bca

Will the BCA lose more money from players switching leagues than ball costs?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 24.6%

  • No

    Votes: 101 75.4%
  • Total voters
    134
you have to excuse my friend....

Mark Griffin said:
This is addressed to Luxury more than anyone else. I apologize now for the rant that follows.

Please try to get your facts straight. The BCAPL (not the BCA) stated this only applies to the National event and Regional tournaments promoted (directed) by the BCAPL.

It does NOT say that Wetsern BCA will adopt this policy.

It is NOT about the cost of cue balls. It is about damaging equipment. It has NOTHING to do about wearing out the cloth. No-one should have to replace any balls because a cue tip damages them.

If I am not mistaken, APA does NOT ALLOW jump cues. So what are you gonna do now. I assume you won't be playing APA either.

We do a LOT for pool - and it pisses me off when someone (such as yourself) tries to 'threaten' us by bringing up the 'imaginary amount of money we might lose' for making the right decision..

Why not get out and support some of the things CSI (parent of BCAPL) does - like the National Championship Series. Or maybe applaud the extensive rule re-write we did a year ago (which took and year and a fair amount of time or money) or how about the CTS (on line, real time brackets) which will allow tracking of players by people at home. (which also took 2 years and over $100,000.

No, you would rather ***** and complain (in a public forum - with the intent of 'forcing' us to change our position) then send an intelligent letter to our office. It just gets old.

Oh-and by the way, I am really sorry you will NEVER use a house cue. I always thought the great cue makers were trying to emulate the 'hit' of a good one-piece cue. But I am sure you know more about that than me.

Sometimes the squeeky wheel does not get the grease. Sometimes the wheel needs changing.

Oh, by the way, please tell SVB he NEEDS a phenolic tip to be able to compete with the 'big boys'. About half of your logic is all in your head. If you feel the game is all about breaking, then you have convinced yourself you have an advantage. That is what confidence is all about.

See how far a phenolic tip gets you in 14.1 or one-pocket. In fact playing 10 ball on a 9' probably nullifies most of the perceived gain of phenolic. I agree with previous posters (here and in other threads) - it is about technique. Many top players do not use phenolic.

I will get off my soapbox now. I feel better. Maybe my skin is a little thin these days. But it should not be necessary to put up with all these misguided posts.

Almost like boycotting a particular car because the tires are too big for the Indy 500. Never mind that you will never be in the Indy 500. AND if you ever were in the INDY 500, you would only have to change your tires. Oh-and everything else about the car is much better than the other brands available. You need to learn how to adapt. Or not.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL-NCS
Click to expand...

He was tourtured as a young lad he usually hids it better but slipped out today...it is however, is dime that is going to pay to get his shaft changed over, and if preditor wont do it, good bye warranty.

Lux. he doesn have a good point about the pros and phenloic. I personaly like it when people duck and cover when the "crack" of a gun shot goes off and your break is almost as good as mine. But as I told you befor I know a 62 year old man who breaks with a leather tip and his brek makes mine look well just plain silly...
 
I started this thread to try to help the BCAPL see the light and save themselves some lost money and so that I and others could compete with the equipment we have spent hundereds of hours getting used to.

Mark Griffin said:
This is addressed to Luxury more than anyone else. I apologize now for the rant that follows.

Please try to get your facts straight. The BCAPL (not the BCA) stated this only applies to the National event and Regional tournaments promoted (directed) by the BCAPL.

I have said that I and I believe others wont be going to the national event if we have to buy a new break cue and play with something we are not used to.
It does NOT say that Wetsern BCA will adopt this policy.

I said that I'm sure I will still be able to play with my BK2 on my monday night BCAPL league.

It is NOT about the cost of cue balls. It is about damaging equipment. It has NOTHING to do about wearing out the cloth. No-one should have to replace any balls because a cue tip damages them.

No one should have to replace their break cue.

If I am not mistaken, APA does NOT ALLOW jump cues. So what are you gonna do now. I assume you won't be playing APA either.

I'm going to do as I said and continue playing monday night league. Did you read the thread?

We do a LOT for pool - and it pisses me off when someone (such as yourself) tries to 'threaten' us by bringing up the 'imaginary amount of money we might lose' for making the right decision..

It's not an imaginary amount. Real genuine money will be lost.

Why not get out and support some of the things CSI (parent of BCAPL) does - like the National Championship Series. Or maybe applaud the extensive rule re-write we did a year ago (which took and year and a fair amount of time or money) or how about the CTS (on line, real time brackets) which will allow tracking of players by people at home. (which also took 2 years and over $100,000.

Honestly I'm not really that impressed by these accomplishments or the high price paid for them.

No, you would rather ***** and complain (in a public forum - with the intent of 'forcing' us to change our position) then send an intelligent letter to our office. It just gets old.

You are preaching about an intelligent letter while writing this post?

Oh-and by the way, I am really sorry you will NEVER use a house cue. I always thought the great cue makers were trying to emulate the 'hit' of a good one-piece cue. But I am sure you know more about that than me.

All I need to know is how much better I play with my Predator 314/2 than every house cue I've ever tried.

Sometimes the squeeky wheel does not get the grease. Sometimes the wheel needs changing.

Oh, by the way, please tell SVB he NEEDS a phenolic tip to be able to compete with the 'big boys'. About half of your logic is all in your head. If you feel the game is all about breaking, then you have convinced yourself you have an advantage. That is what confidence is all about.

Tell a pro that they can't use whatever break cue they have spent countless hours practicing their break with when they are about to start their match which is going to happen to all the BCAPL players that don't know about this rule and watch their reaction.

If you don't think I've spent hours practicing my break with a break rak then watch this video of me breaking with my old x breaker. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCDQ7C8aC-o&feature=related

See how far a phenolic tip gets you in 14.1 or one-pocket.

[B]Seriously what does this have to do with anything?[/B]

In fact playing 10 ball on a 9' probably nullifies most of the perceived gain of phenolic. I agree with previous posters (here and in other threads) - it is about technique. Many top players do not use phenolic.

Are these BCAPL events 10 ball? Try to stick to the topic.


I will get off my soapbox now. I feel better. Maybe my skin is a little thin these days. But it should not be necessary to put up with all these misguided posts.

Almost like boycotting a particular car because the tires are too big for the Indy 500. Never mind that you will never be in the Indy 500. AND if you ever were in the INDY 500, you would only have to change your tires. Oh-and everything else about the car is much better than the other brands available. You need to learn how to adapt. Or not.

Analogies are one of the most over-rated things in a debate.
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL-NCS
Click to expand...
 
Considering that it just goes back to leather tips I doubt there will be a problem.

I could understand if they banned G10 where everyone paid to switch to phenolic and then banned phenolic soon after. Some will complain, but once the switch is done the complaining will be done as well.

I quit playing softball for the ASA because of what I mentioned above. They would certify a bat to be legit for the league and then ban it a year or less later putting me out $300. This happened 3 times in two years leaving me with 5 bats going from $150 to $300 that I couldn't use. I got fed up and quit because of the BS.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
I don't get it either. From everything I've read the BCAPL is far and away the best league for a player. And as SpiderWeb stated, the rule applies to everyone so if you have a better break with, then you probably have a similar advantage without.

This may not be the case but honestly, for someone to say they would leave the league over not being able to use a phenolic tip break cue to snap the rack kind of sounds like the mentality of a banger, not a player.

If it's about the money, I would just grab a house cue off the rack so the change costs me nothing. In fact it would actually put money in my pocket because I can then sell my turbo-tipped break cue to someone switching leagues. ;)
Click to expand...

No the guys I would be playing that are used to their break cue would have an advantage over the players that are using a new break cue that they aren't used to. A lot of guys that play for money are not about to start using a leather tip all the time so they can get used to it for the BCAPL events.
 
Luxury...and I mean this with all respect, but...you need to have more confidence in your break...period. There really is no such thing as the 'magick stick'...whether it be a breaker or a player or a jumper, it's till just two/ a few piece of wood and a fancy tip. If your breaking technique is sound, you should still have as similar a result as your opponent playing with the exact spec'd equipment. This just kind seems like a no-brainer to me. No one is at an advantage due to equipment...only good old-fashioned skill and technique. Seems to me like it would make the game more fun to play.

As to your point of players arriving for an event in LC or LV without the properly spec'd equipment.....oh well! Look, there is absolutely no excuse for not knowing the rules of any given league one is participating in, for any given year...at least with regards to the Western BCAPL, every player receives a small rule book with their membership. At least I did. Seems like it was even small enough to fit into the pocket of a cues case. But it has been a couple of years since I have been able to play in that league due to my work schedule.

I will say this...even before the ban on phenolic tips on break cues in the larger events...I LOVED the time I have spent in the Western BCAPL!!! Easily the smoothest running league in the country. :yeah:

Lisa
 
I'm going to do as I said and continue playing monday night league. Did you read the thread?


No, but your thread title did say will it lose more money to players switching leagues. I thought you meant that youd be switching also.
 
The real issue is not whether the BCAPL allows phenolic tips or not.
The issue is the BCAPL's total disregard for their membership.

It is not like phenolic tips just came on the market yesteday. They have been around for years. All of a sudden the BCAPL decides to ban the phenolic tips with total disregard to the thousands of members who have purchased tips and cues.

At the very least, these players have to change tips on their cues. Those who have purcased cues specifically designed with phenolic combination tip/ferrules have to decide whether to destroy the basic design of the cue or to replace it entirely.

It is this total disregard for their membership that turns me off of the BCAPL.

BTW, I have seen cue balls damaged in a lot of ways, but I have never seen one damaged by hitting it with a phenolic tip.
 
derekdisco said:
I'd pay for a new set of balls every week if we had bca instead of apa.
Click to expand...

The BCA is my choice if I played in a pool league. The APA in my area is all about sand bagging and strategy to win a tournament to go to Las Vegas. It's not any fun at all playing in a league where players are told to lose on purpose and I don't see how they can ever stop it. Teams bring in new players for the sole purpose of winning the tournament for the trip to Las Vegas and these new players are told to lose until they need them to win important matches. It's a shame that this is how a lot of teams work to beat the system.

James
 
Without getting off track on comparing leagues, the BCAPL (IMHO) is the best there is and Mark Griffin one of the best, period.

The BCAPL has the right to choose what they think is best for their league. Personally, I happen to agree with them. I haven't did the research on the damage to the cue ball, but I will go on the assumption that they do cause damage. That being said, I don't understand why anyone would want to play with Phenolic tips. I personally don't like them, but obviously a lot of you do.

P.S. I'm glad baseball has never allowed aluminum bats in the majors.
 
Luxury,

I'm just taken back by your stance. Do you really feel the break shot is that important? Every other rack in BCAPL. What about the other potential sixteen shots between breaks? Do they matter?

As I posted on another thread, I will challenge you to a break contest. Most accurate cue ball placement after the break and fallen ball count. I use a fifteen year old McDermott to break with in Vegas. In Rochester I have an eighteen year old Schon. Both have leather tips. I can't even tell you which brand. I don't care. Neither should you. You are fixating on the wrong thing. It's not the cue, it's the player! It's not the material, it's the amount of correct practice time!

Mr. Griffin and I do not always agree. We've had our moments. In this instance he is absolutely correct! Regardless of why the rule was changed, it is his sandbox. Either play by his rules or find another sandbox to play in!

Lyn
 
Actually, on second thought, maybe you're correct. As of today, the phenolic tip rule is rescinded. Concurrently a new rule is now in force. All BCAPL events will be held using the old, old style 2 1/2" cue balls. Have fun!!!!!!

Lyn
 
Luxury....first and foremost, like the avatar :D

Second, just like any rule change, they knew this would be a beating because people always bit#h about change.....that means they weighed the good against the bad and decided it was in the best interest to move forward with this change....if somebody quits a league or misses an important event due to a fair and consistent rule change, so be it.....some customers you are simply better off without....

Third, I beg everyone else, no more phenolic tip threads.....it's really getting to be a beating....it's a tip....if it's that important, quit league and just start matching up....you can make more money that way and you get more games being in action...
 
jason said:
Without getting off track on comparing leagues, the BCAPL (IMHO) is the best there is and Mark Griffin one of the best, period.

The BCAPL has the right to choose what they think is best for their league. Personally, I happen to agree with them. I haven't did the research on the damage to the cue ball, but I will go on the assumption that they do cause damage. That being said, I don't understand why anyone would want to play with Phenolic tips. I personally don't like them, but obviously a lot of you do.

P.S. I'm glad baseball has never allowed aluminum bats in the majors.
Click to expand...

What Jason said....

All ya need to do now is to do away with jump cues and everything will be perfect again. Force someone to kick when they're hemmed-up 2" behind an obstructing ball.
 
I feel that the break is incredibly important when you are a player who can break and run often which I do. As I said earlier in the thread I didn't win the prize for the league's best break, I won the prize for most break and runs so I definitely understand how important making the other shots are.

What's more important is the tons of players who have to get new equipment to play at the events. You think Mark is right because it's his sandbox I'm not questioning if a man can run his business how he wants I'm questioning whether this decision will lose players and money.

Most pool players are broke and will be pissed that they spent hundereds on a stick and now have to pay more money for a stick to use in Vegas. I think for this reason alone the ban will be bad for business in the BCAPL.

Mark clearly states in this thread that it is NOT about the cost of replacing balls or cloth so based on that and how defensive his rant was that was so full of nonsense I still can't believe it, I'm starting to think there is a hidden reason for the ban.

cardiac kid said:
Luxury,

I'm just taken back by your stance. Do you really feel the break shot is that important? Every other rack in BCAPL. What about the other potential sixteen shots between breaks? Do they matter?

As I posted on another thread, I will challenge you to a break contest. Most accurate cue ball placement after the break and fallen ball count. I use a fifteen year old McDermott to break with in Vegas. In Rochester I have an eighteen year old Schon. Both have leather tips. I can't even tell you which brand. I don't care. Neither should you. You are fixating on the wrong thing. It's not the cue, it's the player! It's not the material, it's the amount of correct practice time!

Mr. Griffin and I do not always agree. We've had our moments. In this instance he is absolutely correct! Regardless of why the rule was changed, it is his sandbox. Either play by his rules or find another sandbox to play in!

Lyn
Click to expand...
 
Luxury said:
I'm quite certain that they will lose more money than they were paying for balls. I know they lost business from me. Bad business IMO.
Click to expand...

The BCA offers one of the best products as far as leagues go. When you take into consideration the diamond tables they use for thier tournaments it probably puts them over the top.

To quit a good league because they won't let you use a phenolic tip is just plain stupid.

I have a break cue with a phenolic tip, but I find I have far more control just using my playing cue. As far as jump cues go, I suppose it's a bit of a pain in the butt if you can't use a phenolic tip, but as many have said, you should be able to do it with leather so it comes down to developing the right skills.

In the end this should be better for your game.
 
Mark Griffin said:
This is addressed to Luxury more than anyone else. I apologize now for the rant that follows.

Please try to get your facts straight. The BCAPL (not the BCA) stated this only applies to the National event and Regional tournaments promoted (directed) by the BCAPL.

It does NOT say that Wetsern BCA will adopt this policy.

It is NOT about the cost of cue balls. It is about damaging equipment. It has NOTHING to do about wearing out the cloth. No-one should have to replace any balls because a cue tip damages them.

If I am not mistaken, APA does NOT ALLOW jump cues. So what are you gonna do now. I assume you won't be playing APA either.

We do a LOT for pool - and it pisses me off when someone (such as yourself) tries to 'threaten' us by bringing up the 'imaginary amount of money we might lose' for making the right decision..

Why not get out and support some of the things CSI (parent of BCAPL) does - like the National Championship Series. Or maybe applaud the extensive rule re-write we did a year ago (which took and year and a fair amount of time or money) or how about the CTS (on line, real time brackets) which will allow tracking of players by people at home. (which also took 2 years and over $100,000.

No, you would rather ***** and complain (in a public forum - with the intent of 'forcing' us to change our position) then send an intelligent letter to our office. It just gets old.

Oh-and by the way, I am really sorry you will NEVER use a house cue. I always thought the great cue makers were trying to emulate the 'hit' of a good one-piece cue. But I am sure you know more about that than me.

Sometimes the squeeky wheel does not get the grease. Sometimes the wheel needs changing.

Oh, by the way, please tell SVB he NEEDS a phenolic tip to be able to compete with the 'big boys'. About half of your logic is all in your head. If you feel the game is all about breaking, then you have convinced yourself you have an advantage. That is what confidence is all about.

See how far a phenolic tip gets you in 14.1 or one-pocket. In fact playing 10 ball on a 9' probably nullifies most of the perceived gain of phenolic. I agree with previous posters (here and in other threads) - it is about technique. Many top players do not use phenolic.

I will get off my soapbox now. I feel better. Maybe my skin is a little thin these days. But it should not be necessary to put up with all these misguided posts.

Almost like boycotting a particular car because the tires are too big for the Indy 500. Never mind that you will never be in the Indy 500. AND if you ever were in the INDY 500, you would only have to change your tires. Oh-and everything else about the car is much better than the other brands available. You need to learn how to adapt. Or not.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL-NCS
Click to expand...

Well said sir!!!!!!!!!!
 
For realz this is stupid.

You don't throw away a perfectly good league experience over a minor equipment rule. Anyone who does is a dink and misses the point of league. You're there to have fun and compete. You don't need a 20% harder tip to do that.
 
No one reads. Here is post 12 in this thread: I'm not quitting the BCA - Yesterday, 08:16 PM
I explained that they lost my business at the national events. I just think this is a bad rule that needs to be changed for the good of the players and the bcapl leagues profitibility. End of story.

supergreenman said:
The BCA offers one of the best products as far as leagues go. When you take into consideration the diamond tables they use for thier tournaments it probably puts them over the top.

To quit a good league because they won't let you use a phenolic tip is just plain stupid.

I have a break cue with a phenolic tip, but I find I have far more control just using my playing cue. As far as jump cues go, I suppose it's a bit of a pain in the butt if you can't use a phenolic tip, but as many have said, you should be able to do it with leather so it comes down to developing the right skills.

In the end this should be better for your game.
Click to expand...
 
luxury-

simple, just buy another shaft?!!! now you can play with either one anytime, this is what i will be doing.....
 
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