be honest, who really uses center ball ?

[ShootingArts]

stun shots

The game below is entertaining although physics and rules are both a bit odd. Why it is of interest to this thread is that the only shot that can be taken is a stun shot, "center ball". Interesting to see what you can do with just stun and speed and more interesting to see what the computer does with perfect aim and speed control. The game is adaptive so the worse you play the worse it does, the better you play the better it gets. When it decides it is time for the computer to win Efren can't make the shots it makes, all just using stun shots.

Hu

http://real-pool.freeonlinegames.com/

 

[DeepBanks]

Why? I mean Why?

If you can't hit center ball, how in the world can you measure how far off center you are hitting for the desired spin?

Steve

People who use logic . . . .well, they're . . . LOGICAL . . . Dammit!

 

[Rod]

Which center ball? The one viewed from horizontal or the one viewed from the stick's elevation?

pj
chgo

You know the answer.

Rod

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The whole point of this thread is that players move away from center ball as they improve. The original poster did not ask about the effects of using side spin vs shooting center ball. That's a whole different topic.

I don't think so. When advanced players advise beginners to "use centerball", they don't mean dead center, they mean without sidespin. Advising a beginner to use dead center would be bad advice, since the most useful beginning shots to learn are natural roll (best hit above center) and stop shots (usually hit below center).

In other words, in common pool usage, centerball rarely means dead center. You may want the word to follow strict Merriam-Webster rules, but that's not the reality, and you'll misunderstand and be misunderstood by most others if you insist on interpreting it only that way.

(And, by the way, dictionaries allow for other meanings too.)

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Which center ball? The one viewed from horizontal or the one viewed from the stick's elevation?

pj
chgo

You know the answer.

Rod

I know which you mean from the context, but it's not clear in any way without that.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Deleted...

 

[Complex13]

ya know

I was playing a local tournament last night and was watching my opponent shoot. He is a very good shot and has won many state titles here. Anyway, he seems to use a lot of right or left hand english on every shot. He has probably played that way long enough that he HAS to use english. Not to mention that his stroke is so unconventional, it really is unbeleiveable to watch this guy shoot. He is really loose with his stroke and to me its damn amazing he even hits the cue ball at all. I couldn't try to emulate this guy's stroke without destroying either my cue or the cloth!

I'm the opposite type of player. I find out where my cue ball is going to go with a center ball hit FIRST. If the track line is suitable for shape on my next shot I hit center ball. If I need to adjust the track line to account for a scratch or other object balls in the way then I try to figure out how much top/bottom/side that I need to get to where I want to be.

Now, I got crushed last night by this guy. He was on his game and wasn't missing anything. However, I have played him before where he wasn't shooting for $hit and I whipped him. I wasn't doing anything special but just being consistent. He's obviously a better player than me based on his accomplishments. I just think that all of the variables in his game like the loose crazy stroke and the "english everything in" approach just bites him in the @ss from time to time.

I totally agree that you should always try the simple approach first. In form and in shotmaking and playing shape. Once you get going and get some wind in your sails adjust your style accordingly. Do what works for you.

 

[pooltchr]

People who use logic . . . .well, they're . . . LOGICAL . . . Dammit!

Sorry..an old habit I got into when I started teaching this game. Now I can't help myself

Hi, My name is Steve, and I am logical! There, I said it!!

Steve

 

[olauzon]

english is like the 12 year old shootin spunk all over his bedding for no apparent reason. center ball is just the same; a tad more mature and won't be seen.

edit; that's me lady, and i welded her hair (yes, there to.. fnnn fnnn)

 

[mullyman]

I don't think so. When advanced players advise beginners to "use centerball", they don't mean dead center, they mean without sidespin. Advising a beginner to use dead center would be bad advice, since the most useful beginning shots to learn are natural roll (best hit above center) and stop shots (usually hit below center).

In other words, in common pool usage, centerball rarely means dead center. You may want the word to follow strict Merriam-Webster rules, but that's not the reality, and you'll misunderstand and be misunderstood by most others if you insist on interpreting it only that way.

(And, by the way, dictionaries allow for other meanings too.)

pj
chgo

This is so wrong it's not even funny. Center ball is center ball, Patrick. A good instructor never tells a beginner "Hit it center" but really means roll it forward. If he did mean that he would say "Hit it center but soft enough that the slide is off the ball at contact so it will roll forward. I would assume an instructor would say "Hit it high" or "hit it low" if he meant follow, stop, or draw. By the way, all the books teach hitting DEAD CENTER for straight in stop shots. As we all know it's a lot easier to achieve that stop shot but hitting it a bit below center and whenever I teach someone to do a stop shot I tell them hit it "below center".

Now I'm going to use your usage of it the word center, Patrick.

"I want you to hit this shot in the center."

It's up to you to determine if I mean hit it high or low or left or right.
MULLY

 

[gulyassy]

I think we're basically pulling on the same rope here. I agree that the misapplication of side and/or a misunderstanding of how it will make the CB/OBs behave is a MAJOR source of missed shots.

So, yes, a center ball hit (or actually a little above center to get natural roll happening asap) has a lot to recommend it.

HOWEVER, reverting to center ball successfully depends on the player's understanding that...at least for longer shots where approach error tolerance diminishes...the point of aim is NOT going to be the same as the geometric contact point due to CIT which can be offset with outside english.

So, players who go back to center ball to avoid sqwerve as much as possible need to remember to choose a different point of aim or they will miss many shots...unless they get with Stan Shuffett and learn his Pro One aiming system in which case contact points become a thing of the past as far as aiming is concerned.

(for clarity...the contact point is, of course, still there since to make a shot, it is important to contact the OB! (-:

It's just that the CP ceases to be part of the aiming technique.

And given your advocacy of center ball contact, you would be an especially appropriate candidate to learn the system because in its most basic form, the tip moves to the center of the ball as part of the aiming process.)

Regards,
Jim

PS: I own one of your original Sledgehammer B/J cues and LOVE IT!!!

I have used an aiming system that does not use the contact point for reference for the last 15 years or so, at least since my vision has changed to far sighted. I think it came naturally with the loss of reading vision. My worst shot I can't see is the edge to edge

 

[Rod]

I know which you mean from the context, but it's not clear in any way without that.

pj
chgo

Why not? In your world it's ok to shoot above or below center and still call it center.

Rod

 

[Patrick Johnson]

A good instructor never tells a beginner "Hit it center" but really means roll it forward.

A good instructor never uses such an ambiguous term at all, because "center" means too many different things to too many different people.

By the way, all the books teach hitting DEAD CENTER for straight in stop shots.

No, "all the books" don't. That's only the right way when the balls are close together or when shooting hard.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I know which you mean from the context, but it's not clear in any way without that.

pj
chgo

Why not? In your world it's ok to shoot above or below center and still call it center.

Rod

No, it's not OK - the exact hit should be specified because the word "center" means too many different things. It doesn't mean "dead center" to everybody.

pj
chgo

 

[Rod]

No, it's not OK - the exact hit should be specified because the word "center" means too many different things. It doesn't mean "dead center" to everybody.

pj
chgo

OK, to you it doesn't mean center, to me it does, simple. Why do we even need the term then? If I said put an X in the center of this paper circle; where would one put the X? I'd think they would try to X the center. However, you would say, I like the X down here it looks better that way. LOL I know what you mean but I think to most people center does mean center.

Rod

 

[mullyman]

OK, to you it doesn't mean center, to me it does, simple. Why do we even need the term then? If I said put an X in the center of this paper circle; where would one put the X? I'd think they would try to X the center. However, you would say, I like the X down here it looks better that way. LOL I know what you mean but I think to most people center does mean center.

Rod

No reason to waste your time, Rod. I'm sensing that Patrick is enjoying the argument. No reason to even continue this. If he actually believes that center means anything other than center then.........I don't even know what to say.
MULLY
See this dog? It's a cat.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

OK, to you it doesn't mean center, to me it does, simple.

That's nice, but I hardly ever talk to you, so I'll be more specific and keep advising others to be more specific too. Simple.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If he actually believes that center means anything other than center then.........I don't even know what to say.

If you think that everybody means what you mean when they say center then you'll simply be misunderstood a lot. No problem for me.

pj
chgo

 

[mullyman]

If you think that everybody means what you mean when they say center then you'll simply be misunderstood a lot. No problem for me.

pj
chgo

This is a square O

MULLY

 

[Cornerman]

No reason to even continue this. If he actually believes that center means anything other than center then.........I don't even know what to say..

Although it seems simple on the surface, this whole exchange is part of why the OP was asking in the first place. You'll need to read Mike Gulyassy's statement in one of his posts long and hard then reply to Patrick:

Common sense tells me that if I am on the rail strait in 8 foot from the winning ball, I am not going to hit with anything bur center ball.

Clearly, Mike is talking about hitting the cueball high if he's on the rail. Agree?

Fred <~~~ avoids dead center like the plague