Bar Box pool; Is it "real" pool?

[Banks]

First off, I'm a barbox player and damn proud of it. If it wasn't for the bar a couple blocks away, I'd probably still be an average bar player. I have a friend that learned on a 9, while I've learned on the barbox (sorry I don't have the same amount of money to spend learning as some of you do, my bad I guess). We play about even on the 9s, but on the barbox I can usually take him hands down. If it's such a joke, why doesn't he do better? The same goes for a lot of them.

Hell, ask a road player if they're a joke. I'm sure they know they can lose just as easily on either. All of that "barboxes are a joke" crap is simple elitism. Pros can run what, at max 2 more on a barbox? That's not really that big of a difference (especially considering the pro ability), it just means you add a game or so to the set.

Is it just that you can't handle playing on anything that you haven't become accustomed to? Hell, in 1 1/2 years I've learned to be able to shoot on any table with any cue and sometimes with either hand. You learn that and tell me it's a joke. I still need to learn to shoot on 9s because it is a slightly different game.

Maybe the people that rag on barboxes just can't handle them. I only play on 9s about once every couple of months, so I know I'm not as good on those. But that doesn't bother me much, because who the hell in the halls will know some guy who spent all his time in a bar after another year of practice?

To me, pool IS like golf.. you can either learn how to play for any course that you're on, or just learn 1. You tell me which is the real way to play.

On a different note.. I heard Pat Schumacher's game has gone downhill with his vision going. He's on one of the plaques (from the 90s, I think) in the bar I play, so I've always got a little motivation there.

And I finally got my own table.. a barbox currently with dead rails and slow felt. I think I'll go practice now.. Oh, and let's see how many pool hall players can still play with a few drinks in them.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

well russ i dont know what to tell you.ill tell you what, ill play the 9ball ghost on a perfect barbox 200 hundred games.then efren can play 200 games on a perfect 9ft and i promise ill run out more games.as a matter of fact ill let you play 200 games on both tables and ill bet you run out way more on the barbox.but since we all know that prop will never happen.im going to simplify it for you.since im the best player in my family im going to give my opinion a little more weight than yours.ive played on both tables alot and to play whats considered world class on both tables requires more skill on the 9ft,period.have you ever noticed the pro tours play on 9ft ,theres a reason for it.it blends cueball control,safes,shotmaking ,breaking, etc,etc together better to showcase a players ability.playing on a twelve ft isnt the answer i think the 9ftshowcases a players ability perfectly.by the way you sound very sure of yourself when you say the bartable takes the same skill,but the only way for you to be sure is if you have that skill.well in short i do have the skill and you know how i got that skill, its by experiencel. so when i say something on the subject of this is harder or better at pool i promise im going to be right more often than you.now im not saying im right at other things ,but at pool i do know when im right and wrong and it cracks me up how people like to tell top players whats right and wrong.you know when i go to the doctor,mechanic,carpenter,golf pro etc ,i listen because they know alot more than me on that subject, but ive noticed alot of people talk to those experts and are always trying to tell them how it is.lol

 

[ironman]

First off, I'm a barbox player and damn proud of it. If it wasn't for the bar a couple blocks away, I'd probably still be an average bar player. I have a friend that learned on a 9, while I've learned on the barbox (sorry I don't have the same amount of money to spend learning as some of you do, my bad I guess). We play about even on the 9s, but on the barbox I can usually take him hands down. If it's such a joke, why doesn't he do better? The same goes for a lot of them.

Hell, ask a road player if they're a joke. I'm sure they know they can lose just as easily on either. All of that "barboxes are a joke" crap is simple elitism. Pros can run what, at max 2 more on a barbox? That's not really that big of a difference (especially considering the pro ability), it just means you add a game or so to the set.

Is it just that you can't handle playing on anything that you haven't become accustomed to? Hell, in 1 1/2 years I've learned to be able to shoot on any table with any cue and sometimes with either hand. You learn that and tell me it's a joke. I still need to learn to shoot on 9s because it is a slightly different game.

Maybe the people that rag on barboxes just can't handle them. I only play on 9s about once every couple of months, so I know I'm not as good on those. But that doesn't bother me much, because who the hell in the halls will know some guy who spent all his time in a bar after another year of practice?

To me, pool IS like golf.. you can either learn how to play for any course that you're on, or just learn 1. You tell me which is the real way to play.

On a different note.. I heard Pat Schumacher's game has gone downhill with his vision going. He's on one of the plaques (from the 90s, I think) in the bar I play, so I've always got a little motivation there.

And I finally got my own table.. a barbox currently with dead rails and slow felt. I think I'll go practice now.. Oh, and let's see how many pool hall players can still play with a few drinks in them.

SO, if I understand, they can take all those 9 footers and stick em straight up their %$@@?
That's all you had to say, stick em straight up their &%$#$%!!!!

 

[Scottster]

John, our generation is going to be cursed by the Bar box. With all of the bar leagues playing on the small box. The majority of these players will not want to progress to the big table because there pride gets in the way, and their heart is not into learning the pure form of pocket billiards.

I will admit that bar box 8 ball can be a tough game due to the smaller area and clusters in an avg. game. Bar box 9-ball is a joke. I have put up a 9-ball package on a barbox that I am not even gonna share the number, because I dont consider it an achievement.

I am proud of my 9-ball 7-pack on a gold crown (the bar box was a bit higher), and am currently working on my 100 ball 14:1 goal on the same equipment (current best =47).

Hopefully, with the IPT it will help the tranformation to the 9 footers we can only hope.

 

[Tarantula]

Tell us how you really feel!

nobody asked my opinion but here goes.bar table pool requires some skill of course.the 9ft is harder overall and takes more knowledge, but just because you can see the next ball on a 9ft does not mean you are inline to runout.also if you take a player who has played all his life on barbox and take a guy whos been on 9ft all his life and let them play the 10ball ghost on each table both players are going to run out nearly everytime on the barbox , but only the 9ft player is going to run out alot on the 9ft.for the record i think bar table pool is a joke.think about this ,if you had a league player that had to run a rack of 9ball with ball in hand ,and your life depended on him getting out or your dead, trust me your going to put him on that little joke,toy,piece of shit,ego helping ,non skill required thing we call a bar table.

Hey John! Don't hold back... Tell us how you really feel! lol I agree with you, hands down.

 

[MasterRacker]

Everyone's talking 9-ball. I would agree that 9 on a bar box is easier than 9 on a 9 footer. Different games take a different blend of skill as well. Becasue of the added crowding, I would suggest that there's at least less difference with 8-ball on either size. What about straight pool? John, have you ever played straight on a bar box? (I'm also referring to decent tables with good cloth - not some piece of crap with 6 inch pockets.) I would imagine straight would take some serious adjustment due to congestion.

 

[UWPoolGod1]

.

On a different note.. I heard Pat Schumacher's game has gone downhill with his vision going. He's on one of the plaques (from the 90s, I think) in the bar I play, so I've always got a little motivation there.

Not fully sure how accurate that is. Pat has still been winning the BCA Masters tourneys at the coast when he shows up including last fall.

1st $1,005 Pat Schumacher
Cascade Pool League
2nd $650 Glenn Atwell
Cascade Pool League

He plays at the tourneys at Halftime in Vancouver on Mondays usually and still does pretty well. He hasn't done as well recently because, well, its a race to two and there are...I would say...on average 5 other BCA Master players playing as well as 10+ other Open-A players who can just as easily get through two racks out of three. Its a tough little tourney and anyone who gets through it has to play near perfect or their toast. Now a longer race to 9 and Pat still plays pretty strong. Just like Glenn Atwell...anyone can get him in a short race to two but in a long race to 9 he consistency will usually get him through.

 

[cueandcushion]

Bar Box pool is real

Yes bar Box pool is real pool.
Just like putt putt golf is real golf.
Just like go kart racing is real racing.
Just like little league is real baseball.
Just like duck pin is real bowling.
Just like ..etc etc etc..

It is just on a different level. But still real pool. Let the bar league players have their own sport and the big table players can have theirs and everyone will be happy. There are different versions of many sports and games and people like to choose the version that is best for them.

 

[Scottster]

Yes bar Box pool is real pool.
Just like putt putt golf is real golf.

It is just on a different level. But still real pool. Let the bar league players have their own sport and the big table players can have theirs and everyone will be happy.

TAP TAP TAP...

 

[Russ Chewning]

since im the best player in my family im going to give my opinion a little more weight than yours.ive played on both tables alot and to play whats considered world class on both tables requires more skill on the 9ft,period.have you ever noticed the pro tours play on 9ft ,theres a reason for it.by the way you sound very sure of yourself when you say the bartable takes the same skill,but the only way for you to be sure is if you have that skill.well in short i do have the skill and you know how i got that skill, its by experiencel. so when i say something on the subject of this is harder or better at pool i promise im going to be right more often than you.now im not saying im right at other things ,but at pool i do know when im right and wrong and it cracks me up how people like to tell top players whats right and wrong.

Okay, so if I am a moron since I personally have never had the free finances or lack of familial responsibilities to play full time, let's ask someone who has. And, someone, I believe, who used to play better than you both on 9 footers and 7 footers.

Let's ask Keith McCready. I'm sure he might be one to comment on whether the better play will win, playing long enough on a barbox.

If by "takes more skill" you mean that when the races are the same, it takes less skill to win on the barbox, I agree. I would say you need to add a couple games to the race to ensure the better player wins. Beyond that, if the races are extended, the better player wins.

I don't care which amateur put up 10 racks in here. If they won major barbox championships, then we'll talk. Dave Matlock, Pat Schumacher, and Kim Davenport win major barbox tourneys with regularity. They must be doing something right, because the money is certainly there to entice the "big table" pros.

I really do not understand how you can say it requires "less skill" than big table play, when the same players keep winning barbox championships. Seems to me if less skill was involved, you would have a lot of different players winning.

But they don't. Why? Let's ask Keith.

Russ

 

[jimmyg]

Arguing just for the sake of arguing never made much sense to me. I think no matter what anyone's personal preferences and habits are, you have to put them aside and listen to the PRO. Not to mention that John's argument is plainly more logical.

 

[Scottster]

. Dave Matlock, Pat Schumacher, and Kim Davenport win major barbox tourneys with regularity. They must be doing something right, because the money is certainly there to entice the "big table" pros.

Russ

If the money is "So Right" in bar box tourneys then why has Matlock currently taken the time to qualify for the IPT (Congrats Dave BTW), and Jesse Bowman trying to qualify as well?

I guess if your content playing bar pool, stick with it and enjoy yourself.

Players that have access to 9 footers and refuse to play on them are just selling themselves short.

 

[sixpack]

Yes bar Box pool is real pool.
Just like putt putt golf is real golf.
Just like go kart racing is real racing.
Just like little league is real baseball.
Just like duck pin is real bowling.
Just like ..etc etc etc..

It is just on a different level. But still real pool. Let the bar league players have their own sport and the big table players can have theirs and everyone will be happy. There are different versions of many sports and games and people like to choose the version that is best for them.

This analogy about bar box pool being analagous to putt-putt golf is completely off. Putt-putt is a completely different game which completely omits several aspects of the full game including driving, chipping, iron shots and even most aspects of putting.

I think the proper analogy would be that the pros play the course from the tips and the hackers play it from the closer tees. Much easier, but still the same game. Would Tiger shoot better from the ladies tee. You bet. Would Annika Sorenstam struggle from the long tees more than the ladies tees, you bet. Can Annika beat Tiger from either tee? No way.

If you're looking for a pool game to compare to putt-putt golf it would probably be 3C or bumper pool, where the ingredients needed to be successful are a completely different mix than pocket billiards, but the games share a similarity in that they are played with a cue.

Cheers,
RC

 

[Scottster]

If you're looking for a pool game to compare to putt-putt golf it would probably be 3C.

Cheers,
RC

IMHO 3C is the purist form of Billiards. To compare 3C to Bar pool or putt putt golf is not a good idea.

Mastery of 3C takes a helluva lot more skill than mastering a bar box.

 

[Travis Bickle]

OK ... how about barbox pool as pitch-and-putt or par-3 course golf, then? No windmills on those little tavern tables, after all.

 

[sixpack]

IMHO 3C is the purist form of Billiards. To compare 3C to Bar pool or putt putt golf is not a good idea.

Mastery of 3C takes a helluva lot more skill than mastering a bar box.

Firstly, I didn't compare them. I said that it would be a more fair comparison because pocket billiards and 3C are completely different games, as are putt-putt and real golf.

The amount of skill it takes is irrelevant. They are different games, just as putt-putt and golf are. In 3C there is no pocketing of balls, position play is completely different, as is safety play. The only similarity is that you're moving things around with a cue and the better you can control that, the better raw goods you have.

Putt-putt golf is a sport in it's own right, there used to be a professional tour, which got more TV time than 3C in the US btw, and the players took the game very seriously. I get the sense that you are disparaging putt-putt golf, when in actuality, it brings into play skills that regular golf doesn't need (like counting to miss the tines on the windmill for instance )

Playing 9B on a 9' vs. a 7' table is NOT a different game. It could be an easier version of the same game, but not different games. You still have to manage clusters, you still have to pocket balls and play safe, you still have to play patterns and control the CB. On a bar table, the biggest difference is that it's easier to pocket balls. Similar to playing golf from the front tees instead of the back makes it easier to keep the ball in the fairway and gives you an easier shot to the green often.

Would it make you more comfortable if I said that Golf = 3C and putt-putt = 9 ball?

Cheers,
RC

 

[Scottster]

Would it make you more comfortable if I said that Golf = 3C and putt-putt = 9 ball?

Cheers,
RC

putt-putt = bar table 9-ball i would agree to that.

9-ball when played by to very good players, amateurs included, becomes a rack contest. This is especially magnified on the bar box. A good rack on a bar box means the wing ball is goin in over 95% of the time. So it ends up like I said a rack contest and constant feuds about the rack.

RC I was not flaming you, I was just giving you fair warning that if one of the 3C players, for some reason, decided to read this thread that comparing 3C to bar pool would really offend them.

 

[sixpack]

putt-putt = bar table 9-ball i would agree to that.

9-ball when played by to very good players, amateurs included, becomes a rack contest. This is especially magnified on the bar box. A good rack on a bar box means the wing ball is goin in over 95% of the time. So it ends up like I said a rack contest and constant feuds about the rack.

RC I was not flaming you, I was just giving you fair warning that if one of the 3C players, for some reason, decided to read this thread that comparing 3C to bar pool would really offend them.

I play 3C and appreciate how difficult it is. I was a little defensive because I almost took the 3C reference out, but decided not to because it illustrated my point the best I thought.

Thanks!
RC

 

[etimmons]

my point exactly .i did not say the players who play on them are a joke i said the tables are.its your own fault if you want to be great at pool then you should get a 9ft.if you just want to be nowhere near pro caliber as you put it then keep playing on the bar table .you know part of the reason asia is so strong at pool is they dont play on bar tables they play on 9ft.you might think i have no class but im right ,the bar table does not teach you how to play like the 9ft period.

John, It seems to me you are making the assumption that everyone wants to play at your level so play on a big table. I would like to you to think of it this way, how many would play on a 9 ft pro diamond league? Not many. We have 50 five man teams in our league and 40 of those have no table runs. The average cue and case cost for the player is 250.00. Without leagues like this one over the country pool would not be on TV and the IPT would not exist because there would be no market. I know you play great golf too. The average for a male league player is 51 yet without him there would be no pro tour because there again would be not market for it. You should thank every league player in both sports because you would not be playing pool, IPT for the money you are and there would be only a few golf courses for you to play on and then you would not be able to afford those. Also the average golf league player spends 550.00 on clubs every three years, that is where the money comes from the the pro players. Earl Timmons

 

[cuetechasaurus]

9-ball on a barbox is an absoloute joke. It's so easy to control a match on a 7footer it's ridiculous. Playing only on a barbox is not good for your pool game, plain and simple. It hurts your accuracy. There are alot of league players that used to be good on 9ft tables, but when they started playing mainly on 7footers, they come back to 9ft tables and can't make a ball to save their life. I know that pool is all about position play, but if your shotmaking accuracy is poor, it's gonna hurt your position play, because the cueball is not contacting exactly where you intend to on the object ball, so it might go in the wrong side of the pocket, and your position can be off by a couple of feet as a result (sorry for the run on sentence).

Barbox 8ball is a different story, however. I'm not sure about pros, but for us amatuers, there is a learning period to play good barbox 8ball. I could play a race to 7 on a barbox playing 8ball, and most times I might miss only one or two balls the whole set, and go hill-hill with someone else, because I hook myself so many times. Remember, 8-ball is the opposite of 9-ball. In 9ball, as you progress thru running a rack, it gets easier and easier, because their is less and less traffic. In 8ball, as you runout (from the break), it gets tougher and tougher, because with each shot you have less balls to shoot at, less options, and of course alot of congestion. Its very typical to run all your balls and hook yourself on your last ball or the 8. So barbox 8ball requires some good strategy and very precise position play. For pros playing barbox 8ball, I think its actually much easier than playing 9ft 8ball, because pros have such perfect position play. So in closing, I guess that it depends on the level of player, on whether 8ball is tougher on a barbox or on a 9footer. For me, I can run out ALOT more racks of 8ball on a 9ft table than I can on a barbox. For 9ball, it's the exact opposite.

FACT: 9ball on a barbox is a joke!