitch and hit and sounded like nothing I have played with since.

I once hit with a Karl Mayer Titlist that had a very unique sound and feel. The only other time I had the same comparison was a Dennis Kepley Titlist Conversion. Both had Stainless Steel Joints.

I played with a few Szamboti's and hit some balls with Gus's Cue at the Ball Room in Tom's River,N.J.. When I moved south, I commissioned Gary Medlin at Gem Cues(Who owned a Szamboti) to build a cue for me, and the main requirement was that it hit like the Szam. That was 1991 when he started it. I still have the cue today. He nailed the hit, the sound, and in my vision,the homage to Gus. However, if you are looking for a Szam, Barry made 'em just like his Dad,perhaps better,imho.

The only other cue I have taken a liking to recently was an Ivory Jointed Tascarella that hit like a Dream!!

Like the majority of other posters have stated, it is a wide open field for quality cues to play with. Balabushka was the weapon of choice between many old school duelists, and they performed quite well. They are the Stradivarius of the world today. Mythical? Perhaps. But if you own one, you own Legend.

Gus is right there with him.

Pete is making incredible playing cues.

50 other guys out there with mad skills.

But, Gary Medlin got my hit just like I wanted,so he's my guy. Just my humble and biased observation.

Good Luck on the quest.

 

[pwd72s]

I have had the good fortune to play with two 1970's Balabushas and in my opinion, they play absolutely fantastic. There is no way anything built today can compare considering the time frame. Youi guys have to consider a few things before passing any kind of judgement on the hit.

1. You have to actually hit with a Balabushka enough to make an opinion.

2. Take into consideration the time frame in which George was building his cues.

3. Take into consideration how may other cue builders were around when George was building cues.

4. Take into consideration how information was shared before the advent of the internet.

When George was going to build a cue, he could not just hop onto the internet and look up anything about building cues or order the latest CNC machines. No, he had to figure things out on his own and develop a method of building and modify existing equipment of the day through a lot of trial and error.

Look what was available to the players of that error and think about the game of the error. The balls were heavy, the cloth was way slow, and, you had to have a stroke to move the ball around the table. Today, the balls are lighter, the table faster.

Look at how cues were built before George and Gus and what they meant to modern day cues. They set a bench mark that modern cue makers try to attain even now. Gus's points are still considered to be the best 40 years after the fact.

Think about automobiles of the 60's-70's and what you can buy today. It is not even close in any category you want to talk about. The present day autos are built better, more reliable, safer, faster, handle better, and, stop better. Think about what technology has done for our way of life.

So, after thinking about this, what other cues from the 60's and 70's can even compare to the cues of today when talking about how they play outside of Gus and George? What other cues are copied today and designs reproduced? How would George's and Gus's cues play today if they were still building cues on modern equipment, had access to modern information, and, building cues to better meet the needs of today's games?

Well said. I've never played with a "Bushka"...probably never will. I will confess that my considered collectable Palmer Model M from the 2nd catalog hits like a length of galvanized pipe compared to the Keith Josey I actually play with.

Cars a good comparison here. My first new car was a '65 Pontiac GTO. A popular car among collectors today. My '09 Bullitt Mustang, not worth much on the car market, is every bit as fast in a straight line and is far superior in brakes and handling over the old goat.

It really depends if you're into collecting or not. Nothing wrong with either choice.

 

[Cornerman]

Hi,

I have owned and also had the chance to hit with a lot of old school custom cues such as Tad, Black Boar, Tascarella, Pre-date Southwests, Old Shrugg cues etc.

So far the opportunity has never come by for me to try an original Balabushka. Can anyone describe the hit, pitch and balance of his cues? Are they similar to any other cue maker in particular?

For instance I had a Tascarella once that had an incredible pitch and hit and sounded like nothing I have played with since.

I think if you hum the word "tunk" in F# through the nasal, you'll be close.

Freddie <~~~ if mammories serve

 

[johnnysd]

I had the pleasure of having a Balabushka lent to me for a 6 month period back in 1989.

I believe it is still one of the three best cues I have ever hit, the other two being my Judd Fuller and the Treadway I just received (reviewed in cue review section), and probably at the top of the list.

All three of these cues in my opinion had a characteristic in common. They were very lively cues without being whippy. The Balabushka was probably a "medium" in terms of stiffness.

It had a lot of finesse. You could get a good amount of action with center ball or draw on short shots which made it great for straight pool.

It also had a distinct steel jointed balance and slight detachment that you would also see in a Joss or Szambotti or pretty much all steel jointed cues.

Modern cues are very different. They have large wood to wood joints that make them feel more one piece. They are much much stiffer in general, with some like SW, Barnhart, Olney, etc being very very stiff.

Players that prefer those characteristics would probably hate a Balabushka and call it terrible.

But there is a reason they are so famous and its not their inlays and fanciness. They were easily the best hitting cues of their time, and the best made (on par with today's cues) as well. They were special.

One other thing about a Balabushkas they need to be mentioned is their sound. In my experience no other cue had the sound that they had. It was crisp and pure. Closest I have seen are Treadways from a sound standpoint.

 

[Chopdoc]

My old Joss plays pretty nice, hits with a nice "ping". :wink::thumbup:










.






.

 

[9Ballr]

Youi guys have to consider a few things before passing any kind of judgement on the hit.

1. You have to actually hit with a Balabushka enough to make an opinion.

2. Take into consideration the time frame in which George was building his cues.

3. Take into consideration how may other cue builders were around when George was building cues.

4. Take into consideration how information was shared before the advent of the internet.

How are 3 and 4 related to their hit?

 

[deanoc]

i have owned dozens and played with one for years
plus i have been privileged to hit some of Dennis Glenn's cues

i like the solid feel,and love the basic designs

the idea that better machinery equals better cues is flawed
as is the better adhesives

the questsion is what cures today hit like a Balabushka
or something close?

as best as i can remember,i would say a Tascarella reminds me
of the hit or feel,also some of the Schick cues that i hit about 15 years ago

i can not tell you why,if i had to guess it would have something to do with the size
on the joint,top of wrap etc,possibly the shaft taper
Possibly the big ugly furniture screw connecting the wrap to the fore arm,
or the fact that the cues were heavy by todays standards

The trend is getting back to heavier cues though

i like the feel ,or hit,whether a certain individual would prefer one is any body's guess

i heard Buddy Hall offer Dennis a new cadillac to get his Balabushka back

Even today ,when i order a custom cue,I prefer the Balabushka look,
straight grain.mother of pearl notched diamonds and dots,even the colored acryllic
stuff in the butt

it would not surprise me if many of the old timers would still prefer their Balabushka to
any made today

The quality of the cue was somewhere near a Szamboti

I hope this info answers your question

 

[KRJ]

One other thing about a Balabushkas they need to be mentioned is their sound. In my experience no other cue had the sound that they had. It was crisp and pure. Closest I have seen are Treadways from a sound standpoint.

The same could be said of any Burton Spain cue :thumbup:

 

[Bob 14:1]

I ask out of ignorance, sorry. Did he use any special tip or hardness? Were there any other tips to choose from aside from say, Triangle or LePro which might have contributed to the playability of his cues?

As an aside, if Newman hadn't mentioned the illustrious name Bushka in the movie, where do you think their relative desirability would be today?

 

[bral]

You could get a good amount of action with center ball

What? Could you define "action" in this context?

 

[WildWing]

I ask out of ignorance, sorry. Did he use any special tip or hardness? Were there any other tips to choose from aside from say, Triangle or LePro which might have contributed to the playability of his cues?

George used the original French Champion tips, which today would probably be considered medium, after a break-in period. Veg tanned tip with a red fiber base. I'm not aware that he put Le Pros on, which would have been the other alternative in the 70s, other than the Blue Diamond, which is basically the same as Elk Master. Champions were the choice then.

However, most playing steadily with Balabushka cues would have replaced their tips after the usual amount of play. I don't think too many exist with original tips, though there may be a few around.

All the best,
WW

 

[alstl]

The question assumes every Balabuska plays the same. Put a different tip on and it will play different. How thin is the shaft 50 years later? Does it roll straight?

I adhere the theory the "hit" begins with the part of the cue that contacts the cue ball and works backward.