"Beating the kiss" advice?

[Andrew Manning]

I don't play much one-pocket (partly because of how bad I am at it), but when I do, I notice that every decent one-pocket player I've seen seems to know something I don't know about how to avoid kisses in cross-banks. Not just offensive cross-banks, but safeties too. Catching a bad kiss during a cross bank can be the difference between a smart and effective shot, and selling out the entire game.

I guess there are multiple things you need to know for this:
Is there a kiss in this shot?
Does that kiss mean I need to avoid this shot altogether?
If this is a safety, can I adjust the cut angle to avoid the kiss?
If banking at the pocket, what sort of speed and spin will help me beat the kiss?

I don't know how to answer any of these questions, apart from trying something and then finding out whether it worked. Any advice for me? At this point, I don't have mush interest in cultivating a bank pool game, but a stronger one-pocket game would be nice, and the cross-banks drive me up a wall sometimes, when I sell out disastrously because I didn't know how to beat a kiss.

-Andrew

 

[sfleinen]

Freddy the Beard's materials

Andrew:

About the best advice I can offer is that you might want to take a look at Freddy the Beard's treatise on banking, namely "Banking with the Beard," "Banks that Don't Go but Do," and "The GosPool."

The first two are chock full of goodies on scoring banks that "normally" have a kiss built-in, how to "see" the kiss, and how to avoid it.

Really good stuff! :thumbup2:
-Sean

I don't play much one-pocket (partly because of how bad I am at it), but when I do, I notice that every decent one-pocket player I've seen seems to know something I don't know about how to avoid kisses in cross-banks. Not just offensive cross-banks, but safeties too. Catching a bad kiss during a cross bank can be the difference between a smart and effective shot, and selling out the entire game.

I guess there are multiple things you need to know for this:
Is there a kiss in this shot?
Does that kiss mean I need to avoid this shot altogether?
If this is a safety, can I adjust the cut angle to avoid the kiss?
If banking at the pocket, what sort of speed and spin will help me beat the kiss?

I don't know how to answer any of these questions, apart from trying something and then finding out whether it worked. Any advice for me? At this point, I don't have mush interest in cultivating a bank pool game, but a stronger one-pocket game would be nice, and the cross-banks drive me up a wall sometimes, when I sell out disastrously because I didn't know how to beat a kiss.

-Andrew

 

[sjb]

Here's one simple, and very general, rule:

If you could shoot the cue ball straight into the pocket you are banking away from (i.e., opposite from the pocket you are banking towards), there is no kiss. Stated another way, if the object ball you are shooting would not interfere with an attempt to shoot the cue ball straight into the pocket nearest the object ball, then you should not have a kiss.

Remember, though, you can make a kiss, or avoid one, in violation of this rule with speed and spin.

 

[Black-Balled]

I dunno, Manning. I wish there was some sort of formula to consider, would come in quite handy playing 3c!

I think it is just one of those things, you bump your head enough times, you stop doing whatever it is that makes you bump it!.

Did you know there is no kiss here:

CueTable Help

 

[Scott Lee]

Andrew...The advice to get Freddy's stuff is good. Here's a reasonable "rule of thumb" on kisses. If the OB is the same distance from both the short and long rail, the chance of a kiss is substancially increased (particularly when you get within 1 diamond of both rails). The kiss can sometimes be avoided using speed and spin (and sometimes not).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I don't play much one-pocket (partly because of how bad I am at it), but when I do, I notice that every decent one-pocket player I've seen seems to know something I don't know about how to avoid kisses in cross-banks. Not just offensive cross-banks, but safeties too. Catching a bad kiss during a cross bank can be the difference between a smart and effective shot, and selling out the entire game.

I guess there are multiple things you need to know for this:
Is there a kiss in this shot?
Does that kiss mean I need to avoid this shot altogether?
If this is a safety, can I adjust the cut angle to avoid the kiss?
If banking at the pocket, what sort of speed and spin will help me beat the kiss?

I don't know how to answer any of these questions, apart from trying something and then finding out whether it worked. Any advice for me? At this point, I don't have mush interest in cultivating a bank pool game, but a stronger one-pocket game would be nice, and the cross-banks drive me up a wall sometimes, when I sell out disastrously because I didn't know how to beat a kiss.

-Andrew

 

[Jaden]

It takes advanced knowledge...

I don't play much one-pocket (partly because of how bad I am at it), but when I do, I notice that every decent one-pocket player I've seen seems to know something I don't know about how to avoid kisses in cross-banks. Not just offensive cross-banks, but safeties too. Catching a bad kiss during a cross bank can be the difference between a smart and effective shot, and selling out the entire game.

I guess there are multiple things you need to know for this:
Is there a kiss in this shot?
Does that kiss mean I need to avoid this shot altogether?
If this is a safety, can I adjust the cut angle to avoid the kiss?
If banking at the pocket, what sort of speed and spin will help me beat the kiss?

I don't know how to answer any of these questions, apart from trying something and then finding out whether it worked. Any advice for me? At this point, I don't have mush interest in cultivating a bank pool game, but a stronger one-pocket game would be nice, and the cross-banks drive me up a wall sometimes, when I sell out disastrously because I didn't know how to beat a kiss.

-Andrew

It's going to be on a case by case basis.

Do you know how to alter banks using side spin?

the majority of the missed kisses in cross banking in one pocket involve using inside spin to change two angles.

The angle that you hit the OB into the rail it's banking from and the the angle the CB takes after it hits the rail just after the contact with the OB.

The inside puts the opposite english on the OB, this allows you to hit it thinner and the spin will rebound the OB towards the pocket.

The inside then makes the CB rebound off the head rail toward the rail that the OB just rebounded from. This helps to avoid a second collision or kiss.

that's the most common I've seen, but it really depends on the approach angle distance from the rail etc....

If you learn how to use side spin to alter the banking angles, it will help you tremendously playing one pocket...

Jaden

 

[Paul Mon]

You've got lots of good advice. I'm inclined to use inside spin and shoot the shot softer than what you think is normal. The Beard books are tremendous.

Paul