Best All Around Player of the Present and Recent Past???

[jalapus logan]

I refuse to accept that 9 ball or 10 ball define the great players of our game and I lament that other games don't get their fair share of the credit....I enjoy each of the major games, specifically, 8 ball, the rotation variants, 14.1, onepocket and banks. Therefore, who is the greatest pool player is the one that best executes the skill sets required to perform at the upper echelon of ALL of those games.

Toward that goal, how to measure greatness...Fargo doesn't measure all of the games, just 8 ball, 9 ball and 10 ball if I recall correctly. Maybe the DCC all round title holders can provide a glimpse into the matter?

Behold for your consideration (dare I guess based on this data that Efren is the man???):

 

[jalapus logan]

And then again, what would the "recent past" encapulate? The DCC began after the peaks of the likes of Nick Varner and more. But wait, at 42 years of age, Is the "recent past" not so recent after all? LOL ...:crying:

 

[nine_ball6970]

I refuse to accept that 9 ball or 10 ball define the great players of our game and I lament that other games don't get their fair share of the credit....I enjoy each of the major games, specifically, 8 ball, the rotation variants, 14.1, onepocket and banks. Therefore, who is the greatest pool player is the one that best executes the skill sets required to perform at the upper echelon of ALL of those games.

Toward that goal, how to measure greatness...Fargo doesn't measure all of the games, just 8 ball, 9 ball and 10 ball if I recall correctly. Maybe the DCC all round title holders can provide a glimpse into the matter?

Behold for your consideration (dare I guess based on this data that Efren is the man???):

The most amazing fact is that Efren has done it 5 times and was 44 years old when the event started. Imagine if derby had been around in his early 20s and he had played 20 more of them while younger!

 

[bbb]

The most amazing fact is that Efren has done it 5 times and was 44 years old when the event started. Imagine if derby had been around in his early 20s and he had played 20 more of them while younger!

Excellent observation

 

[Black-Balled]

Neil's feijin deserves consideration before a lot of the folks presented.

 

[Qaddiction]

For younger US players, Skyler W. and Billy T. are going to be in the running for the all around at Derby for the next several years. I believe... lol

 

[BRLongArm]

Using the below games as criteria, here is my list:

one pocket
rotation
straight pool
banks
eight ball

Asia: Orcullo and Bustamante
North America: Pagulayan and Van Boening
Europe: Feijen and Shaw

Honorable mention: Deuel

No 1: Orcullo: Multiple time US open Straight pool champion, rotation champion, one pocket champion, eight ball champion, banks champion
No. 2: Pagulayan: Multiple time one pocket champion, rotation champion, banks champion; 200 ball runner in straight pool, eight ball champion
No. 3: Van Boening: multiple time rotation champion, eight ball champion, one pocket champion, world class bank pool player, 200 ball runner in straight pool

 

[jalapus logan]

For younger US players, Skyler W. and Billy T. are going to be in the running for the all around at Derby for the next several years. I believe... lol

Sky is already on the list...class of 2019. I agree, he has a great chance to repeat.

 

[jalapus logan]

Using the below games as criteria, here is my list:

one pocket
rotation
straight pool
banks
eight ball

Asia: Orcullo and Bustamante


Yes, Bustamante seems to be overlooked repeatedly throughout pool history...due to his crazy stroke??? Lol.

Seriously, Bustamante has 3 overall champ titles to his credit, with the most recent 2018 title...wow! That's 2nd most DCC all 'round titles next to Efren's 5...I'd say that's pretty sporty. Super fun player to watch too. Anyone remember that insane 10 ball package he ran in the Bigfoot one year? Do I remember correctly that he ran 7 straight racks????

 

[King T]

Good point!

The most amazing fact is that Efren has done it 5 times and was 44 years old when the event started. Imagine if derby had been around in his early 20s and he had played 20 more of them while younger!

That's way Efren is not to be compared to, when it comes to who was the best all around its not close. Efren!

 

[marikian]

great thread

 

[Mole Eye]

Thorsten Hohmann should be considered.

 

[jalapus logan]

Thorsten Hohmann should be considered.

Straight shooter and champ for sure, also great guy for pool...but not known to be esp. good at banks nor has he excelled in onepocket to my knowledge. Therefore not in the discussion, IMO...BUT, maybe one day?

 

[jalapus logan]

Neil's feijin deserves consideration before a lot of the folks presented.

I saw Larry Price sink a double long rail bank at a long ago DCC to seal the match against Feijen. It was all Larry from that point on. Larry told me right after the match "that shot wilted him"...LOL. RIP Larry.

Feijen may be up there, but does he have any bank or onehole credentials for our consideration?

Edit: before this match, I didn't know that Feijen was capable of "wilting" lol...played too strong

 

[kkdanamatt]

My list:
Pagulayan and Orcollo are currently the best all-around.
Alex is the favorite in 1-pocket; Dennis is the favorite in 14.1.
Pick 'em in 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and Banks.

SVB is the best 9-Ball and 10-Ball player, but falls a bit short in 1-pocket and 14.1.
SVB also is one of the best 8-Ball players.
I don't know how to rank his Bank Pool game against Bustamante, Thorpe, Orcollo, Melling, etc.
SVB is considered the best all-around in a winner's break match format and long sets.

Appleton, at his former best, was an 8-Ball, 9-Ball and 14.1 World Champion. Darren's banking is excellent, too, but he is certainly second best to either Alex and Dennis in 1-pocket.

Corey deserves a mention, but always seems to fall short to either Alex, Dennis, and Shane.

Bustamante's only "weak" game is 14.1. Otherwise, he could be considered as best.
Of course, he's somewhat past his prime.

If we consider players who are no longer in their prime, then Efren and Nick Varner are slam-dunk choices.

Efren has won championships in every game on both pool and billiard tables, except
for 14.1, which is never played in the Philippines. Efren told me that he was at his prime well before his came to the USA in 1985 at the age of 31.
I wish we had the chance to turn back the clock and see Efren play at age 18!

I saw Nick Varner in his prime and he was dominant in every game.
In fact, he is the only man to hold World Championships in 14.1, 8-Ball, 9-Ball,
1-Pocket, and Banks.

There are a few other players who deserve mentioning here:
Jose' Parica, Allen Hopkins, Harold Worst, and Luther Lassiter.
Jose' and Hopkins were fierce money players, who rarely lost.
I never saw Worst play, but many old-timers say he was the best all-around during his brief career.
Lassiter was well past his prime when I saw him play in Atlantic City's Last Call for 9-Ball, but his all-around game is legendary.

The great European players current and recent past, like Mika, Ralf, Niels, Jayson, Oliver Ortmann, Thorsten, etc., all fail to make the list because they don't really reach the top levels in 1-Pocket.

Have I left out someone?

 

[sjm]

I refuse to accept that 9 ball or 10 ball define the great players of our game and I lament that other games don't get their fair share of the credit....

Learn to accept it. I believe the other games get their fair share of the credit, but that they are not due that much credit in the first place.

Personally, I love the fringe games, but they lie on the periphery of our sport. I've met a few top Europeans who had never even heard of bank pool before they came to the Derby. In some, though fewer, cases, they'd never seen one pocket played before, either.

Though eight ball is the confirmed king of all games in amateur pool, nine ball is the only game that every serious player plays and is the game that decides the world championship in our sport, much as straight pool once did. Hence, it is nine ball that aspiring professionals all over the world strive to master, and no game other than nine ball offers any real income prospects to aspiring professionals, as probably more than 95% of all pro pool tournaments play nine ball. This is the nine ball era, and, consequently, nine ball is the measuring stick for greatness.

Other games, of course, evidence and/or validate all-around skills, but I can't fault any player that chooses not to play fringe games like bank pool, one pocket or straight pool. Like you, however, I have deepest admiration for those that master all the games.

Names like Lassiter, Worst, Varner, Sigel, Reyes, Pagulayan, Van Boening and Orcullo will surely be remembered as the ones who excelled at everything. Are we to leave Mosconi, Greenleaf, and Crane out of the conversation of greatest ever because their incomparable excellence was chiefly in just one discipline? No, they excelled in straight pool in the straight pool era and that's all that mattered back then.

I'm not buying the argument that to be the best player you must master all the disciplines, but you MUST master the discipline of your day. For Mosconi, Greenleaf, and Crane, that meant straight pool. Today, that means nine ball.

 

[9BallKY]

I saw Larry Price sink a double long rail bank at a long ago DCC to seal the match against Feijen. It was all Larry from that point on. Larry told me right after the match "that shot wilted him"...LOL. RIP Larry.

Feijen may be up there, but does he have any bank or onehole credentials for our consideration?

Edit: before this match, I didn't know that Feijen was capable of "wilting" lol...played too strong

Feijen finished 2nd in the DCC one pocket in 2016 if I’m not mistaken.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Nick Varner IMO, is the best all around player if someone had to compete and win at all levels and games.

I am a huge fan of Efren, maybe the GOAT, but he never got to compete in college and I have never heard of competing in 14.1.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Ken

 

[jayburger]

That's way Efren is not to be compared to, when it comes to who was the best all around its not close. Efren!

( I agree 100 percent) efren could beat the best player in any game... period. The best ever in pocket billiards..EFREN

 

[PoolBum]

I am a huge fan of Efren, maybe the GOAT, but he never got to compete in college and I have never heard of competing in 14.1.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Ken

Efren won the Maine Event 14.1 in 1995. I think he also made the finals of the world 14.1 tournament one year, and had the high run in the U.S. Open 14.1 one year.