i'm reading "banking with the beard" and i'm having some success but i have a question. i cant figure out why sometimes we need to sight through the diamonds and sometimes opposite the diamonds. i am not seeing a pattern, is there any way other than just remembering which to do when? thanks, and any other banking tips of things to help remember would be appreciated.
Bank help please
- Thread starter nick55
- Start date
As the angles into the rails change, some systems need adjustments to adjust for shots that would come short/long if the system was applied but not adjusted.
If he says shoot opposite the diamond instead of through the diamond, you're hitting closer to the pocket and it helps to adjust how the ball comes off the second rail.
If he says shoot opposite the diamond instead of through the diamond, you're hitting closer to the pocket and it helps to adjust how the ball comes off the second rail.
Forget the diamonds. They are there for the game of billiards, not pool.
Try these methods. One of them should suit you.
http://www.azbilliards.com/jackkoehler/
Try these methods. One of them should suit you.
http://www.azbilliards.com/jackkoehler/
The greatest bank players in the world go on instinct. My advice is bank and bank and bank until your eyes begin to bleed and then bank a little more. You should know that you can set the exact same shot up, hit it soft and it will go long and hit it hard and it will come off short.
MULLY
MULLY
Dont insult me
Please dont compare Kohlers twaddle and pap banking misdirections with the golden nuggets in my books, Banking With The Beard and the GosPool. I threw all those systems out the window 40 years ago.
the Beard
Dead Crab said:
Please dont compare Kohlers twaddle and pap banking misdirections with the golden nuggets in my books, Banking With The Beard and the GosPool. I threw all those systems out the window 40 years ago.
the Beard
Ray Higley makes a chart "The Banks are always open" get it, study it, go to bed with it, hack it into something that you can relate to and you will be the banker that you have always dreamed of becoming. Now don't get me wrong Freddy the Beard, Chicago Bugs, Les Fiegel, Kid Delicious have all helped me. Ray's Chart puts everything that they teach you into math and lets you know why it works and how to make a bank into any pocket on the table from anywhere. Nuff said http://www.gladiators-usa.com/PRODUCTS.htm
Instead of getting defensive about my suggesting correct methods of finding the geometrical banking point suggested by Mr. Koehler, why don't you answer the original posters question?
He bought your book (as I did), and he asked a reasonable question.
So far, he has received two suggestions for geometrically-based approaches, and one for "hit a million balls". If you want to clarify your diamond approach, here is an opportunity.
He bought your book (as I did), and he asked a reasonable question.
So far, he has received two suggestions for geometrically-based approaches, and one for "hit a million balls". If you want to clarify your diamond approach, here is an opportunity.
Dead Crab said:
At least one of Koehler's systems listed there uses the diamonds. They're not just for billiards.
For one rail banks/kicks, aim at the spots in front of the diamonds for steeper angles when the ball will rebound "geometrically true", and aim shorter (at the diamonds themselves or thereabouts) for wider angles when the ball will rebound long. None of this is precise - get a feel (by practicing) for exactly how to adjust each shot.
pj
chgo
Mully,mullyman said:
Not exactly. They go long when the ball is rolling into the rail and short when the ball is sliding into the rail. You can keep a ball sliding for a longer distance by hitting it harder, which is why it seems that speed is the determining factor. If you put a ball very close to the rail (so that it won't be rolling before it reaches the rail) and then bank it will still come off short no matter how softly it was hit. If, on the other hand, you fire a ball at a rail at an angle with follow it will come off long no matter how hard you hit it. Try it, you'll see what I mean.
Dead Crab...Absolutely NOT true! The diamonds are a GREAT help, in learning to properly bank. I'm with Freddy on this one!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Dead Crab said:
No 1 paragraph answer
The reasons to go thru or opposite the diamonds has been argued. debated and outlined in many books with few concrete conclusions, mainly because the area of the most diamond systems is 3 cushion billiards. 3 cushion systems dont work on pool tables because the cushions are different. Billiard tables usually run about 1/2 diamond longer than pool tables. The standard billiard formula of diamond 5 (the corner) to go thru diamond 3 to get to opposite diamond 2 (the 3rd cushion) to get to the opposite corner is a stiff on a pool table. That is using the basic minus system, 5 minus 3 equals 2 and two gets you to the corner. On a pool table with 5 being the corner and the cue ball starting position, the formula is 5 minus the 1st diamond contact point (thru) 2.5 will get you to opposite diamond 2.5 on the 3rd rail which will bring the cue ball to the opposite corner. If this seems complicated, keep in mind this is the most simplest form of the diamond system. That's why a 1 paragraph answer is not practical. To go further get Willie Hoppes, Al Gilberts, Cuelemans, Eddie Robins or several others books on the subject. They spend hundreds of pages talking about it.
the Beard
nick55 said:
The reasons to go thru or opposite the diamonds has been argued. debated and outlined in many books with few concrete conclusions, mainly because the area of the most diamond systems is 3 cushion billiards. 3 cushion systems dont work on pool tables because the cushions are different. Billiard tables usually run about 1/2 diamond longer than pool tables. The standard billiard formula of diamond 5 (the corner) to go thru diamond 3 to get to opposite diamond 2 (the 3rd cushion) to get to the opposite corner is a stiff on a pool table. That is using the basic minus system, 5 minus 3 equals 2 and two gets you to the corner. On a pool table with 5 being the corner and the cue ball starting position, the formula is 5 minus the 1st diamond contact point (thru) 2.5 will get you to opposite diamond 2.5 on the 3rd rail which will bring the cue ball to the opposite corner. If this seems complicated, keep in mind this is the most simplest form of the diamond system. That's why a 1 paragraph answer is not practical. To go further get Willie Hoppes, Al Gilberts, Cuelemans, Eddie Robins or several others books on the subject. They spend hundreds of pages talking about it.
the Beard
thanks for all the replies, i'm not really looking for another banking method, as with everything too many methods just confuses me and since i started with this book im going to stick to it unless i absolutely can't get it which i dont think will happen. i understand that it just takes time to learn, just thought there might be some reason for that small adjustment. thanks again, and so far good book my banking is already getting better.
my problem with the book was that it seemed that you had to have a baseline to go from to adjust each bank. if its a dead bank from here than adjust to here to make it, that kind of thing.
Freddy does the best job of anyone yet of reducing the mysteries of banking to something that an average person can understand, however, as he said, HUNDREDS of pages have been written by others trying to unlock those mysteries. A lot of it is artistic and there is no substitute for a ton of experience.
I remember as a young kid in the poolroom I asked one of the great players I knew to show me how to bank better. He said, "Go back and shoot 10,000 banks and come back, and do you know what I'll tell you" ? I said "no, what"? He said, "I'll tell ya to go shoot 10,000 more, and then you won't need me". IT WAS TRUE...Tom
I remember as a young kid in the poolroom I asked one of the great players I knew to show me how to bank better. He said, "Go back and shoot 10,000 banks and come back, and do you know what I'll tell you" ? I said "no, what"? He said, "I'll tell ya to go shoot 10,000 more, and then you won't need me". IT WAS TRUE...Tom
Buy the Beard's Tapes (DVD's) and everything will become clearer.
Yeah?
And what's wrong with finding a reference point to start from?
the Beard
poolplayer2093 said:
And what's wrong with finding a reference point to start from?
the Beard
For someone that writes the book, you think you could get a clearer answer for the question you presented. Patrick states a similar answer to what I have read.
For one rail banks, use the point in front of the diamond as the reference point for your banks.
For multiple rail banks, use the diamonds.
Hope this helps.
For one rail banks, use the point in front of the diamond as the reference point for your banks.
For multiple rail banks, use the diamonds.
Hope this helps.
thanks klockdoc thats the type of answer i was hoping for unfortunately i dont think it coincides with freddy's book, i could grab it and site some examples if necessary but there are cases of multiple rail banks where he says go opposite the diamond and some through the diamond
Where were you when I needed you|?
Maybe I shoulda contacted you before I wasted my time for 3 years writing two books on bank pool and putting up over 350 pages of diagrams and systems that represented my 50 years of experience. You knocked out the whole thing in just two sentences. That's amazing. Why didnt I think of that?
the Beard
klockdoc said:
Maybe I shoulda contacted you before I wasted my time for 3 years writing two books on bank pool and putting up over 350 pages of diagrams and systems that represented my 50 years of experience. You knocked out the whole thing in just two sentences. That's amazing. Why didnt I think of that?
the Beard
freddy the beard said:
You'll have to ask yourself that question. You did a pretty good job with the knowledgeable people you did ask though.
I just thought that you could have taken the time to explain to Nick55 what he was asking, seeing that you wrote the book. If not in the forum, maybe in a private PM so you can protect your valuable information from those who do not care to purchase your book.