BCA Ready to Do Its Part?

[Kid Dynomite]

Welcome to the "For Profit World"

Many of the players like Shane worked their way up thru APA and BCA league play to a professional level. Those "For Profit Organizations" have local operators making over 6 figures! They do not want to take a pay cut to support the "PLAYERS". So, you get the Pro's abandoned at the top of their sport.

If I am not mistaken, Mark Griffen paid a pretty penny for the BCA! He is behind the players 100%. But, again it is a business and his money invested. He can not support the effort entirely when brunswick, olhausen simonios and etc. benefit from it as well!!!!

I also think it is not fair to the players when Tiawan sends 58 players and it is paid for completely by their government please check the AZB news board to confirm this! They have a national pride effort behind winning these things. In ASIA it is a serious matter and in the USA no one cares. Our USA olymipic committee should be contacted about this matter and the BCA should be the one to "DO IT" They find funds for pole Vaulting and other unrecognized sporting events to atttend the olympics and they can assist in locating MAJOR sponsors that may be able to write off the expenses and contributions as many Olymipic sponsors do!

The ball is in that committees hands and I assure you the meeting was at the BCA's request!

Now regarding past problems with the UPA. I really think it is a mute organization and not worthy of a precense at that table. The BCA has its own spot at the WPA and it really needs to step up and become more involved. Do not just leave the selection criteria up to someone else!!!

Look at the body of events that year and come up with your own system and send those people. Because it truely is "YOUR CALL". How can a group of players come up with the ranking system and player selections when several of them are not unbiased when financially they can benefit if the selections are who they want.

The kicker for me on the UPA explaination is "Tony Robles former mosconi cup member" hasn't placed or won in YEARRRRRRRS!

We all know there is an inner circle of mosconi cup selectees and the captain gets to hand pick 2 members. The outrage of the selections is really upsetting and I can not understand why it bothers me and others when like another poster said 5 or more will probably not show.

It just makes me mad for those player not selected that can and would have flipped the bill to attend but never had the option afforded to them. Examples: D Harriman, Dennis Hatch, j Slivka, and the list goes on and on!

Kid
Dynomite

 

[juegabillar]

Of course we need a new organization. The BCA promotes themselves and they do it to collect membership fees from businesses within the industry. The monies collected go where? It definitely isn't going back to players in any way, shape or form. Just ask unknownpro. The BCA plans there Trade Show which is now closed to the public. It didn't used to be like that. The Billiard Education Fund is a great thing - so is the tournament in Vegas every year. However, it's not enough.

When the IPT went belly up, nobody was there to assist the players. There was nothing set up to protect them. There was nothing set up to represent them. There were no options. They were just left on their own to fend for themselves. Did the BCA step up to the plate to do anything? I can't recall that they did anything.

It's the same way with the WPC. The players need to either have a major sponsor to assist with the costs of attending this event, or they have to stay home. They certainly can't win a hell of a lot of money with only 2 or 3 events on the UPA calendar, so they are forced to either compete on the regional tours or get regular 9-5 jobs - sometimes they have to do both. Others just go back to gambling on the road, start playing poker instead of pool, or they quit. All the while the BCA sits back planning their Trade Show that nobody cares about anymore.

So yes, a new organization is needed. An organization that will take a proactive approach to providing the players with events, opportunites, benefits, and respect. The BCA can keep its position within the WCBS/WPA umbrella, however to assist the players a new organization needs to be formed outside the realm of politics, power, and greed. This organization will be set up to provide benefits and services that the other organizations have been unable/ or refused to provide for the players. I am speaking of legal representation, health benefits, assistance with sponsorship, and setting up a retirement plan.

This organization could also be responsible for implementing a National Billiard Training Center - we have a great school in Dallas right now. What's the hold up? As an instructor, I would jump at the chance of teaching at the national training center - I would relocate in a heartbeat. Everything that I have mentioned is already there, its just that when you bring these issues up, they all say that it costs too much. The money is already there, and its not going where its needed the most. Its going where they want it to go, not where it needs to go. That's the reality of the situation.

If there are so many problems with the current organizations in the US., why don't you wet your feet and try forming one yourself? I would sure like to see how anyone else would resolve the alleged problems "US Players" are facing, or the decisions they would make concerning whom attends which event, how frequent the new organization would schedule their tournaments, the prize money, or how the new organization would search and obtain the "huge sponsorship monies" waiting out there.

Lots of ignorant people like to open their mouths without knowledge. Bitter people tend to criticize everything. Smart people get their hands dirty and do something about it.

Your call now......but please come down to Earth and reality....

 

[Blackjack]

If there are so many problems with the current organizations in the US., why don't you wet your feet and try forming one yourself? I would sure like to see how anyone else would resolve the alleged problems "US Players" are facing, or the decisions they would make concerning whom attends which event, how frequent the new organization would schedule their tournaments, the prize money, or how the new organization would search and obtain the "huge sponsorship monies" waiting out there.

Lots of ignorant people like to open their mouths without knowledge. Bitter people tend to criticize everything. Smart people get their hands dirty and do something about it.

Your call now......

And here we go with the labeling again.

Having conversed with you on several forums over the years in a polite manner, let me assure you that I have gotten my feet wet several times. Every single time someone "tries" to do something, these labels come out (ignorant, negative, naysayer, etc) and the plans are thwarted, or the flames are doused by people that want to keep everything the way that it is. We both know that those people exist. They want to keep everything the way it is right now because its tilted in their favor. I have no respect for any of those people, and I shouldn't.

Ignorant? I guess I was ignorant when I protested the PBT deal with RJ Reynolds - and I guess I was ignorant again when I asked the players to protect themselves prior to joining the IPT. The fact of the matter is, none of these organizations did squat in either of those situations. They sat back and did nothing. During the recent IPT situation, was I sitting around with my thumb up my ass like the BCA? I don't think so.

After the IPT went into a downward spiral, I was on the phone constantly with people such as Mark Griffin and other leaders in our industry to see what could be done to salvage professional pool. Where was the BCA? Who cares?

Right now, power has shifted to the regional tours. As a player, I would much rather play on the Viking Tour, Southeast Open Tour, JossNE Tour, or the Florida Pro tour where I know that there's events, I know that there's money, and I know I don't have to take out a lien on the house to get there and pay my entry fee and hotel costs.

Frank Alvarez is a friend of mine. I support him 110% in his efforts to promote the UPA events. However, lately there hasn't been any events to speak of. I do know that Frank is a tireless worker and man of his word, but he does get crucified in these forums by those that have not stood in the trenches beside him. He will succeed only if things change within the political spectrum that exists within and around the industry. Until any of that changes, pool in the United States and North America will stay where its at. It will stay that way because of the power of political leverage, not because of anything that I say or do.

 

[JAM]

If there are so many problems with the current organizations in the US., why don't you wet your feet and try forming one yourself? I would sure like to see how anyone else would resolve the alleged problems "US Players" are facing, or the decisions they would make concerning whom attends which event, how frequent the new organization would schedule their tournaments, the prize money, or how the new organization would search and obtain the "huge sponsorship monies" waiting out there.

Lots of ignorant people like to open their mouths without knowledge. Bitter people tend to criticize everything. Smart people get their hands dirty and do something about it....

I totally understand where you're coming from, Juegabillar! However, the current state of the affairs for men's professional pool is what it is, and it doesn't look like there is a change forthcoming for the American male professionals, IMHO.

I have refrained from posting in recent times because the climate on this forum sickens me. However, I read your posts in this thread with great interest as it pertains to the plight of the professional Latin American, Central American, and other Hispanic players. For sure, there's not been too many bones thrown their way, and though you have exerted your time, dedication, and monies to make things happen for them, it's like a bucket of water in the desert when you look at the whole picture. That is not to say you're efforts aren't appreciated because I am sure many of these players wouldn't even be able to compete if it were not for folks like you. So I personally commend you for your selfless contributions.

America, though, is a whole different ball game, Juegabillar, and I will tell you why I think so, again, my opinion. I gave up on following the BCA, not the BCA league, but the organization of the BCA I am talking about. Decisions are made behind closed doors, and personally, I don't understand how the organization stays in existence. I read on AzBilliards Main Page that the BCA organization recently hired a publicity firm in Georgia. Who's footing that bill? Those monies would be better spent paying the FULL COST to send American players to Philippines or at least boost up the once-a-year BCA "invitational" Open from $15,000 for first place to decent prize monies.

They gave an unknown entity the "authority" to be the governing body of professional pool. A men's organization was established, and I think we can all agree there were growing pains or problems associated with it from the start. When it was evident that the men's organization wasn't growing the way some had hoped it would, some folks jumped ship, leaving a drowning UPA ship in the hands of Frank Alvarez.

Now, I like Frank, and I think he's the PERFECT person to represent this organization, but with no funds and no sponsorship, it's a little difficult to get the UPA ship afloat. Instead, they piggy-back their tour on the tournaments produced by independent promoters and the like. Beats a blank, I guess.

Well-known American male champions have lost sponsorship in recent times, putting them in the same situation of the other non-sponsored American male players. Welcome to American pool, the only sport that supports itself from within, and the industry members are hurting, just like the players.

In sum, my opinion may not be worth much and I may be some people's "racist" and other niceties, but I've witnessed what's out there on the American tournament trail. Pool is a rich man's high, and if I ever decide to travel the tournament trail again, it will be deemed as a vacation for me. Discrimination, favoritism, and an unlevel playing field has soured me on pool.

Anyone who wants to bash me, save it for somebody who cares! You can stick a fork in me!

JAM

 

[Blackjack]

I totally understand where you're coming from, Juegabillar! However, the current state of the affairs for men's professional pool is what it is, and it doesn't look like there is a change forthcoming for the American male professionals, IMHO.

I have refrained from posting in recent times because the climate on this forum sickens me. However, I read your posts in this thread with great interest as it pertains to the plight of the professional Latin American, Central American, and other Hispanic players. For sure, there's not been too many bones thrown their way, and though you have exerted your time, dedication, and monies to make things happen for them, it's like a bucket of water in the desert when you look at the whole picture. That is not to say you're efforts aren't appreciated because I am sure many of these players wouldn't even be able to compete if it were not for folks like you. So I personally commend you for your selfless contributions.

America, though, is a whole different ball game, Juegabillar, and I will tell you why I think so, again, my opinion. I gave up on following the BCA, not the BCA league, but the organization of the BCA I am talking about. Decisions are made behind closed doors, and personally, I don't understand how the organization stays in existence. I read on AzBilliards Main Page that the BCA organization recently hired a publicity firm in Georgia. Who's footing that bill? Those monies would be better spent paying the FULL COST to send American players to Philippines or at least boost up the once-a-year BCA "invitational" Open from $15,000 for first place to decent prize monies.

They gave an unknown entity the "authority" to be the governing body of professional pool. A men's organization was established, and I think we can all agree there were growing pains or problems associated with it from the start. When it was evident that the men's organization wasn't growing the way some had hoped it would, some folks jumped ship, leaving a drowning UPA ship in the hands of Frank Alvarez.

Now, I like Frank, and I think he's the PERFECT person to represent this organization, but with no funds and no sponsorship, it's a little difficult to get the UPA ship afloat. Instead, they piggy-back their tour on the tournaments produced by independent promoters and the like. Beats a blank, I guess.

Well-known American male champions have lost sponsorship in recent times, putting them in the same situation of the other non-sponsored American male players. Welcome to American pool, the only sport that supports itself from within, and the industry members are hurting, just like the players.

In sum, my opinion may not be worth much and I may be some people's "racist" and other niceties, but I've witnessed what's out there on the American tournament trail. Pool is a rich man's high, and if I ever decide to travel the tournament trail again, it will be deemed as a vacation for me. Discrimination, favoritism, and an unlevel playing field has soured me on pool.

Anyone who wants to bash me, save it for somebody who cares! You can stick a fork in me!

JAM

Great post - spot on!

 

[JAM]

My response to this green dot remark: I won't bash ypu because I agree with eevrything you wrote. However, until the greedy politicians are removed, things will stay the same.

I ain't a Republican and I ain't no Democrat, but I do vote for who I think represents my desires.

In pool, I have continued to stand by my opinion(s) steadfastly and WILL NEVER switch horses when the political winds change.

Unfortunately, some switch sides to feed their own personal need and/or gain, whether they agree with the side's politics or not.

JAM

 

[crosseyedjoe]

APA is the one that comes to my mind when it comes to BCA replacement. BCA being a business entity now should really give up its seat in WPA.

They should let APA absorb UPA. APA has a good track record on amateur pool leagues.

 

[JAM]

APA is the one that comes to my mind when it comes to BCA replacement. BCA being a business entity now should really give up its seat in WPA.

They should let APA absorb UPA. APA has a good track record on amateur pool leagues.

Oooooh, I love those cherry blossoms on red!

In trying to decide which one is right, it's kind of not fair to single one league out when you realize there is the BCA league, TAP, APA, and the rest of the alphabet soup of leagues.

I don't know what the answer is, but the BCA used to be located in an building in Colorado, last time I checked which admittedly has been a while, and they had a whole host of employees who are earning an annual salary that work there. I'd imagine the employee on the lowest part of the BCA organizational chart earns more money per annum than the average American male pool player.

However, I admire your suggestion and agree that the BCA should recuse itself from having anything to do with American professional pool. IMHO, it is because of the BCA who gave an unknown entity with no track record the authority to be the governing body for American male professionals that American pool suffers and continues to suffer today. Somebody benefitted from that deal, but it wasn't the American male pros.

JAM