Bank the 8 proposition

  • Thread starter Thread starter onepocketchump
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Duh?

I'm always amazed when a person can't think of anything six inches past their nose. If my opponent was the dcc bank champion he has the same advantage on the other seven balls too. Better players have an advantage when playing head to head regardless of how the game is structured. DUH!

Hu




nfty9er said:
One player might be a great 1p player like Scott Frost and thus likely to make many more banks. What if your opponent was the dcc bank champion? It would be like spotting a champion in a game of 8 ball. Duh
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side deals

I never watch the finals anymore because I know the split (fix) is on most of the time.

If the final match of a tournament is not honest, well .........

Sponsors and Spectators do not hold back the game.

It's pool players that can't see beyond 4 1/2 feet by 9 feet that screw the game and themselves!
 
Hey Deno & KT....if pool players did this for a few thousand just think what will happen when your first million dollar tournament is held. :rolleyes:
 
You all are so naive. Take your game on the road and compete in tournaments all over the world and you will form friendships and alliances where it will make financial sense to make deals and split the money. It happens in all individual sports at all levels.

What is goinf to happen when KT has his first million dollar tournament is that there will be players who collude for their mutual beneift and there will be those who don't. Either way KT will have a milliion games on tape and be able to piece together shows that are compelling. For all we know he may want to actually catch someone cheating so he can record the drama of throwing them off the tour for the pleasure of the viewing audience.

John
 
I think it was KT and his clan of advisors that have been shortsighted with this.... They wanted to beef-up the action and suspense of the game... they wanted thrills and spills... so when the pool players decided to give them what they wanted by banking the 8 ball, then they get angry and pull the bonus money? What did they think would happen if they get a bunch of great players together and offer a bank-8 bonus? Everyone will play position for the bank and probably make it.

Now... on the other hand... to make a deal where both players are banking it... I do disagree with that.

These prizes clearly alter the game. Their focus shifted from winning the match to making some money.

I reminds me of playing barroom pool... if you play exactly within the rules and just push the cueball to a safe place without hitting anything... people get mad and cuss you out... but when they do it back to you because of their lack of skill... you have to take it. I see these guys just playing within the rules that were given to them.... They were encouraged to bank the 8 for God's sake!
 
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onepocketchump said:
You all are so naive. Take your game on the road and compete in tournaments all over the world and you will form friendships and alliances where it will make financial sense to make deals and split the money. It happens in all individual sports at all levels.

What is goinf to happen when KT has his first million dollar tournament is that there will be players who collude for their mutual beneift and there will be those who don't. Either way KT will have a milliion games on tape and be able to piece together shows that are compelling. For all we know he may want to actually catch someone cheating so he can record the drama of throwing them off the tour for the pleasure of the viewing audience.

John
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As long as KT keeps his tour in his own box, the millon games on tape might be compelling to the limited number of pool fans out there. To gain nationwide acceptance, I don't think the American public will want to watch something they feel is fixed so KT ought to keep this aspect of it under wraps and limit the possibilities of fixing. As long as he has his own paid announcers, this shouldn't be a problem. When someone outside the world of pool examines the game/tournaments/backgrounds of players it will come crashing down.
 
watchez said:
As long as KT keeps his tour in his own box, the millon games on tape might be compelling to the limited number of pool fans out there. To gain nationwide acceptance, I don't think the American public will want to watch something they feel is fixed so KT ought to keep this aspect of it under wraps and limit the possibilities of fixing. As long as he has his own paid announcers, this shouldn't be a problem. When someone outside the world of pool examines the game/tournaments/backgrounds of players it will come crashing down.
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You're assuming that any signifigant number of people can pay attention to any particular story these days. This has become a world of sound bites. For all you know KT might be preparing stories on the backgrounds of pool players to show the progression from ethics challenged hustlers to world class professionals.

I watch a lot of events and never think about whether they are fixed or not. The only way I would care is if I were betting on the event. As far as paid announcers go, I can't ever remember the network announcers going off about match-fixing in boxing while announcing the fights.

And Pro-Wrestlng is a perfect example of how millions of fans could care less about the "fix" and just want their fix of live action drama.

John
 
I am amazed you lack common sense

ShootingArts said:
I'm always amazed when a person can't think of anything six inches past their nose. If my opponent was the dcc bank champion he has the same advantage on the other seven balls too. Better players have an advantage when playing head to head regardless of how the game is structured. DUH!

Hu
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First of all bank champions are not necessarily better players in any game.
Most only excel in banks. But if you are crazy enough to play a bank champion bank 8 ball although you are a better player you are nuts. Some people only play 9 ball so how would a bank champion have the advantage on the other 7 balls. Maybe my nose is too big to see past 6 inches. If I can shoot as good as you but am a bank champion. Who is going to win in the long run? I would love to proposition you in a game, you wouldn't be able to figure out I had the best advantage. lol
 
And furthermore ...

onepocketchump said:
You're assuming that any signifigant number of people can pay attention to any particular story these days. This has become a world of sound bites. For all you know KT might be preparing stories on the backgrounds of pool players to show the progression from ethics challenged hustlers to world class professionals.

I watch a lot of events and never think about whether they are fixed or not. The only way I would care is if I were betting on the event. As far as paid announcers go, I can't ever remember the network announcers going off about match-fixing in boxing while announcing the fights.

And Pro-Wrestlng is a perfect example of how millions of fans could care less about the "fix" and just want their fix of live action drama.

John
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They have that Pro Wrestling on in the Mornings now. Jeesh, I can not think of anything more repugnant than watching that anytime, let alone in the morning. I watch NYPD Blue and Law and Order like everyone else ....lol

Although I have split between 1st and 2nd in local weekly tournaments before (mostly because it is past closing time), I never do in special or bigger tournaments ever, and I think the only guys wanting savers in bigger tournaments are the ones that don't think they can win.
 
nfty9er said:
First of all bank champions are not necessarily better players in any game.
Most only excel in banks. But if you are crazy enough to play a bank champion bank 8 ball although you are a better player you are nuts. Some people only play 9 ball so how would a bank champion have the advantage on the other 7 balls. Maybe my nose is too big to see past 6 inches. If I can shoot as good as you but am a bank champion. Who is going to win in the long run? I would love to proposition you in a game, you wouldn't be able to figure out I had the best advantage. lol
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The five best 'bankers' I have seen play the most are Shannon Daulton, Tony Fargo, Jason Miller, Mark Tadd & Mark Jarvis. Shannon & Jason have already won the all-around championship at the DCC, I believe Mark Tadd, the last time he played, swept all 3 tournaments (9 ball, banks, one pocket) at a big event he entered & Fargo & Jarvis can let their 'other' games speak for themselves.
 
When the title becomes more important than prize money contestants will always chop the cash. i.e. When winning the US Open will mean more in sponsor and appearance money then first place will be important.

Until second place money comes out of the basement there will always be a saver or a keeper. Do you want to go through days of battle and come away with nothing for second place?

In poker combatants will figure out the payouts between themselves but they will make an earnest battle for the bracelet. Sports is also a business. If you dont like that stick with the Amateurs.
 
watchez said:
I don't think the American public will want to watch something they feel is fixed....
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I don't think the american public would even realize that anything has been fixed. It's generally only the people who have some kind of connection to the inside workings of the sport who know this stuff.
 
Have you ever played pool before?

nfty9er,

Have you ever played pool before? I mean on a real table, not the Internet?

A bank champion will always be a far better player at any game involving a pool table than someone who isn't competent to set up a simple bank shot and then make that easy bank shot.

You apparently have no concept of what is needed to make a bank shot or a bank shot champion. The word is fundamentals. Let's see, the bank shot champion has to have exceptional aiming ability because errors are multiplied. They have to have excellent speed control because speed has a significant effect on banking angle. They also have to have excellent cue ball control after the hit to set up the next bank. All of these things are of some slight:rolleyes: use in other games!

Simple fact: If two players meet who have the abilities needed to win a IPT qualifier it is extremely unlikely to change the outcome if both bank the eightball or if they both don't. It isn't really that big of a deal. However if they both agree to bank the eight ball and there is a $1000 guaranteed payout for making the eight shooting a bank then the match is worth a lot of money.

I have played where banking the eight was the only way eight ball was played. It cost me exactly one game, the first! Nobody mentioned banking the eight until I shot it straight in the first game. Everyone was indeed playing bank the eight on every table and I simply wrote it off as a local custom just like other local rules I have encountered.

I am just an old man, blind in one eye and can't see out of the other and I have a major gimp in my giddy-up. However anytime you want to propose a game, have at it. I figure if I bank the eight and you don't that should be worth you spotting a few games on the wire as tough as you think banking the eight is!

Hu




QUOTE=nfty9er]First of all bank champions are not necessarily better players in any game.
Most only excel in banks. But if you are crazy enough to play a bank champion bank 8 ball although you are a better player you are nuts. Some people only play 9 ball so how would a bank champion have the advantage on the other 7 balls. Maybe my nose is too big to see past 6 inches. If I can shoot as good as you but am a bank champion. Who is going to win in the long run? I would love to proposition you in a game, you wouldn't be able to figure out I had the best advantage. lol[/QUOTE]
 
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By my count KT paid out-

$29,000 to 23 players for "Banking the 8".
$1500 to 3 players for "8 on the Break".
$10,000 to 2 players for "Running 6 consecutive racks".

Chia Ching- Wu- $5500
Ortmann- $5000
Hjorleifson- $3000
Sambajon,Kruger,Hybler,Gallego- $2000 ea.

Terry
 
Tbeaux said:
By my count KT paid out-

$29,000 to 23 players for "Banking the 8".
$1500 to 3 players for "8 on the Break".
$10,000 to 2 players for "Running 6 consecutive racks".

Chia Ching- Wu- $5500
Ortmann- $5000
Hjorleifson- $3000
Sambajon,Kruger,Hybler,Gallego- $2000 ea.

Terry
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You forgot the 12 people Mike played. He beat 7 of them earning $14,000 for himself. The 5 who beat him won entry to the next two qualifiers which can be as much as $20,000.

Jake
 
O.K. I will just make it simple

ShootingArts said:
nfty9er,

Have you ever played pool before? I mean on a real table, not the Internet?

A bank champion will always be a far better player at any game involving a pool table than someone who isn't competent to set up a simple bank shot and then make that easy bank shot.

You apparently have no concept of what is needed to make a bank shot or a bank shot champion. The word is fundamentals. Let's see, the bank shot champion has to have exceptional aiming ability because errors are multiplied. They have to have excellent speed control because speed has a significant effect on banking angle. They also have to have excellent cue ball control after the hit to set up the next bank. All of these things are of some slight:rolleyes: use in other games!

Simple fact: If two players meet who have the abilities needed to win a IPT qualifier it is extremely unlikely to change the outcome if both bank the eightball or if they both don't. It isn't really that big of a deal. However if they both agree to bank the eight ball and there is a $1000 guaranteed payout for making the eight shooting a bank then the match is worth a lot of money.

I have played where banking the eight was the only way eight ball was played. It cost me exactly one game, the first! Nobody mentioned banking the eight until I shot it straight in the first game. Everyone was indeed playing bank the eight on every table and I simply wrote it off as a local custom just like other local rules I have encountered.

I am just an old man, blind in one eye and can't see out of the other and I have a major gimp in my giddy-up. However anytime you want to propose a game, have at it. I figure if I bank the eight and you don't that should be worth you spotting a few games on the wire as tough as you think banking the eight is!

Hu




QUOTE=nfty9er]First of all bank champions are not necessarily better players in any game.
Most only excel in banks. But if you are crazy enough to play a bank champion bank 8 ball although you are a better player you are nuts. Some people only play 9 ball so how would a bank champion have the advantage on the other 7 balls. Maybe my nose is too big to see past 6 inches. If I can shoot as good as you but am a bank champion. Who is going to win in the long run? I would love to proposition you in a game, you wouldn't be able to figure out I had the best advantage. lol
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[/QUOTE]

If Shannon Daulton played Corey Duel bank 8 ball, who are you going to bet on? I will bet all I got on Shannon will win in the long run. He banks way better than Corey.
Now why would I spot you games since you think I have never played pool. I never said banking was easy it is just some people are better at it than others regardless of how good they play. But if you want to play be a man and play even and quit using the old pool players whining about non existent or exaggerated reasons they can't play even. I am 65, have owned a pool room for 30 years and play jam up. I have played some of the best in the country and would have been a world champion if I had not given it up for the business and family. But now it is tough to keep up with the youngsters but I gamble, do you?
 
I very rarely gamble but I do bet on occasion


now it is tough to keep up with the youngsters but I gamble, do you?[/QUOTE]


I almost never gamble but I do bet on occasion. Come on down to the Big Sleazy and I'll accommodate you, heads up eight ball and we will both bank the eight half of the sets and both shoot it straight in the other half. Over the course of a set it won't make any difference at all as to who wins.

Hu
 
jjinfla said:
You forgot the 12 people Mike played. He beat 7 of them earning $14,000 for himself. The 5 who beat him won entry to the next two qualifiers which can be as much as $20,000.

Jake
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Yep...forgot about Sigels matches. That makes it $68,000 KT personally dropped as an "observer" at one of his qualifiers.:eek: (can you say paid off car(s), paid off student loans,house down payment.....):D

Terry
 
watchez said:
The five best 'bankers' I have seen play the most are Shannon Daulton, Tony Fargo, Jason Miller, Mark Tadd & Mark Jarvis. Shannon & Jason have already won the all-around championship at the DCC, I believe Mark Tadd, the last time he played, swept all 3 tournaments (9 ball, banks, one pocket) at a big event he entered & Fargo & Jarvis can let their 'other' games speak for themselves.
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You are referring to Mark Tadd's great showing at the 1993 Los Angeles Open. He won the Banks and the Nine Ball, but lost in the One Pocket final to Steve Cook.
 
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