BCA Hall of Fame discussion

Who do you think?

  • David Howard

    Votes: 6 16.2%

  • Jimmy Mataya

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Jimmy Reid

    Votes: 3 8.1%

  • Keith MCcready

    Votes: 8 21.6%

  • Jack Breit

    Votes: 4 10.8%

  • Mieko Harada

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • John Fitzpatrick

    Votes: 1 2.7%

  • CJ Wiley

    Votes: 2 5.4%

  • Grady Mathews

    Votes: 12 32.4%

  • Wade Crane

    Votes: 1 2.7%
  • Total voters
    37
Doesn't it seem a bit strange that with so many views of this post (I think a thousand or so if I'm reading it correctly) that there are only 17 votes in the poll as of this writing? Am I missing something?
 
L.S. Dennis said:
Doesn't it seem a bit strange that with so many views of this post (I think a thousand or so if I'm reading it correctly) that there are only 17 votes in the poll as of this writing? Am I missing something?
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There would have been a lot more if “none of the above” had been one of the choices.
 
JAM said:
Interesting thread. Well, I guess as Keith McCready's other half, I will weigh in on this poll and the subject matter at hand.

First, Keith and I both are so very grateful to Steve Booth for having a category that fit Keith to a tee in the One Pocket Hall of Fame, which is the Lifetime of Pool in Action award. If anybody is deserving of this category, it is Keith McCready.

Keith has never been a tournament soldier as are most, if not all, of the other BCA Hall of Fame pool players. The tournament venues for Keith most times were a gathering place. He was more in tune with the after-hours activities than the tournament itself. That was his bailiwick. When he was competing in a tournament, he was known for comedically interacting with the audience during his matches. The more involved the audience was, the better Keith would play. But make no mistake about it, no one in the tournament wanted to draw Keith's name on the charts because one didn't know which Keith would show up for the match, the Keith that wants to entertain the railbirds with his gift of gab and could run six-packs or the Keith who had been up all night gambling and had no sleep.

There are two kinds of pool people in our pool world, the pool purists and the action enthusiasts. Keith's style of play does not fall into the category of pool purists, which I think the majority of BCA Hall of Fame contenders do fall into. Keith was not liked by pool purists because of his antics and his lifestyle, which has been compared to poker star Stu Unger, yet when there was a big tournament, even the pool players themselves would come to watch Keith compete because he was fun to watch. At the 2003 U.S. Open, Efren Reyes and Francisco Bustamante's match on the live stream table had to stop because everyone in the audience was watching Keith v. Alex Pagulayan on a side table, even Efren and Bustie. Nobody knows what's going to fly out of his mouth, which makes him entertaining. Unlike Stu Unger, Keith survived his early years, thank goodness, and I know he would not be alive today if we had not met.

One of Keith's largest contributions to pool, as most know, was his role as Grady Seasons in "The Color of Money." To this day, even in 2023, he still gets asked to repeat his famous line, "It's like a nightmare, isn't it?" It was the perfect role for a pool player of Keith's ilk to play, and he did it to a tee, even ad-libbing a few lines which were kept in the movie by Martin Scorsese.

I could add a lot more to The Keith McCready Story, but I'll end it here to say Keith most definitely contributed to the legacy American pool in its golden years. His legacy is more akin to the style of Minnesota Fats. Today is a new era in pool, of course, and we'll see where Matchroom, Predator, and CSI take it. It won't be robotic tournament soldiers playing mum pool, and it won't be the road warriors and action players. I do look forward to see where it goes and hope I'm still alive to watch it grow.

If you all have read my post up to this point, I'd like to nominate Jeremy Jones to the list. He's, I think, 51 years old today. I'm not sure what the BCA Hall of Fame qualifications are, but if age is not a requirement, Jeremy would be a great candidate for consideration to the BCA's Hall of Fame.

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I was at Keith’s HOF induction dinner😍💪
 
sjm said:
There would have been a lot more if “none of the above” had been one of the choices.
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I’m not brave enough to name any, but in my opinion there are some in the HOF that in my mind are questionable as to whether they deserve to be there.

The BCA HOF has clearly in my opinion become watered down in the last decade or two, not unlike the baseball HOF. That is the best argument for why some of those players listed above might deserve serious consideration.
 
ChrisinNC said:
I’m not brave enough to name any, but in my opinion there are some in the HOF that in my mind are questionable as to whether they deserve to be there.

The BCA HOF has clearly in my opinion become watered down in the last decade or two, not unlike the baseball HOF. That is the best argument for why some of those players listed above might deserve serious consideration.
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Your view, of course, is an extremely well-informed one, but I don’t agree. On top of that, with players like Ga Young Kim, Niels Feijen, SVB, and Corey Deuel waiting in the wings, I wonder whether the door is even ajar for some of the long shots any time soon.
 
Of that list, David Howard was probably the most successful tournament player. He had a long career, playing in all the biggest events and was always a strong contender. Definitely a top ten player all that time. Say what you want, but 64 to 128 man charts were stacked with champions.

Try going through a line up of Mizerak, Sigel, Varner, Hopkins, Buddy, Martin, Massey, W. Crane, Rempe, Davenport, Reid, Incardona, Mataya, Fusco, Ellin, Archer, Earl, Efren, Luat, Parica, Carter, Keith, Lebron, Butera, Marino, Diliberto, Mathews, Wiley, Wetch, R. Pierce, and on and on. If you could beat that field once or twice a year, you were a great player!
 
sjm said:
Your view, of course, is an extremely well-informed one, but I don’t agree. On top of that, with players like Ga Young Kim, Niels Feijen, SVB, and Corey Deuel waiting in the wings, I wonder whether the door is even ajar for some of the long shots any time soon.
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Stu, certainly the resume for those four above you mention are unquestionably HOF worthy. All of their credentials and major titles are considerably more numerous and impressive than a number of players already inducted.

Stu, just curious, are you on the HOF selection committee, as I don’t see your name among the 22 USBMA members? If not, with your vast knowledge of the game and virtually all the significant players past and present, you certainly should be.

I can certainly understand and respect that due to your friendships with a number of the players, why you might choose not to be on that committee.
 
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raphcleary said:
I've been extensively looking through the National Billiard News archives, these players have caught my eye for being some notable great players. Are these players worthy of the recognition or not? Any other past players I have not listed?
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Another name that’s also in consideration is The Nightmare, Mary Kenniston. She has several WPBA titles as well as a World 9-ball Championship in 1989. She was a champion in the same era as her peers Loree Jon, Robin, Ewa and Belinda, who are all BCA HoFers. If we look at the case of Belinda, I think Mary’s résumé is better than hers. She was also one of the early pioneers for women poolplayers.

The BCA also recognize trick shot artists in the Greatest Players category, so current and future considerations could be:

Paul Gerni
Florian Kohler
Stefano Pelinga (already on the nomination list)
 
sjm said:
PS I couldn't think of a player who dominated and then fell off pro pool's map. Did you have anyone in mind?
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i think if we replace “dominated” with “was an elite player,” then CJ Wiley fits that bill. At times, he definitely dominated, but his peak was a span of about two years, before he slipped back away from the tournament scene.

Tom Jennings won the US Open 14.1 back to back in the late 70’s. Did he seem dominant in those two years.? He slipped off the radar long before I followed pool. Every US Open 14.1 winner up until 2000 is in the HoF except for Jennings.

Did Ginky fit the bill for someone that was at least elite for a time? Obviously in Ginky’s case, his passing was the abrupt end of a brilliant career. He would have been that bridge of old guard to new guard.
 
FYI, here are the inductees over the last 20 years or so (thanks to Wikipedia). A small dot after the name seems to mean "Meritorious Service".

2000–2022​

 
sjm said:
Your view, of course, is an extremely well-informed one, but I don’t agree. On top of that, with players like Ga Young Kim, Niels Feijen, SVB, and Corey Deuel waiting in the wings, I wonder whether the door is even ajar for some of the long shots any time soon.
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It does seem like the list of upcoming players is pretty much full given the eligibility/age requirements.

There are the four you listed, plus Carlo Biado and Jasmin Ouschan. I also think that JL Chang gets in. That would take us through 2029. From there, a floodgate of elite players become eligible.

2030: Big Ko and Wu
2031: Jayson Shaw and Albin Ouschan
2032: FSR
2033: Han Yu
2034: Siming Chen and Sky Woodward (I think he needs a legit major for consideration, but this gives him a decade to get one)

Assuming only one player per year gets in (which seems to be the trend lately based on Bob's post above), 8 eligible players will cover 2030-2037. By then, Little Ko and then Filler are eligible. Then, Kaci and Gorst.

Now we're projecting way out into the future, but assuming career trajectories remain as they are, it looks like we can reasonably predict how the selections will go for almost the next two decades!

Of course, there will likely be some surprises along the way, and some players may come out of nowhere to make a case for themselves. I doubt anyone would have pegged FSR as a HoFer as recently as early 2022, but now he's a lock, IMO.
 
sjm said:
Your view, of course, is an extremely well-informed one, but I don’t agree. On top of that, with players like Ga Young Kim, Niels Feijen, SVB, and Corey Deuel waiting in the wings, I wonder whether the door is even ajar for some of the long shots any time soon.
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I realize my issue with some of the female inductees is due to the mistake I’m making of comparing their records to Jean, Allison and Loree Jon, which I admit is not fair to them and not realistic.

That would be like trying to measure the worthiness of most of the male HOF members to players like Mosconi, Lassiter, Sigel, Strickland and Reyes.
 
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jay helfert said:
Of that list, David Howard was probably the most successful tournament player. He had a long career, playing in all the biggest events and was always a strong contender. Definitely a top ten player all that time. Say what you want, but 64 to 128 man charts were stacked with champions.

Try going through a line up of Mizerak, Sigel, Varner, Hopkins, Buddy, Martin, Massey, W. Crane, Rempe, Davenport, Reid, Incardona, Mataya, Fusco, Ellin, Archer, Earl, Efren, Luat, Parica, Carter, Keith, Lebron, Butera, Marino, Diliberto, Mathews, Wiley, Wetch, R. Pierce, and on and on. If you could beat that field once or twice a year, you were a great player!
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Agree about David Howard, still would like to see Jack B. Jersey Red given some more consideration.
 
BlueRaider said:
It does seem like the list of upcoming players is pretty much full given the eligibility/age requirements.

There are the four you listed, plus Carlo Biado and Jasmin Ouschan. I also think that JL Chang gets in. That would take us through 2029. From there, a floodgate of elite players become eligible.

2030: Big Ko and Wu
2031: Jayson Shaw and Albin Ouschan
2032: FSR
2033: Han Yu
2034: Siming Chen and Sky Woodward (I think he needs a legit major for consideration, but this gives him a decade to get one)

Assuming only one player per year gets in (which seems to be the trend lately based on Bob's post above), 8 eligible players will cover 2030-2037. By then, Little Ko and then Filler are eligible. Then, Kaci and Gorst.

Now we're projecting way out into the future, but assuming career trajectories remain as they are, it looks like we can reasonably predict how the selections will go for almost the next two decades!

Of course, there will likely be some surprises along the way, and some players may come out of nowhere to make a case for themselves. I doubt anyone would have pegged FSR as a HoFer as recently as early 2022, but now he's a lock, IMO.
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Top vote getter gets in, and anyone who was named on at least 75% of the vote also gets in.
 
Cornerman said:
Write up a good case. Send it in. Kim Davenport was a good study. Most committee members didn’t really consider him until presented with the information from the written information that came from the nomination. Rik Graham did that campaigning legwork, and sent me the bio. The Veterans Committee did their thing.
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I still have a tee shirt from Rik’s campaign. I lived in Modesto in the early 80’s, so I didn’t need convincing.

893774AE-9F34-4CFB-A9F7-3914C1602A96.jpeg
 
ChrisinNC said:
Stu, certainly the resume for those four above you mention are unquestionably HOF worthy. All of their credentials and major titles are considerably more numerous and impressive than a number of players already inducted.

Stu, just curious, are you on the HOF selection committee, as I don’t see your name among the 22 USBMA members? If not, with your vast knowledge of the game and virtually all the significant players past and present, you certainly should be.

I can certainly understand and respect that due to your friendships with a number of the players, why you might choose not to be on that committee.
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Thanks for the compliment and yes, I'd be more than qualified, but I'm not a member of USBMA and have faith in the selection process (aside from one glaring omission). Yes, the close relationship that I have with some of the players might be a disincentive, just as you suggest.
 
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