BCA Hall Of SHAME: No Ronnie Allen?

Should Ronnie Allen Be In The Hall Of Fame

  • YES

    Votes: 26 96.3%

  • NO

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Total voters
    27
Jimmy M. said:
This reminds me of the old-timers who would tell you till they were blue in the face that Wilt the Stilt was better than MJ! :D Fortunately, unlike pool, there is plenty of video of those players in their primes for us young, dumb (or whatever Blud was saying) kids to see for ourselves.
Click to expand...

to get off topic a bit...there are lot's of criteria for "great'. they say efren is the greatest, but he's only won the US open once, and earl has won it 5 times. so what's the criteria. pure numbers or pure skill.

i happen to think MJ was better than wilt, but wilt is not in my top 5. and if they played one on one, wilt should win. and wilt contributed more to the game than did MJ. wilt was an anomoly(matrix word:)). they changed rules because of him. mj was just one in a long line of players from baylor to hawkins to dr.j to thompson to MJ to ???
 
I'm not trying to rain on your parade Hemi, but here's the flip side to your point. Ronnie chose to gamble instead of playing tournaments. Maybe he had to do this to make any money. Look at all the great black baseball players that played in the "Colored league" back in Jackie Robinson's day. They're not in the baseball hof either. If you start trying to pick those players that were great gamblers, what criteria do you use? I'm not saying he shouldn't be in, I'm just saying that it's going to be difficult to establish a fair and equitable criteria.
 
This is my 2 cents. Im really sad about Ronnie Allen. I saw him play at the Stardust. He was always in action. I saw him play Luther Lassiter 9 ball. I saw him play with the likes of Crane and Diliberto in a straight pool tournament. I saw him and Weenie Beanie match up in one hole. I was just a kid then but he really amazed me as a player and an entertainer. Now to hear about him living out of his car, sitting at a bar with a big pitcher of beer, knocking everybody's game, getting no respect from younger players just disappoints me in knowing what could have been. Im not trying to knock RA as we all choose the path we go down but he had so much talent and I dont know if talent is enough to bring you to the Hall of Fame.
 
$Bill, Red was most likly talking about CLAY, balls. He offten spoke at how they played in comparison to plastic ones.

blud
 
I'm sure you're right about the clay balls Blud. I edited the earlier post to reflect that...
 
Re: Re: Re: Ed Kelly

bruin70 said:
well,,,that was johnny ervolino's list. i can't tell 1hole from the hole in my head.

interesting thing about praise,,,,,,it can be ego based, and there's a lot of ego in pool. contemporaries aren't too giving about heaping praise on their peers.....i mean TRUE peers. they prefer instead, to lay praise elsewhere, away from controversy or giving their true rivals credit. baryshnikov was once asked who was the greatest dancer, and he answered "fred astaire". he didn't say "nureyev", who was his peer...he laid praise elsewhere and away from nureyev.
Click to expand...
True that.
Ali was asked one time who the best heavyweight was oustide of himself. He said Jack Johnson. Come on. Jack Johnson? He was just paying Jack some respect for what he went through.
Jack Johnson ove Joe Louis, Liston, Foreman, Marciano or Frazier?
That is a long stretch.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ed Kelly

Joseph Cues said:
True that.
Ali was asked one time who the best heavyweight was oustide of himself. He said Jack Johnson. Come on. Jack Johnson? He was just paying Jack some respect for what he went through.
Jack Johnson ove Joe Louis, Liston, Foreman, Marciano or Frazier?
That is a long stretch.
Click to expand...

You are making my point JC. Ali never fought Jack Johnson. Never saw him fight in person. Only a person who has seen Ronnie Allen (In His Prime) play can compare him to any other player extant.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ed Kelly

hemicudas said:
You are making my point JC. Ali never fought Jack Johnson. Never saw him fight in person. Only a person who has seen Ronnie Allen (In His Prime) play can compare him to any other player extant.
Click to expand...
True that but that is still hypothetical.
I asked a few players who did see Ronnie play.
Little Al who beat Ronnie getting 10-8 said it's not even close comparing Ronnie to Efren. He said Efren hands down.
Then I asked a long-time player named Banks. He said it would really be close but in a long haul he'd pick Efren. Banks claims he saw Ronnie run 5 racks 10 and out one-handed one night.
I asked another an old-black gentleman who saw a great part of the west coast matchups then. He said he couldn't really pick between the two. He said very very close. Then he said there's this other player named Johnny Beavis who was on par with Ronnie and Efren.
I used to see Ronnie at the old Hard Times in La Habra. Now closed to the death of the owner, Wayne. Wayne used to back up Ronnie. The last I saw Ronnie was in Vegas the year Bustamante won the World 8-Ball at the Riviera. Ronnie was entertaining the crowd one time while Archer and Efren were playing. Archer glared at his directions for some of the noises at that area. Ronnie later said " players these days complain about everything."
Ask baseball players who played against Hank Aaron and Willie Mays. I wonder what the concensus would be if you asked who the better player was.
Of course, your point of me not being qualified to say who the better one-holer is because I've never seen Ronnie play at his best is well-taken. I have seen Efren play a ton of one-pocket.
Maybe we can ask Keith.
 
I've e-mailed Keith. We'll go whoever he picks just to settle this pissing contest. :D
For the record, I did see Keith get 10-7 from Efren at Hard Times.
Keith got ahead of that matchup.
When I was frequenting Hard Times La Habra, Ronnie could not get his stakehorse to back him up against Efren getting some spot.
This was back in '97.
I'm hearing sad stories about Ronnie's life right now. I hope somebody helps him out.
 
You are the only one "PISSING" here my young friend. Hall OF Fame members testimony is not enough for youngsters some time. You might also check the votes for Ronnie's induction against the votes against. That makes you a twice proven loser.
 
hemicudas said:
You are the only one "PISSING" here my young friend. Hall OF Fame members testimony is not enough for youngsters some time. You might also check the votes for Ronnie's induction against the votes against. That makes you a twice proven loser.
Click to expand...
Wow, you are crankier than I thought.
When and where did I say Ronnie did not belong to the hall?
It's obvious you have absolutely ZERO sense of humor since you can't see the emoticons, so I'm gonna quit on this. God, I hope I don't become as cranky as you are when I get old.
Wow! People getting pissed-off over a trivial opinion?
 
Joseph Cues said:
Wow, you are crankier than I thought.
When and where did I say Ronnie did not belong to the hall?
It's obvious you have absolutely ZERO sense of humor since you can't see the emoticons, so I'm gonna quit on this. God, I hope I don't become as cranky as you are when I get old.
Wow! People getting pissed-off over a trivial opinion?
Click to expand...
Well put, Joseph Cue.
 
hemicudas said:
Ask Keith? I think I suggested that.
Click to expand...

When I was a kid growing up in California, I couldn't wait to get out of school and go to the pool room to see if Ronnie Allen was playing. I used to watch him on the rail hour after hour, and there was nobody like him. He had some pretty unique moves on the table, and if it weren't for him taking a liking to me when I was just a youngster, my game would not be where it's at today.

Me and Ronnie traveled all over the country together. When Ronnie was in his prime, there weren't too many pool players around who would want to tangle with him. His one-pocket game is where he shined the brightest. As far as I'm concerned, Ronnie moved the balls better than anybody playing one-pocket.

In his heyday, I don't believe anybody could have beaten him playing one-pocket, and let's not forget all of the other games that he played well, too. Ask any one-pocket player who has been around about Ronnie Allen's one-pocket game, and I am sure you will hear the same. Even today, Ronnie's still got game.

Ronnie Allen should definitely be a strong candidate for inclusion and be given consideration (IMO) for being in the Pool Hall of Fame. He's got my vote.
 
Last edited:
This will be my last post on this subject. You BCA voting members have heard the testimony of many of the older generation who did have the opportunity to see, play against and as Keith McCready has stated, travel with the greatest One Pocket player who ever lived, Ronnie Allen. All I am capable of doing is trying to put the true facts in front of you. It is for you voting members to listen to, evaluate and judge the qualifications of Mr. Allen. I have done all I can do in trying to awaken you to the facts. My conscience is clear. I only hope your's is.
 
Last edited:
ronnie allen vote

after thinking about this subject, please change my vote to NO he does not belong in hall of fame. my opinion - neither does rempe, also my opinion. both great players, but dump artists {both} should belong to hall of shame.
 
"As far as "business" games, I am sure there are very few players (if any) in the Hall of Fame that have never lost a game on purpose hustling for a higher bet, a railbird's side-bet or a previous arrangement. The very nature of making a living at pool as a road player in the fifties through the seventies lent itself to these tactics. And I'm sure it still goes on today. Is "laying down" when playing someone to convince him or people watching that they have a chance to win not as serious a deception as throwing a game when a backer puts up the money? Kind of like being a little bit pregnant. You either are, or you're not." Quote by Jayz

I can't understand backers. I saw two players that knew each other play for 300 a set and both had a backer. One won the first night the other won the second night. Both players came out 150 ahaed and both backers were stuck 150 plus the time. How smart is that? I just don't get it!
 
People need to learn to disregard the lifestyle and attitude of great players, and recognize their ability at the table when it comes to induction into the hall of fame. Ronnie Allen is by far the best one pocket player I've seen play in the flesh. Efren is up there too, but in my humble opinion I don't think Efren can bank quite as superbly as RA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top