Bem

[DJKeys]

I was interested in the opinions of the AZ group on this. I have a good friend who is a wood turner and he said that the "eyes" in Birdseye Maple are actually imperfections or knots in the wood. That being said, it would follow that "nicely figured" birdseye maple with a lot of eyes would be less solid than a piece of maple without figuring. I really don't know if it makes any difference in the hit, but I was curious as to why cuemakers these days use highly figured pieces of maple rather than those with less "imperfections".

Do the imperfections have any effect on the hit of a cue with a BEM nose, or are they so minute that it wouldn't matter and the cue looks more interesting?

Thanks for any input on this.

 

[despotic931]

Well while I know little about cue building I have been doing wood working for as long as I've been able, including lathe work. The "eyes" are indeed small imperfections, however knots are actually denser than the surrounding wood. How this effects the "hit" of a pool cue I don't honestly know, thats just my 2 cents.

On that subject one of my scariest experiances on a lathe was a result of me not paying attention and catching a knot on a bowl that I was turning, the resulting "bowl shaped missile" shot across the shop at a speed very close to Mach 2

 

[Island Drive]

I was interested in the opinions of the AZ group on this. I have a good friend who is a wood turner and he said that the "eyes" in Birdseye Maple are actually imperfections or knots in the wood. That being said, it would follow that "nicely figured" birdseye maple with a lot of eyes would be less solid than a piece of maple without figuring. I really don't know if it makes any difference in the hit, but I was curious as to why cuemakers these days use highly figured pieces of maple rather than those with less "imperfections".

Do the imperfections have any effect on the hit of a cue with a BEM nose, or are they so minute that it wouldn't matter and the cue looks more interesting?

Thanks for any input on this.

Because they are able to get more $$$$ because of the natural beauty. Burl wood is probably a good example of furniture that too brings bigger bucks because of its look. I think you bring up and intersesting point tho. With the natural grain being of such a concern for shaft wood, wonder how a butt with the same grain, no figured wood could hit. There's a possibility the wood may be lighter and the sound of the cue lessened??

 

[ez2h8]

I would agree it's about the natural beauty and people paying big bucks for the variances/imperfections. I never heard anything about how knots affect the hit of a cue. I know from experience, you take 2 identical cues put them side by side, one with lots of birdseye and one with less, more people will pick the cue with more birdseye. It just looks like a fancier cue. I can speak of birdseye maple cues this way and cocobola cues.

ez

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Probably more than you would like to know about it........
For your reading pleasure....http://pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/rp/rppdf/x99-155.pdf

 

[TATE]

I was interested in the opinions of the AZ group on this. I have a good friend who is a wood turner and he said that the "eyes" in Birdseye Maple are actually imperfections or knots in the wood. That being said, it would follow that "nicely figured" birdseye maple with a lot of eyes would be less solid than a piece of maple without figuring. I really don't know if it makes any difference in the hit, but I was curious as to why cuemakers these days use highly figured pieces of maple rather than those with less "imperfections".

Do the imperfections have any effect on the hit of a cue with a BEM nose, or are they so minute that it wouldn't matter and the cue looks more interesting?

Thanks for any input on this.

I used to woodwork as a hobby. What I've found is birdseye in general is a good, hard, stable wood. In larger pieces, like those used in forearms, it is very strong. I like a nice tight grain pattern. I don't see any difference in the durability or hit between straight grain and birdseye.

The reason why a woodworker might think birdseye is different is because it's more difficult to tool than straight grain. You get tear out and so forth because the grain is running all different directions. Sometimes you get birdseye that is very fibrous and it tears instead of cuts. It's like working with end grain. Routing clean grooves in BEM you have to keep your bits sharp.

In thin wood, like shafts and veneers, large birdseyes will definitely make the parts more brittle and prone to breakage. Basically, the smaller and tighter the eyes, the better.

I've seen some cues with birdseye and curly figured maple develop what I call "smiles". These are cracks along the surface and they're pretty deep too. I have no idea what causes them except I can speculate that there was a weakness in the wood caused by the figure and opened up by wood movement. It should be no surprise that cues with smiles are usually warped as well, and if that's the case, warpage is the problem, not the figure.

Chris

 

[TATE]

Here's a better comparison for you. These three shafts are made from birdseye, pretty large eyes with lots of figure. The two shafts on the left hit great, just like dense maple, and weigh 4.5 ounces each - pretty heavy for a shaft. This is good because how birdseye "hits' would be much more obvious in a shaft.

The shaft on the right cracked at the intersection of two big eyes that were next to each other. It probably split because someone leaned it on a wall and tripped. Because the grain was running different directions, this created a weakness in the thin shaft wood. I am sure forearms are too thick to be affected in this manner and I've never seen a straight grained maple shaft crack in this fashion.

 

[despotic931]

Here's a better comparison for you. These three shafts are made from birdseye, pretty large eyes with lots of figure. The two shafts on the left hit great, just like dense maple, and weigh 4.5 ounces each - pretty heavy for a shaft. This is good because how birdseye "hits' would be much more obvious in a shaft.

The shaft on the right cracked at the intersection of two big eyes that were next to each other. It probably split because someone leaned it on a wall and tripped. Because the grain was running different directions, this created a weakness in the thin shaft wood. I am sure forearms are too thick to be affected in this manner and I've never seen a straight grained maple shaft crack in this fashion.

I've never seen birdseye shafts before, do they still make em?

 

[X Breaker]

From what I understand, no one really knows what causes the birdseye to appear in maple, is that correct?

What exactly is an imperfection in wood? Is it something that would make the wood weaker? Is it because it is more porous? Or is it because of the direction of the growth? Is it something more unstable?

Is there solid proof that birdseye is indeed a defect?

Nowadays, we do a lot of coring with forearm and sometimes handle (e.g. we core all the forearm and handle of the curly maple X Breaker), so even if a certain material is a bit weaker, in my opinion, it should not affect the structure too much.

 

[pdcue]

Once again, trhe Birdseye misunderstanding

I was interested in the opinions of the AZ group on this. I have a good friend who is a wood turner and he said that the "eyes" in Birdseye Maple are actually imperfections or knots in the wood. That being said, it would follow that "nicely figured" birdseye maple with a lot of eyes would be less solid than a piece of maple without figuring. I really don't know if it makes any difference in the hit, but I was curious as to why cuemakers these days use highly figured pieces of maple rather than those with less "imperfections".

Do the imperfections have any effect on the hit of a cue with a BEM nose, or are they so minute that it wouldn't matter and the cue looks more interesting?

Thanks for any input on this.

First off, birdseyes are certainly not knots.

birdseye figure, most common in maple, but occuring in other species,
is not a defect, not a desease, not caused by stress, nor the result of
insect infesstation...

I think I've covered all the most popular urban legends about Birdseye
Maple.

as far as suitability for cues goes, in my experience, roughly 20 years
of working with BEM, the hard<sugar maple>variety is just as stable and
'strong' as straight grained maple, tho I did have reservations about
the intensely figured pieces when I first started.

My favorite theory for why some people insist on thinking BEM
must be suspect is based on, of all things, pianos...

Once upon a time, when this was still America, and we still made things,
one of the products of industry was the piano. One of the components
of a piano was a maple contraption called the 'piano action'.

Eventually there came to be a commercial grade of lumber known as
'piano action maple', which was straight grained, hard maple that was
within a stated tolerance for gran runoff, AND, not containing any
knots or voids, bark inclusions, and various other defects.
Also not allowed, but not a structural defect were figure effects like,
birdseye, curl, highlights, pin speck, etc.

SO, birdseye figure could keep a board from being classified
as piano action grade, but that never did make it 'defective'

FWIW - the PA grade was the early standard for cue shaft wood,
tho, these days the requirement for grain runoff is much more stringent
for shafts

Dale

 

[TATE]

I've never seen birdseye shafts before, do they still make em?

Burton Spain made the one on the right long ago, over 25 years ago I would say, and Joel Hercek made the two on the left in recent times from Burton's old birdseye shaft stock.

You could have birdseye made into shafts, but for durability I would recommend the wood with very tiny eyes and very even figure. It really does make an interesting looking shaft. These shafts here hit great. Edwin Reyes mentioned he uses tight grain birdseye for shafts.

Chris

 

[DJKeys]

Wow, that is so interesting, what a knowledgeable group! Thank you all for your input and insight. This is like being in school with 20 teaches per student!

AZ is great.....

 

[daytonajoe]

I have a Jack Madden that has a curly maple shaft, and it is the best performing sahft I have ever screwed on a cue. and is much more dense than most of the other i have

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Not all BEM is the same.............of course this is just one mans opinion!
The perfect piece of bird is one of the most sought after woods in my travels. With it there is no better playing, feeling, hitting, stroking, smelling, tasting, and good looking cue in the world! But it must have certain characteristics to qualify..........
#1........nice even display of eyes.
#2........tight.....1.5" should have a min of 25 years across it.
#3........must be straight G'd from end to end....absolutely no run off.
Some pics for your viewing pleasures.........these two pieces will end up being one cue....wrapless of course....they are brother and sister end to end off the same stock.
Enjoy......

I'm looking for BEM to buy...........paying top dollar!

 

[DJKeys]

Dave-

Thanks for the link to the article and the great pics. I now know more about Sugar Maple than I ever thought I would-

 

[acedotcom]

Here's the butt of a Palmer I bought 2nd hand back in the 70's. BEM with no inlays. It's purty, durable, and hits solid.

It weighs 20.5 ounces and I'm using it to break.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Here's the butt of a Palmer I bought 2nd hand back in the 70's. BEM with no inlays. It's purty, durable, and hits solid.

It weighs 20.5 ounces and I'm using it to break.

Back end pics?

I think I'll start a collection of just plain BEM cues.
Front and back must be solid.............
I'm going to start a thread right now!