Barioni Cues

[7forlife]

Ok, so I don't claim to know everything and hell no one can. I just came across this guy/company/cue maker today for the first time, sooooo.

Do any of you guys have their stuff or know anything about them? I've never heard them mentioned or at least can remember.

 

[TATE]

Ok, so I don't claim to know everything and hell no one can. I just came across this guy/company/cue maker today for the first time, sooooo.

Do any of you guys have their stuff or know anything about them? I've never heard them mentioned or at least can remember.

He posted on here and the thread went sideways, quickly:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=200527

I have not tried one but I would have enjoyed it. I tried to arrange a shaft for AZ testing but it didn't work out.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

His shafts

Ok, so I don't claim to know everything and hell no one can. I just came across this guy/company/cue maker today for the first time, sooooo.

Do any of you guys have their stuff or know anything about them? I've never heard them mentioned or at least can remember.

He was pretty involved into the shaft wood he would use .
He was making non laminated LD shafts and trying to market them.
Please don't take anything I am saying as negative , I have never met him and I have never tried any of his cues .

I do know he was wanting 600.00 per shaft

And I believe at the time predator had the patent on non laminated LD shafts.
He bought a new predator shaft and cut it up on video showing how and what predator was stuffing in there shafts to keep it from sounding like a gong because it was hollow.

He got into a heated debate on here and I haven't seem him post on here for at least 2 to 3 years.

 

[Kim Bye]

I have no idea about his cues, but I`m really puzzled by that raised butt cap, why is that a good thing to have on your cue?

 

[7forlife]

He was pretty involved into the shaft wood he would use .
He was making non laminated LD shafts and trying to market them.
Please don't take anything I am saying as negative , I have never met him and I have never tried any of his cues .

I do know he was wanting 600.00 per shaft

And I believe at the time predator had the patent on non laminated LD shafts.
He bought a new predator shaft and cut it up on video showing how and what predator was stuffing in there shafts to keep it from sounding like a gong because it was hollow.

He got into a heated debate on here and I haven't seem him post on here for at least 2 to 3 years.

hey no need, i'm not a rep or family member or anything.
i literally just heard of this guy a few minutes before the post, and as its always has been i got suspicious when someone claims to have the best or be the first yet not be more popular.

first he was like "we made the wood tip first, then everyone followed" , then he was "our butt is special cause its even" and "best, lowest LD shaft ever", so as is the case with commercials i go " if you're better than the leading brand then why aren't you the leading brand?"

so i came here in the wiki of pool to find out

 

[7forlife]

I have no idea about his cues, but I`m really puzzled by that raised butt cap, why is that a good thing to have on your cue?

Answer: it's like the knot at the end of a rope.

I forgot to mention, that wood ferrule with the butterfly and all that is pretty sweet though, I might make a shaft just because.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

hey no need, i'm not a rep or family member or anything.
i literally just heard of this guy a few minutes before the post, and as its always has been i got suspicious when someone claims to have the best or be the first yet not be more popular.

first he was like "we made the wood tip first, then everyone followed" , then he was "our butt is special cause its even" and "best, lowest LD shaft ever", so as is the case with commercials i go " if you're better than the leading brand then why aren't you the leading brand?"

so i came here in the wiki of pool to find out

His cues look nice enough, but I wouldn't trust his statements about technical features like squirt reduction. His previous thread (5 years ago) showed that he didn't know the facts about that.

pj
chgo

 

[NINEBALLART]

Barioni plays in my BCA league....His whole team uses his cues....There are a couple others also using his cues...I have never hit with one so can't comment on them but those that own one seem to love them...

 

[galipeau]

I've seen them around. I personally dislike the skinny points, and the long handles, and the bulky ringwork, and the wood ferrules that are laminated in a hundred different ways... it just doesn't look good to me. If they play well, that's great, but to me the cues look poorly balanced in terms of design.

Also, the whole "extended tip contact time" is baloney from everything I've read on the subject (keep in mind I'm no expert). It reminds me of when Meucci and some of the pro's were touting zero deflection... they had to adjust that claim pretty quick. I love the passion and the curiosity displayed by the CM, and this is NOT a personal attack. I have no agenda, it's just a personal opinion on what I feel makes a good looking cue, and why wouldn't buy into the Barioni sales pitch on LD shafts. I've seen him at tournaments, and he seems like a nice guys, but it's not my cup of tea.

 

[Barioni Cues]

The flare at the end of the cue serves a few purposes. First, I was not the inventor. I first saw this in The Blue Book of Pool Cues from cue builder Perry Weston back in 2002. I loved the look. In my opinion, it finished the cue. Sort of like the end of a sword or knife. Walking canes and even silverware, forks, spoons, etc. has a flare or something at the end. I later learned that Sailor cues also did this and may have been the first to do it. Well as I adopted the idea, I learned that it came in pretty handy when your stretched out on a shot and don't have a lot of handle to hold on to. Also if you hold your cue loose, you don't have to worry about the cue slipping out of your hand, especially those of you that hold the cue on the butt sleeve. On my cues, it also plays a part in the hit and feel. My rubber bumper has a close fit and it kind of mimics a Limb Saver! That flare stuffed with a rubber bumper kind of acts like a vibration dampener. After making 500 plus cues since 2003, Most of my customers demand this feature, how ever my cues are available with the standard/ traditional, non-flared butt cap.

 

[Barioni Cues]

Ok, so I don't claim to know everything and hell no one can. I just came across this guy/company/cue maker today for the first time, sooooo.

Do any of you guys have their stuff or know anything about them? I've never heard them mentioned or at least can remember.

www.barionicues.com

Here is the link to our web site. All our cues are robot tested. We have done extensive studies and tests regarding deflection. If you have questions regarding cue ball squirt or cue ball deflection, I will be glad to answer the questions here.

 

[Barioni Cues]

I've seen them around. I personally dislike the skinny points, and the long handles, and the bulky ringwork, and the wood ferrules that are laminated in a hundred different ways... it just doesn't look good to me. If they play well, that's great, but to me the cues look poorly balanced in terms of design.

Also, the whole "extended tip contact time" is baloney from everything I've read on the subject (keep in mind I'm no expert). It reminds me of when Meucci and some of the pro's were touting zero deflection... they had to adjust that claim pretty quick. I love the passion and the curiosity displayed by the CM, and this is NOT a personal attack. I have no agenda, it's just a personal opinion on what I feel makes a good looking cue, and why wouldn't buy into the Barioni sales pitch on LD shafts. I've seen him at tournaments, and he seems like a nice guys, but it's not my cup of tea.

Sounds like your talking about some of my earlier cues, I now make them with fatter points or any style the buyer would like. Same with the ring work. The buyer has so many options. The buyer also can pick what ever ferrule he wants. You can basically design your cue off our web site with many, many options.
As for the extended tip contact time, I still stand behind that. I can and have proved it. Your welcome to come by our shop and I will be glad to show you. I will try to explain it here if I can. Any time the tip or shaft gives, flexes, or compresses, the contact time increases. Imagine a sponge for a tip. The hole time that sponge is compressing, the tip remains in contact. On the other hand, if you have a rock hard phenolic tip, the cue ball leaves immediately. A soft tip stays in contact just a hair or nano second longer than a hard tip. A shaft that gives or flexes stays in contact just a hair longer. A stiff shaft and hard tip make the cue ball leave the fastest and that is why that combination works so well for a jump cue.

 

[galipeau]

I don't know if you maintain this stance, but in the older thread linked above, you mention drawing inspiration from "corked" baseball bats... Are you aware that lightened baseball bats are proven to be less effective in hitting the ball longer distances than unmodified traditional bats?

While the physics behind pool are a bit different than baseball, I think it would be interesting to see slow motions video that verifies your claims on tip contact time. I admire your dedication to your work, but I like to see actual numbers verified when claims are made. OB and those guys are pushing for more standardized numbers to be advertised in the LD market. I think this would very helpful to buyers in the pool market.

Also, I'm in the Bay Area, maybe I'll see you at the big Jointed Cue tournament in December. It would be cool to check out your cues in person.

 

[King T]

Nice Cues, they play good.

I've had a few of his Cues and they play good. I brought and sold a lot of cues over the past 16yrs and I came across a few Barioni Cues, I wasn't sure about them at first, but the ones I sold never came back, they were no complaints and they played good, and the craftsmanship was good too.

I haven't seen one in a good while, but my experience was good with them.

My only word of caution when buying Cues..., If you going to spend good money, $1000.00 plus, make sure it plays to your taste or make sure it has good resale value!

 

[Barioni Cues]

His cues look nice enough, but I wouldn't trust his statements about technical features like squirt reduction. His previous thread (5 years ago) showed that he didn't know the facts about that.

pj
chgo

Not sure what I stated 5 years ago and to busy to look it up. What I can say is this. I work on a lot of high end cues, Gina's, Tads, Hunters, just to name a few. I remember when I got laughed off this forum for saying I have Tuned LD shafts for $525. This was quite a few years ago when some of the most expensive shafts on the market was going for $250-275. Since then I have sold over 100 of those $525 shafts. No one hardly even buys the regular shafts any more. I think I might have sold no more than 20 in the last 4 years. The statements must have been correct because I sure am selling a lot of shafts and modifying a lot of big name cues. A lot has happened in the last 5 years. I have sponsored a couple of pro's, you can see these on our website and links to some matches. In working with some of the top players, I learned quite a few things. One thing is, there is no such thing as a perfect cue. What is perfect to one is not perfect to another. Squirt and Deflection has many misleading concepts and is often used as a ploy for marketing. Top players apply side spin (English) differently. Some that were taught by old school teachers use a pivot system. This pivot system is still used today but is fading out. This pivot system is very accurate but does not work well with low deflection cues. It was invented back when people used old school equipment and technology. Custom made and scientifically tested LD shafts have been our focus for years now. The lowest deflecting shafts are not always the best shaft. It depends on a few factors. I can produce a shaft that the deflection is so small or even non existent. I miss balls with such a shaft because now I am missing because I am throwing object ball off line. Imagine all that spin on the cue ball going in a perfect straight line. When it makes contact with the object ball, it throughs it off line missing the pocket. A little deflection is in most cases desirable because the right amount of deflection cancels out through. Getting the right amount of deflection is where the trick is. It is not the same for all shafts and that is why it can not be mass produced. The reason it is not the same for all shafts is because all shafts are different. Each shaft is unique in weight, density, stiffness, number of growth rings, space between the growth rings, etc. That is where tuning comes in. Tuning is a process of measuring the power and amount of squirt or deflection a particular shaft produces and then modifying it to correct its play ability. The easiest shaft to play with is one that acts the same way for spin as it does center ball. If you can aim the same, and not worry about deflection or through, then pool becomes easier. You still need some time to get used to playing with a shaft like this and it is not magical. It will not make you a pro. What it will do is allow you to pocket balls with spin just as accurate as you can pocket balls using center ball.

Also just a note: I am not trying to sell you any thing here. I am not taking any new orders and have not been for over 2 years now. It will probably be yet another year before I can take any new orders. I don't want to come across as a know it all, because I don't know it all. I learn something all the time. Just trying to clarify a few posts here. I have not been on AZ for quite some time. I got a message this morning saying I have been mentioned on AZ and to check it out.

 

[Barioni Cues]

I don't know if you maintain this stance, but in the older thread linked above, you mention drawing inspiration from "corked" baseball bats... Are you aware that lightened baseball bats are proven to be less effective in hitting the ball longer distances than unmodified traditional bats?

While the physics behind pool are a bit different than baseball, I think it would be interesting to see slow motions video that verifies your claims on tip contact time. I admire your dedication to your work, but I like to see actual numbers verified when claims are made. OB and those guys are pushing for more standardized numbers to be advertised in the LD market. I think this would very helpful to buyers in the pool market.

Also, I'm in the Bay Area, maybe I'll see you at the big Jointed Cue tournament in December. It would be cool to check out your cues in person.

I remember the corked bat theory. In my study and findings which is with pool cues, it is hard to compare lightened baseball bats and them being proven to be less effective in hitting the ball longer distances than unmodified traditional bats because every modified bat plays differently and so does unmodified traditional bats. If it is so, I am not sure why the corked bats are illegal to use. Any way, I am no bat expert. I know that when I drill a shaft it does make it easier to draw the ball. If you play at Edgies in Milpitas, See Tracy Wong. He has a Bobby Hunter. I just finished corking and tuning both of his Hunter shafts. Before he could not draw back more than about 5 feet. Now he is consistently drawing 9 feet and pocketing the ball. Also talk to Jaynard. He also has been here and I have done some work for him too. I hope to go to the Jointed Cue again this year. I love that place, especially the tournament room. Your close enough to come by the shop though. You should check it out. You could stop by on the way to the Mezz tour stop # 14 in Fresno, CA. Take care.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Not sure what I stated 5 years ago and to busy to look it up.

Here's an example:
"...bending or flexing of the shaft allows the cue ball to go straighter decreasing cue ball deflection."

This has been shown to not be true. Flexible shafts can create more squirt than stiffer ones, although that's not a rule either (it really just depends on end mass).

This doesn't affect the quality or value of your cues, or mean that they're not really low deflection - you seem to do the right things to make them low deflection, even if you got a few of the details wrong in your explanation.

pj
chgo

P.S. Here's that old thread (linked in a post above): http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=200527

 

[tucson9ball]

Here's an example:
"...bending or flexing of the shaft allows the cue ball to go straighter decreasing cue ball deflection."

This has been shown to not be true. Flexible shafts can create more squirt than stiffer ones, although that's not a rule either (it really just depends on end mass).

This doesn't affect the quality or value of your cues, or mean that they're not really low deflection - you seem to do the right things to make them low deflection, even if you got a few of the details wrong in your explanation.

pj
chgo

P.S. Here's that old thread (linked in a post above): http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=200527

Patrick, I think your getting deflection confused with time of contact. He was saying that a softer tip and flexible shaft made for a longer contact time.
This would have to ne measured in 10's of thousandths but I would have to agree. This is why our jump cues have stiff shafts and phenolic/hard tips. It causes the tip to have a very short contact time and the cue ball jumps. Of course it has to be practiced a bit also

 

[Barioni Cues]

Here's an example:
"...bending or flexing of the shaft allows the cue ball to go straighter decreasing cue ball deflection."

This has been shown to not be true. Flexible shafts can create more squirt than stiffer ones, although that's not a rule either (it really just depends on end mass).

This doesn't affect the quality or value of your cues, or mean that they're not really low deflection - you seem to do the right things to make them low deflection, even if you got a few of the details wrong in your explanation.

pj
chgo

P.S. Here's that old thread (linked in a post above): http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=200527

OK, I still stand behind this. "...bending or flexing of the shaft allows the cue ball to go straighter decreasing cue ball deflection."
I can prove this and have proved this. It is very true. I will put my money where my mouth is here and have the ability to prove it. But your right that flexible shafts can create more squirt than stiffer ones, although that's not a rule either (it really just depends on end mass). In my study, the only way a stiff shaft can have less cue ball deflection than a flexible shaft is if the end mass was less. I can take any cue shaft and make it have less cue ball deflection by making the shaft more flexible except in the case where the maximum amount of flex has already been achieved or maybe I should say the minimum amount of cue ball deflection has been achieved. This is one of the things I do every day to squeeze out more deflection out of a shaft. You have to be careful here though because you can make a shaft to flexible and it will loose power.
Typically I try to make my shafts flexible only to the point where they start to loose power. I try to keep the most power in the shaft that I can. To flexible and it hits spongy.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...In my study, the only way a stiff shaft can have less cue ball deflection than a flexible shaft is if the end mass was less.

I agree with this - but I think it's the only way any shaft can have less cue ball deflection.

I can take any cue shaft and make it have less cue ball deflection by making the shaft more flexible

By making it skinnier (thereby reducing end mass)?

Dr. Dave knows more about this than I do - here's what he has to say about end mass and stiffness.

pj
chgo