Best Bar Box Player in the World?

There are many great bar box players. To say who is the best on any given day is a coin flip. There are many that any of us have never heard of and quite possibly may have been the best ever. However, currently there are a few that come to mind and David Matlock, Keith McCready are both on the list. Chad Vilmont and Jamie baraks are also up there but when it came to the big dough my money has always been on Leil Gay. If you don't know who he is I would like to keep it that way but he has always had my financial support when it came to the dough on a bar table.

Mj
 
Jimmy M. said:
Grady, I hope you read my post and reply because you really have me curious here. Do you really think that today's generation of champion players play better? Where would you put Sigel or Buddy (in their primes) with today's young champions?
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Well Grady may not say anything about it but there is enough video footage of Sigel playing in his prime out there that it is not too difficult to rank him in the field of todays players and see how he would do. Sigel in his prime in todays world of pool would be as dominate as he was in his own time. The guy had ALL the tools and had zero weaknesses. He broke well, he potted balls as good as anyone, he played perfect shape, he had a master safety game, he could kick the ball as good as virtually anyone, and most important the guy had the confidence and heart when the chips were on the table that noone else could compare with. All you have to do is go to Accustats and buy up 5 or 10 videos of Sigel to see how good he really was. Hall on the other hand, little footage of him in his prime really exists, he was a touch too early but I am sure he would have been a pretty feared player in todays game.

In asking the question and Grady answering that people are better now you must take into account that those champs of the past got as good as they NEEDED to be. If the scene is tougher it would have drove Sigel and Hall to be even better then they were through the added competition and such. Both had the heart and skills of top pros and as such if the scene is truely tougher now then it is likely they would be even better today in their prime then they were back in the older days. Mosconi would have dominated pool these days just like he did in the past, he had that certain thing that makes a person a legend of the game and that would not change. He would be as far above the competition today as he was in the past even if that means he had to reach a higher level of actual play based on the tougher scene. Same thing for Sigel, if you dominated an era you would dominate any era, you had that natural ability and killer instinct that made you better then all the other people in the world and that does not go away. We all know that the best way to get good is to play the best players and immerse yourself in the toughest pool scene you can. That is why Sigel or Mosconi or Hall would be even more powerful today if they were in their prime as compared to the past (if you are one that truely believes the scene is tougher now). Sigel and Mosconi and Hall would torture the players of today if they came up in todays pool world. By the same token you can take Gabe Owen, Danny Basavich, Jeremy Jones, Mika Immonen, Alex Pagulayan and any other player of today and be sure that if they had come up in the era of Sigel or Hall or Mosconi they would have been weaker players then they are today in that era (if you are of the thinking that the older eras were indeed weaker scenes). They would have fallen into place, and their place would have been playing second fiddle to Sigel or Mosconi if they ever had the misfortune of having those players be their contemporaries.
 
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You guys can pick any of these players your mentioning and put your money on him,i'll take Efren and your cash.
 
Bob Romano said:
Hey MJ!

Who's the best from the quads these days? Chad, Jamie or Jesse?

Eydie
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Jamie Baraks.
I believe Jamies winning percentage is higher than anybody mentioned.

Chad is also a very impressive and methodical player but I saw him dog too many easy shots ath the Music City Open. He may have won the event but that doesn't call for a ranking of being the best.

Jesse may be a great player but I don't have enough stats on him to make a correct prediction.

Mj
 
best bar table player

i was there when corey and brian played too...... and it was before anyone knew about corey and the rack your own....corey will beat anyone in the world playin rack your one......including efren!!!!!!.......if corey wants to give up the eight again i know for a fact brian will play again.....and jesse bowman can bet as much as he wants playin brian dead even on the bar table.........and i am not trying to woof just sayin it how i know it.........
 
best bar table player

and to your mentioning of lining giving brian the 6.........lining put down a 10 just to get even..........and if lining were to come to indy to play that game again he could bet at min $50000...............
 
The Kid said:
You guys can pick any of these players your mentioning and put your money on him,i'll take Efren and your cash.
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I didn't mention Efren because he's still playing great today, and still beating today's champions. Obviously none of the players out there like it against him, otherwise you'd see people trying to play him. I never hear of anyone playing him even. He's always giving up weight.

As far as Sigel and Hall go, I think those guys in their primes would be just as dominant today as they were back then, if not more so. That is why I was surprised to hear Grady's take on it and wanted to hear more.

If I would have been there, and not been a 12 or 13 year old kid, I would have been one of the ones losing money on Efren because that is where I would have bet, but Buddy Hall is the only man that I know of to beat Efren for the cash playing even (the story goes that Efren had been up for days playing before hand -- I was 12 or 13 and wasn't there, so that's second-hand information).
 
big pun said:
corey will beat anyone in the world playin rack your one......
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big pun,
You may be in error in your assessment (assuming you are speaking of Corey Deuel, and assuming you are saying "rack your own"). While Corey is a fine player, it was interesting to view his match with George Breedlove at DCC. Corey racked his own, and racked for George also - result = George rolled right over him.
 
JimS said:
I watched James Baraks beat Parica twice to take off a tournament at Whiteys in Burlington Ia. a couple years back and not long ago he beat JJ twice to take off a tourney in, I think, Memphis.
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I never saw him miss a shot at DCC.
 
Bob Romano said:
I made a post and mentioned Jesse Bowman being the best bar box player (In my opinion only) in the world. It drew controversery ~ Ok, let's hear it, who is the best in your opinion?

Eydie
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When I am bombed out of my mind, NOBODY beats me
on a bar table. ( at least I don't remember anybody
beating me).
 
Now The Best Player In The World Needs Weight???

big pun said:
i was there when corey and brian played too...... and it was before anyone knew about corey and the rack your own....corey will beat anyone in the world playin rack your one......including efren!!!!!!.......if corey wants to give up the eight again i know for a fact brian will play again.....and jesse bowman can bet as much as he wants playin brian dead even on the bar table.........and i am not trying to woof just sayin it how i know it.........
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Please excuse me for asking, but how did it go from Brian Groce being the best bar box player in the world to him needing to get the eight??? Not that the eight would really matter, but if you really think Brian is the best, let me know and Corey and I will be there and you can play your 50k set.
 
This thread is an example of how 9ball results can be different at any given time. A guy can put 10 racks in a row down today, but tomorrow might only put 5 racks in a row, and lose due to someone playing better. There is no ONE best player in the world on a bar box.

I do have a video of Corey and Feils playing a race to 9 on a bar box 8ball, and Corey pretty much made it look like an "executive table". :)
 
Bob Romano said:
I made a post and mentioned Jesse Bowman being the best bar box player (In my opinion only) in the world. It drew controversery ~ Ok, let's hear it, who is the best in your opinion? Eydie
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I have a 1994 video - Bartable Billiards - featuring bar table king Dave Matlock. In it he plays Mizerak and Archer. Granted, it was a made for sale video but those two guys had no chance against him. And they called him the king.

Dave does state in the video that he has run 9 racks on a bar table.

Jake
 
back in the late 70's early 80's, i saw a lean fella named "tre" break and run 23 racks, and ran over 20 the next night. no one ever bothered to gamble without asking for some ridiculous spot, so he mostly played by himself or just to show off(like one-handed or banks). i assume he was a good gambler because he was always willing to listen to a SANE proposition. :):):)
 
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bruin70 said:
back in the late 70's early 80's, i saw a lean fella named "tre" break and run 23 racks, and ran over 20 the next night. no one ever bothered to gamble without asking for some ridiculous spot, so he mostly played by himself or just to show off(like one-handed or banks). i assume he was a good gambler because he was always willing to listen to a SANE proposition. :):):)
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IIRC, Danny Medina told me that he ran 29 on a bar table during a ring game at Dubb's Pub in Denver in the early 80s. I talked to the owner of the bar who was there that night and he said that he wasn't sure how many, but it was a lot. He also said that that broke up the game and Danny didn't miss to end the run and so he could have gone more, but wouldn't do it for free.

Cheers,
Regas
 
sixpack said:
IIRC, Danny Medina told me that he ran 29 on a bar table during a ring game at Dubb's Pub in Denver in the early 80s. I talked to the owner of the bar who was there that night and he said that he wasn't sure how many, but it was a lot. He also said that that broke up the game and Danny didn't miss to end the run and so he could have gone more, but wouldn't do it for free.

Cheers,
Regas
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kinda bespeaks more about the weakness of the game, if you ask me. this guy ran 20's regularly, and had a high run of 30-something. i caught the last 15 racks the first night,,,and the full run the second night. he got a free beer whenever he broke 25. went home drunk often i was told.

i mean,,,,,at what point does it get so ridiculous that "the best" has no meaning?
 
bruin70 said:
kinda bespeaks more about the weakness of the game, if you ask me. this guy ran 20's regularly, and had a high run of 30-something. i caught the last 15 racks the first night,,,and the full run the second night. he got a free beer whenever he broke 25. went home drunk often i was told.

i mean,,,,,at what point does it get so ridiculous that "the best" has no meaning?
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Yep. I used to have a college professor who said that if anyone got a 100% on an exam, it wasn't fair to the perfect score because they weren't allowed to fully distinguish how much better they were than the rest of the class.

Sometimes I feel like barbox 9-ball is the same way.

btw - I was at a barbox 8-ball tournament with James Walden, David Matlock, Jamie and Jesse Bowen, Chad Vilmont, Dave Gomez, Cliff Joyner, Danny Medina and Gabe Owen...It wasn't even close, Gabe outclassed the field--and that was before he got serious.

Cheers,
Regas
 
bruin70 said:
back in the late 70's early 80's, i saw a lean fella named "tre" break and run 23 racks, and ran over 20 the next night. no one ever bothered to gamble without asking for some ridiculous spot, so he mostly played by himself or just to show off(like one-handed or banks). i assume he was a good gambler because he was always willing to listen to a SANE proposition. :):):)
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I think I know the guy you're talking about, skinny
slicked backed hair. I saw him gambling in NY around
'86' or '87. I was new to pool at the time and so
wasn't aware at the time that I was seeing something
extraordinary. He strung racks like nobodies
business. The other players were in awe though. I
don't doubt that he could run over 20 racks.

The guy he was playing was getting the 5 and out
and he was A or A+ player. But it didn't matter he
never got a chance to shoot, it might as well have
been the 1 and out! I got the impression he was
from the south. What struck me was how at ease he
seemed no matter what kind of shot he had, he was
more relaxed than Efren. I was so shook up that an
unknown could play that good that I almost quit
playing pool! Never saw him again.
 
They played once in my home town, Springfield Ohio. Corey was soft breaking perfectly playing rack your own that he just ran the same pattern over and over. Corey won the 10 ahead and brian asked for the first break the next set, Corey declined.

Kevin

billychips said:
BIG PUN,
Would like to set up a match between Brian Groce and Corey. I know Brian and Denver so lets see if we can get a game. It would be great to watch and we can bet as much as Columbus, Indiana wants. But be careful, they played a few years back on a bar box, 10 ahead for a few pennies, and Brian won one game. Let me know!
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