Bar Box Players vs. 9-foot Table Players

[selftaut]

I'll admit, playing 9-ball on a bar box has fewer position demands then 8-ball will but the game is still different which makes the requirements different, as well.

The fact is, when you're playing on a 9-foot table, you're going to take certain risks to attain position because pocketing can get very demanding. You want to minimize the number of long shots you take. Any good player will tell you this. There is SOME balance to this - on a 9-footer, there's frequently ample room to play with so if you get on the wrong side of the ball, you can take another route to get to your next shot.

On a barbox, you have to tone down your long routes, accept short-side often and in sum, really try to take advantage of the smaller equipment. If you think the pocketer is going to shoot his way out of trouble, I'll simply tell you that's contrary to what I saw in Vegas. Pocketing is so commonplace on a barbox that rarely do you see a missed shot be the determinant in a set. Often times, games are lost because a player lost the cue-ball.

Also, just because it's a barbox, doesn't mean the pockets are more forgiving. The diamonds used in the BCA Finals were NOT buckets. In fact, as you moved toward the front of the room, the tables got a little tighter and even the easier ones played very true.

I don't know much about the barboxes , but is it the valley or dynamo has the mud cue ball and the diamonds your playing with a red circle? I mean that right there could determine wether someone plays well or not if jumping from one to another.

 

[I rack balls]

Bar boxes must be tight. I lost in Vegas to lesser players. I played some matches on the front tables and DOminated good players because they missed 2 balls. Go to the back room and watch people bank in 8 balls down the rail while I puke out of disgust HAHA The challenge tables were a joke as well, huge pockets like that made me sad. I put a 6 pack on a guy for 10 a game though that was nice lol. But seriously waaaay toooooooo easy.

I am sorry but there are great bar box players and great 9 foot players and IMO it takes much more ability to play on lage tables with aptly sized pockets. You can feed me crap all day but what it boils down to is that there are bar box players that can never be big table champions but every big table champion would/could be a bar box champion if they were just a little less talented.

Eric.

 

[jwilliams]

Transition question...

Let me start by saying this is not to start a flame war...but all of this talk about bar table champions not playing well on a big table got me to wondering, can anybody name a true bar table "CHAMPION" that doesn't play pretty sporty or at least close to World Class speed on a 9 footer.

Personally I can't think of any...(ex. Dave Matlock, Johnny Archer, Keith McCready, James Barracks, Jessie Bowman, Gabe Owen, etc. etc.) All of these guys played or still do play on bar tables and those that have transitioned over to the nine foot tables have met with a lot of success...obviously some more than others, but none of them are what I'd consider helpless on a nine footer!

 

[CaptainHook]

I like to play on all three of the popular table sizes.
At the Flamingo the 4' X 9' Gold Crown is in the front room, and they have two bar boxes on the other side of the bar. The bar boxes are only .50
If someone is matched up in a game on the front table, I go play on the bar box tables, the bar is spilt into two different groups, the guys that play on the bar boxes are mostly the league players and only one of them ever comes to the front room to match up, out of all the front room guys,
I am the only one that also plays on the bar box, as I am friends with both groups. I am not in a league.

At the Sunshine center, where I go at Lunchtime, the tables are 4' X 8'.

I like to play on the different size tables with different style cloth, it makes you adjust fast to the speed of each table. Switching table size or cues is fun to me.

 

[ironman]

Let me start by saying this is not to start a flame war...but all of this talk about bar table champions not playing well on a big table got me to wondering, can anybody name a true bar table "CHAMPION" that doesn't play pretty sporty or at least close to World Class speed on a 9 footer.

Personally I can't think of any...(ex. Dave Matlock, Johnny Archer, Keith McCready, James Barracks, Jessie Bowman, Gabe Owen, etc. etc.) All of these guys played or still do play on bar tables and those that have transitioned over to the nine foot tables have met with a lot of success...obviously some more than others, but none of them are what I'd consider helpless on a nine footer!

There is a lot of truth here. Give the big table player who is a champ a little time, and he will at worst hold his own against any BB player. The reeerse is a different story altogether.

 

[crawfish]

Agreed.

There is a lot of truth here. Give the big table player who is a champ a little time, and he will at worst hold his own against any BB player. The reeerse is a different story altogether.

Good point. There is a guy near Asheville that has beat on me for quite some time on the bb. I gave him the eight on a Gold Crown and just ran over him.

 

[mikeiniowa]

Bar boxes must be tight. I lost in Vegas to lesser players. I played some matches on the front tables and DOminated good players because they missed 2 balls. Go to the back room and watch people bank in 8 balls down the rail while I puke out of disgust HAHA The challenge tables were a joke as well, huge pockets like that made me sad. I put a 6 pack on a guy for 10 a game though that was nice lol. But seriously waaaay toooooooo easy.

I am sorry but there are great bar box players and great 9 foot players and IMO it takes much more ability to play on lage tables with aptly sized pockets. You can feed me crap all day but what it boils down to is that there are bar box players that can never be big table champions but every big table champion would/could be a bar box champion if they were just a little less talented.

Eric.

maybe we played? at bca somebody from mich. put a six pack on me for 10 a game.

I agree completely. I thought the tables played way too easy. I saw way too many balls that would have hung on the diamond bar tables that I play on here in my town. I thought a top player would run over those tables and sure enough they did.

When I watched svb and dennis play, they each missed one ball in 3 hours. I saw kirkwood play perfect for an hour and a half. hell I even had a six pack and i suck.

I was surprised when a couple times players commented on how the tables were tough. maybe compared to a crap box valley. but if you play on good 9 footers these were a joke. the conditions were almost too perfect. straight, accurate and fast cloth.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I don't know much about the barboxes , but is it the valley or dynamo has the mud cue ball and the diamonds your playing with a red circle? I mean that right there could determine wether someone plays well or not if jumping from one to another.

Dynamos and Valleys are known for being rather easy but that's not always the case. The Diamonds have squared pockets so on the whole, they're going to be tougher to play on.

As for cueballs, Diamonds can use anything. The others use either a magnetic or weighted cueball.

 

[hippiepool]

hippie clarification ...

eight ball is easier on a big table
nineball is easier on a bar table
the difference is playing style....you move differently for instance in barbox nineball than in big table nineball...

 

[JCIN]

Holy S!#T!!!

Hippie and I agree on somehing.

I am gonna go buy a lottery ticket

You're up for half if I win.

 

[Bugz]

At the National events this year, we (BCA, VNEA) used the 7' Diamond Smart Tables. Many didn't realize it, but 100 of those tables for the amateur event had the 4 1/2" pockets. The rest were 4 9/16". My local pool hall has 9' Brunswick Gold Crowns with nearly 4 3/4" pockets. Do the math.

All of the tables at the Nationals had the faster worsted cloth. My local pool hall with the 9' Brunswick tables do not. That is, pocket size and cloth do not a bar table make.

A bar box is the size. Many table manufacturers make whatever they want for pockets. That's why we need standardization. Some pockets are just too big. But, that's true for all tables, regardless of the size. All Dynamo and Valley bar boxes, the side pockets are much smaller than a 9' table. I'll guess up to a full inch smaller. Do the math.

I think that those who get to play and watch at the Nationals get to see what the difference is between excellent bar table pool vs. excellent pool player playing on bar table. Too many people (who don't go to these events) judge their game on a bar pool based on shotmaking and based on playing the local scene. If that's your take, you need an enlightening.

As Jude said, the top bar box players put mucho effort in getting perfect cueball control and precision. The table is entirely too cluttered to get the sloppy patterns afforded by a larger table.

On this board, many people haven't given the bar box skill the respect it deserves... until they go to a National amateur event or a bar table event that features the top bar box players. And they come on here and report their change of view.

Fred

AMEN!


We have 7 Diamond Smarts in the bar I play out of. I will admit that the visiting teams that play on valleys do struggle with the deep pockets. People devolp bad habits on the valleys and the holes in their game can be seen clearly at the Team tournies and bars with Diamonds.

Cueballs:

In 2 years of playing APA, and well over a 100 matches I've played with a mudball twice.

Most bar owners have the aramith magnetic cueball and if not I have 2 in my bag.

 

[jay helfert]

The bar box was designed to allow people to pocket balls easier, so that games would be shorter so that you would deposit more money into them quicker.

Actually the barbox was designed to fit in bars with limited space.

 

[Johnnyt]

in some areas they went over big in bars where no pool tables were aloud. The coin opperateds were considered vending machines. Johnnyt

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

At the National events this year, we (BCA, VNEA) used the 7' Diamond Smart Tables. Many didn't realize it, but 100 of those tables for the amateur event had the 4 1/2" pockets. The rest were 4 9/16". My local pool hall has 9' Brunswick Gold Crowns with nearly 4 3/4" pockets. Do the math.

All of the tables at the Nationals had the faster worsted cloth. My local pool hall with the 9' Brunswick tables do not. That is, pocket size and cloth do not a bar table make.

A bar box is the size. Many table manufacturers make whatever they want for pockets. That's why we need standardization. Some pockets are just too big. But, that's true for all tables, regardless of the size. All Dynamo and Valley bar boxes, the side pockets are much smaller than a 9' table. I'll guess up to a full inch smaller. Do the math.

I think that those who get to play and watch at the Nationals get to see what the difference is between excellent bar table pool vs. excellent pool player playing on bar table. Too many people (who don't go to these events) judge their game on a bar pool based on shotmaking and based on playing the local scene. If that's your take, you need an enlightening.

As Jude said, the top bar box players put mucho effort in getting perfect cueball control and precision. The table is entirely too cluttered to get the sloppy patterns afforded by a larger table.

On this board, many people haven't given the bar box skill the respect it deserves... until they go to a National amateur event or a bar table event that features the top bar box players. And they come on here and report their change of view.

Fred

Thank you Fred. This is exactly my point. Until you've played barbox pool IN VEGAS and not at your local tavern, you pretty much have no perspective to base an opinion. The big tournaments attract some amazing players and it's NOT as easy as the top barbox players make it look. You have to understand and appreciate that everyone doesn't miss so the determinant is losing the cue-ball. In fact, I am not surprised I didn't see any of the top 9-ball players venture to the practice room AT ALL. That isn't to say they would be out-matched. In fact, I think they'd do pretty well. All I'm saying is, none of them looked at those tables and thought it was easy action.

In the end, playing barbox can be a GREAT learning experience since you are FORCED to make sure you pocket the ball you're shooting AND get position - a fact MANY 9-foot 9-ball players tend to forget. Your position play has to be creative and it has to be precise. Often times, you'll find yourself doing things you simply would never even consider playing on a 9-footer.

 

[rackem]

That's barbox

Yep more kisses and caroms. More combos also. Kind of Contact Pool also using balls for backstop .