Bar rules question

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
I've just been reading the thread about bangers who say defense and safeties are dirty pool. I couldn't help but notice when most of you talk about bar rules and bangers, you're referring to guys who refuse BiH, call every detail of a shot and don't believe in defense. Where I live bar rules have always meant:
- no shot calling at all
- no BiH
- fouls meaning only loss of turn
- no requirement to hit the rail
- CB on head spot after scratch
- hitting the opponent's ball first is legal if the CB touches a rail first
- defense is perfectly allowed like any other part of the game

Our own equivalent to "no defense allowed" would be the unofficial rule that every player I know accept, which says you shouldn't move an opponent's ball or the 8-ball away from a pocket by hitting it with the CB, only by using one of your balls. If you hit a rail first and then touched the 8 or the opponent's ball using the cue ball, there would be no actual punishment, but it's frowned upon. People say it's kind of like cheating and that only beginners play that way. If it happens by accident no problem then, but doing it on purpose is what we would call "dirty pool".

I feel intrigued by such vast differences between our rules here and the ones used in the US and maybe Western Europe. What triggered that kind of development? Differences in culture, tradition and the local pool situation. The fact that league play isn't nearly so omnipresent here like it is in the States? Also, I wonder what local rules look like in, say, Eastern Asia, or Russia, or South America? Just some of the questions which keep bothering me, so I'd appreciate if someone knows the answers.
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
The ridiculous part of bar rules is that they are not universal. They should be openly posted by the table. They differ from bar to bar.

When I used to play bar pool some places you had to hit the 8 or you lost, other places it didn't matter. Some places the 8 must go clean and some places it didn't matter


There are no set bar rules...................

Kim
 

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
The ridiculous part of bar rules is that they are not universal. They should be openly posted by the table. They differ from bar to bar.

When I used to play bar pool some places you had to hit the 8 or you lost, other places it didn't matter. Some places the 8 must go clean and some places it didn't matter


There are no set bar rules...................

Kim

Of course there is no universal set of bar rules, but what I find intriguing is the scope of differences. I don't think I ever heard of a sport or game which varies so much around the globe. 8 going in clean or not are only details. What I'm talking about here are the contrasts in the very concept of pool, 8 ball in particular. For example, the details of American bar rules often vary in the parts about number of rail contacts, the requirement to hit the 8, balls going in clean or not etc., while the differences here are more about whether you're allowed to hit the balls below the center string or below the headspot-middle pocket line after scratch, or if you can move the CB along the headstring or kitchen part of the long string, or leave it on headspot. While we don't even have the concept of balls "going in clean", you never put the CB on headspot after scratch.
 

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Of course there is no universal set of bar rules, but what I find intriguing is the scope of differences. I don't think I ever heard of a sport or game which varies so much around the globe. 8 going in clean or not are only details. What I'm talking about here are the contrasts in the very concept of pool, 8 ball in particular. For example, the details of American bar rules often vary in the parts about number of rail contacts, the requirement to hit the 8, balls going in clean or not etc., while the differences here are more about whether you're allowed to hit the balls below the center string or below the headspot-middle pocket line after scratch, or if you can move the CB along the headstring or kitchen part of the long string, or leave it on headspot. While we don't even have the concept of balls "going in clean", you never put the CB on headspot after scratch.

Back when this was still America and there was a poolhall in virtually every town,
no matter how small - and almost no tables in bars, the situation was similar. Only
then they were known as 'house rules' and the variations could be significant. There
were the 'unspoken rules' like "never quit winner" "no dirty pool' etc... also.

It seems the better the level of play of a typical player in a given room, the closer they
adhered to Standard Rules.

The first time I had someone tell me you had to "call" if a ball slid in off the cushion,
I actually thought he was joking.

Dale
 

PocketPooler

...............
Silver Member
My first tournament at this bar, my first match of the tournament. No ball in hand. I have the 8 and one of my balls left at the table. 8 in the kitchen, my opponents shot. He shoots my ball in and scratches on purpose to hook me. Kinda irksome, but no big deal... see crap like that all the time in bars. it gets better.

I shoot and didn't hit it.

He drives the cueball smack into the corner pocket. I think WTF is this?! Unbelievable!

I shoot again, make good contact, but the 8 never made it out of the kitchen.

His shot again, drives it right into the corner pocket again. didn't even attempt a shot.

I throw a fit, *****ing about bar B.S. and why you have to play ball in hand. Idiot running the tournament says "rules are rules, There's no penalty for what he's doing."

Well I sit for a minute and make it look like I am lining up every angle just perfect, after all it is my 3rd attempt. My opponent has 2 balls in kitchen locked up together and one about 4 inches outside of the upper corner pocket. I continue to measure my angles, and work the crowd about "rules being rules" and such,

Well, I took the cue and put it right on the spot on the headstring, picked up the 8 out of the kitchen and set it with my hand, right in front of the corner pocket where his ball was. I quoted again, "rules are rules," "no ball in hand."

The place erupted, mixed with boos, and praise. I thought it was pretty smart, and stand by my decision.

Opponent got pissed and quit.
 

MahnaMahna

Beefcake. BEEFCAKE!!
Silver Member
........,,

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1397517908.637316.jpg
 

MahnaMahna

Beefcake. BEEFCAKE!!
Silver Member
Stupid small boat picture, how do I size an image to be huge on here? Feel free to demonstrate.
 

ssbn610g

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, you are in the right place. Have a few beers if you are so inclined and you won't worry about it. Never played a tournament in a bar but for plenty of beer, losers buy. The rules are as varied as there are bars. I think the rules evolve by who plays there and declare them the rules. Even non bar tournaments are evolving and being pushed by some players such as 10 Ball call safety call shot.

Al
 

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
My first tournament at this bar, my first match of the tournament. No ball in hand. I have the 8 and one of my balls left at the table. 8 in the kitchen, my opponents shot. He shoots my ball in and scratches on purpose to hook me. Kinda irksome, but no big deal... see crap like that all the time in bars. it gets better.

I shoot and didn't hit it.

He drives the cueball smack into the corner pocket. I think WTF is this?! Unbelievable!

I shoot again, make good contact, but the 8 never made it out of the kitchen.

His shot again, drives it right into the corner pocket again. didn't even attempt a shot.

I throw a fit, *****ing about bar B.S. and why you have to play ball in hand. Idiot running the tournament says "rules are rules, There's no penalty for what he's doing."

Well I sit for a minute and make it look like I am lining up every angle just perfect, after all it is my 3rd attempt. My opponent has 2 balls in kitchen locked up together and one about 4 inches outside of the upper corner pocket. I continue to measure my angles, and work the crowd about "rules being rules" and such,

Well, I took the cue and put it right on the spot on the headstring, picked up the 8 out of the kitchen and set it with my hand, right in front of the corner pocket where his ball was. I quoted again, "rules are rules," "no ball in hand."

The place erupted, mixed with boos, and praise. I thought it was pretty smart, and stand by my decision.

Opponent got pissed and quit.

That's funny. Pocketing the CB directly on purpose and intentionally pocketing your opponent's balls are considered dirty pool here and we don't do that... except for this one guy. I played him in a bar which has the rule when you're on the 8 you lose if you fail to touch it 3 times in a row which in reality some people use and some don't. The 8 was hanging on my pocket (the right one in the kitchen), and the other guy just blasted the CB directly into a pocket. And there I go, thinking I should just do the same, completely forgetting about the possibility he'll call the 3 times in a row rule. Why would I risk dropping the CB together with the 8 if I can just repeat everything he does until he loses temper first and leaves me a clean shot. And guess what? After I dropped the CB twice after he did he "reminded" me of that marvelous rule. Naturally, I was so p**sed with that whole situation that I completely missed the 8 on the third shot and lost. I've been a little more careful from that day on.
 

staypuff578

Team Ramrod
Silver Member
The most ridiculous thing about bar rules, is that people take them seriously.

I'm talking these folks that swear by them, like they're professionals and win national championships strictly because they used their opponents ball as the first ball in a combo.

"That 8 doesn't count because you didn't call it wobbling the jaws 11 times before it touched the nipple and then slow rolled in against the pocket facing".

Some of the "rules" I hear at bars are out of this world.
 

PocketPooler

...............
Silver Member
I love the bar bangers who "were on the pro TOUR" too . That's a riot! Even better when you smoke 'EM!
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
My first tournament at this bar, my first match of the tournament. No ball in hand. I have the 8 and one of my balls left at the table. 8 in the kitchen, my opponents shot. He shoots my ball in and scratches on purpose to hook me. Kinda irksome, but no big deal... see crap like that all the time in bars. it gets better.

I shoot and didn't hit it.

He drives the cueball smack into the corner pocket. I think WTF is this?! Unbelievable!

I shoot again, make good contact, but the 8 never made it out of the kitchen.

His shot again, drives it right into the corner pocket again. didn't even attempt a shot.

I throw a fit, *****ing about bar B.S. and why you have to play ball in hand. Idiot running the tournament says "rules are rules, There's no penalty for what he's doing."

Well I sit for a minute and make it look like I am lining up every angle just perfect, after all it is my 3rd attempt. My opponent has 2 balls in kitchen locked up together and one about 4 inches outside of the upper corner pocket. I continue to measure my angles, and work the crowd about "rules being rules" and such,

Well, I took the cue and put it right on the spot on the headstring, picked up the 8 out of the kitchen and set it with my hand, right in front of the corner pocket where his ball was. I quoted again, "rules are rules," "no ball in hand."

The place erupted, mixed with boos, and praise. I thought it was pretty smart, and stand by my decision.

Opponent got pissed and quit.

The first time he scratched on purpose, you should have placed the cue ball behind the 8-ball and shot the 8-ball up to near (and hopefully in front of) a corner pocket on the other end of the table, with the cue ball coming off at an angle that would have also left it at the other end of the table, thus not leaving him a decent shot at his two clustered balls at the other end of the table, making him break them out with the other ball, but without BIH....no BIH rule, remember? He would have been screwed without BIH, and your 8-ball would have been sitting right in front of a corner pocket and out of the kitchen.

FWIW...I've seen it where if all the balls (or ball) you have left on the table are in the kitchen and your opponent scratches, the object ball that's not the 8-ball that is closest to the headstring gets spotted. Of course, if the 8-ball is your last ball left, it gets spotted.

Maniac
 
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Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
The way we play it is no BIH. But of you foul, you have to put your Beezer on the rail and your opponent gets to hit it with his cue as hard as he wants.

Trust me, no one fouls at our bar. If they do, they drop the cue and hit the door running.

Then they forfeit the game and table.
 

pletho

NON "ACTION KNOCKER"
Silver Member
I've just been reading the thread about bangers who say defense and safeties are dirty pool. I couldn't help but notice when most of you talk about bar rules and bangers, you're referring to guys who refuse BiH, call every detail of a shot and don't believe in defense. Where I live bar rules have always meant:
- no shot calling at all
- no BiH
- fouls meaning only loss of turn
- no requirement to hit the rail
- CB on head spot after scratch
- hitting the opponent's ball first is legal if the CB touches a rail first
- defense is perfectly allowed like any other part of the game

Our own equivalent to "no defense allowed" would be the unofficial rule that every player I know accept, which says you shouldn't move an opponent's ball or the 8-ball away from a pocket by hitting it with the CB, only by using one of your balls. If you hit a rail first and then touched the 8 or the opponent's ball using the cue ball, there would be no actual punishment, but it's frowned upon. People say it's kind of like cheating and that only beginners play that way. If it happens by accident no problem then, but doing it on purpose is what we would call "dirty pool".

I feel intrigued by such vast differences between our rules here and the ones used in the US and maybe Western Europe. What triggered that kind of development? Differences in culture, tradition and the local pool situation. The fact that league play isn't nearly so omnipresent here like it is in the States? Also, I wonder what local rules look like in, say, Eastern Asia, or Russia, or South America? Just some of the questions which keep bothering me, so I'd appreciate if someone knows the answers.

- no shot calling at all -

The only reason that people do not like calling shots, is that they are accustomed to slop pool. Call shot involved much more skill, the leagues pretty much ruined the old style call shot game

- no BiH

Ball in hand is also a stupid rule, although I use it all the time, the old school was ball in hand in the kitchen, behind the line. Again, leagues and Texas Express Rules for nineball probably caused this rule...

- fouls meaning only loss of turn

A foul was a loss of turn, unless a scratch, then ball in hand behind the line.

- no requirement to hit the rail

If you play a safe, you have to make a legal hit, and safes are a part of the game, although, when I started playing, as legal as it was, it was frowned upon, so people learned to make it look good, by calling one thing and doing another, or making two shots.

- CB on head spot after scratch
Never heard of that one...

- hitting the opponent's ball first is legal if the CB touches a rail first
Never, that would be a foul, at least in tournaments and leagues, but in bar rooms in old time rules, its dirty pool, and by the older rules at least where I played, you lose your turn of course, and probably get scollded for playing dirty pool, which is what that would be, and considering the rules we used to play by, it was, because you did not get ball in hand for fouls of such.... so your stuck shooting out of a dirty play by your opponent.... these causes fights, and probably one reason why other rules were employed such as ball in hand.

- defense is perfectly allowed like any other part of the game
Yep, as long as its done legally.....

Personally, I love call shot, and ball in hand from the kitchen on fouls. It takes waay more skill and no one is going to win by slopping a ball in. Of course call shot means call kisses, caroms, banks, combos, etc... but if your shooting to a corner pocket, and hit the rail before the pocket, within a diamond of the pocket, that is ok, not considered a bank, at least not where I played. Some people think that call shot means you can't do that, but thats not the purpose of call shot, to be anal, but to take the luck and slop out of the play, that most league players play by, which I call bangers.....
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
The way we play it is no BIH. But of you foul, you have to put your Beezer on the rail and your opponent gets to hit it with his cue as hard as he wants.

Trust me, no one fouls at our bar. If they do, they drop the cue and hit the door running.

Then they forfeit the game and table.


What do the women (not including Rhea) have to do when they foul??? ;):thumbup:

Maniac
 
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j_zippel

Big Tuna
Silver Member
The bar rules I've encountered are:

No ball is hand.

No contact on the 8 = lose the game

Call your shot and pocket, included OB touching any other balls along the way

Sewer is always behind the line

8 on the break you lose

You can't make your ball and have another ball go in unless you call it

The bar players hate league rules all together, and I'm not talking APA slop shot, TAP aswell because of ball in hand.

If there was a universal set of rules I'd be ok with playing whatever but the stubbornness is annoying.


In my opinion the TAP rules are the best, I know not everyone agrees with ball in hand and I'm ok with that but it sure does speed the game up, nothing worse then getting done pool league a midnight and having to get up at 5:30 for work





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Rasputin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I feel intrigued by such vast differences between our rules here and the ones used in the US and maybe Western Europe.

Once again dear P&P, pool is played the exact same way in Eastern Europe as it is played in Western Europe and the Americas.

The countries of Balkan did very well in the European Championships played just a week ago, not to mention Russia, Greece and Poland.

If your local bar has its own rules, you should not think that all of your continent plays by those rules.

And shame on you Mahnamahna for the picture size :mad: Here you go:
DSCN1082.JPG
 

9andout

Gunnin' for a 2 pack!!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I remember the first time I saw a BCA rule book.
I looked at the 8 ball rules and immediately thought...........
"Wow these rules make a lot of sense!"
They improve the game and make it more enjoyable IMO.
 
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