scott frost.
Best Black Players Of All Time
- Thread starter Walt Frazier
- Start date
Detroit Slim
There was a great black player named Detroit Slim. I would love to know his real name. I never got to see him play, but I heard a lot about him from players like Babyface Whitlow. He was a 30s, 40s and 50s guy. An old-time, weak-speed shortstop told me Slim used to play him ten or no-count One pocket on a 5 x 10! I know Hubert Cokes used to play weaker players eight or no-count on a 4 1/2 x 9, but Slim's spot was the greatest I ever heard of.
the Beard
There was a great black player named Detroit Slim. I would love to know his real name. I never got to see him play, but I heard a lot about him from players like Babyface Whitlow. He was a 30s, 40s and 50s guy. An old-time, weak-speed shortstop told me Slim used to play him ten or no-count One pocket on a 5 x 10! I know Hubert Cokes used to play weaker players eight or no-count on a 4 1/2 x 9, but Slim's spot was the greatest I ever heard of.
the Beard
freddy the beard said:
Fred,
Is this the famous Rotation Slim, who was another great black player? I believe he was also from Detroit. I wonder if it could be the same guy.
Shake and Bake a/k/a Edgar White
Originally from Norfolk, Edgar White began playing pool in 1949 as a young'n.
One day, Luther Lassiter came to town to do an exhibition, and Edgar was recognized as the area's best player. He was chosen to play Lassiter in a straight pool contest. Lassiter spotted a talent in Edgar and went on to practice with him every day. Edgar was thrilled to learn from the great Luther Lassiter, and he ended up driving 43 miles from his home in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, every single day as a teenager to learn from the famous pool icon.
Edgar White went on to become known as a man who enjoyed games of stake, traveling to Detroit, Baltimore, and finally ending up in Rome, Georgia, where he operated a pool room.
It is players like this that fly under the radar and are often unnoticed, but they definitely make up the fabric of American pool. Not a lot of folks know how great the legend of Shake and Bake truly was, but he definitely is considered one of the last of a rare breed!
JAM
Originally from Norfolk, Edgar White began playing pool in 1949 as a young'n.
One day, Luther Lassiter came to town to do an exhibition, and Edgar was recognized as the area's best player. He was chosen to play Lassiter in a straight pool contest. Lassiter spotted a talent in Edgar and went on to practice with him every day. Edgar was thrilled to learn from the great Luther Lassiter, and he ended up driving 43 miles from his home in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, every single day as a teenager to learn from the famous pool icon.
Edgar White went on to become known as a man who enjoyed games of stake, traveling to Detroit, Baltimore, and finally ending up in Rome, Georgia, where he operated a pool room.
It is players like this that fly under the radar and are often unnoticed, but they definitely make up the fabric of American pool. Not a lot of folks know how great the legend of Shake and Bake truly was, but he definitely is considered one of the last of a rare breed!
JAM
These are the kind of threads that make me love AZB. It really doesn't matter to me one iota whether a player or person is black, white or any other colour. You could ask who was the greatest left or right handed player, it's just another way to break down the history of this game that we all love.
I've said before that my knowledge of the history of pool & the great players is very poor (Bad part about being a Brit!). Threads like this & the stories it produces are pure gold to me, I love reading this stuff! Makes me appreciate the game & its characters even more.
I need to find some good books to read. Get the hint Jay?
I've said before that my knowledge of the history of pool & the great players is very poor (Bad part about being a Brit!). Threads like this & the stories it produces are pure gold to me, I love reading this stuff! Makes me appreciate the game & its characters even more.
I need to find some good books to read. Get the hint Jay?
JAM said:
Thanks Jam. Shake could play. And he was one of the all time happiest guys I ever met. Always with a big smile on his face, like the cat that got the canary. He had that Tommy Kennedy type of infectious smile. When you saw it, you had to smile too.
And he was everyones friend. Even the guys he beat (and there were many) had to like him. He was like Jersey Red that way, beating on you and making you laugh about it. I never heard about him having a problem with anyone.
He died way too young, about 10-15 years ago. I suspect he was in his 50's. I never heard the Lassiter connection before, so thanks for that. Interesting in that Luther was a Southern boy, and him taking a young black player under his wing. Goes to show you, that Pool is a color blind sport.
Edgar won one of Richie's first tournaments in Vegas back in about 1979 I believe. It was the year before Monk beat Sigel in the finals. He beat "Little" Al Romero in the finals. I saw a photo posted here of that final match once. I think it was Bill Porter who posted it. You can see me sitting on the sidelines sweating it. With Greg Sullivan. Keith played in that one.
Shake came back out to the left coast to play in the Peter Vitalie Invitational in 1987. He is on the video made at that event. He also played in Richies other big tournaments in the 80's at the Caesars hotels. Las Vegas liked his nickname so much, it began to appear in ads for one of the major strip hotels. Shake (the dice) and Bake (the sun) in Vegas. He should've got a royalty.
I'm not sure where Willie Munson fits in but I remember him playing pretty good when I was a kid and first started playing. By the time I had somewhat of a clue of how people played, I believe he was already past his prime. I haven't read this entire thread but I saw a lot of posts with names that I would have figured to see, but I didn't see Willie's name (though someone else might have posted it and I just didn't see it). How did he play in relation to the top players when he was in his prime?
Edit: I stand corrected. I see a few people did mention Willie Munson.
Edit: I stand corrected. I see a few people did mention Willie Munson.
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Jimmy M. said:
Willie still plays good. He was maybe a ball under the top players of his era. In his home state, perhaps only Jeff Carter was rated over him. And George Pawelski for the cash.
Willie and I hooked up in a little Banks in both our primes, and when it was over he paid me the highest compliment while paying me off. His words were "I had no idea you played so well". Thanks Willie for being a good man.
By the way, Willie finished second one year in the World Series of Tavern Pool. This was in the early 80's and none other than Richie Florence beat him in the finals. It was a close match with Willie making a spectacular jump shot in a key game, only to scratch in the side. That was the turning point. 25 years ago and it paid $25,000 for first!
before anyone gets too carried away with this pc stuff, and this thread takes on an unecessary tangent,,,i saw no problem with the op's question. when a "greatest" is asked, there seems to be very few black players mentioned. the result is the list of black players probably includes those MOST of us are not familiar with, with the exception of the more famous. someone listed a top ten, I NEVER HEARD OF ANY SAVE THE TOP THREE.
let's just say, this thread gives us the opportunity to recognize some players who deserve some recognition.
oops too late. already on the 4th page well THIS was a wasted post!!
let's just say, this thread gives us the opportunity to recognize some players who deserve some recognition.
oops too late. already on the 4th page
well THIS was a wasted post!!
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ShootingArts said:
Wrapped up in white liberal guilt? You can't be serious.
Three posts were written asking why anyone would write a separate list of great black posters. Sure, it's a legitimate question. And I gave a legitimate answer. Surely a question like that (seeing that three people were wondering the same thing) deserves a response. Nobody today should ever question why anyone wants to make a list of black players in any sport. Should I really have to explain that? I think my previous post answered the question pretty clearly.
Would anyone question why the need for a separate list for greatest female players? Greatest one-pocket players? Greatest players from the south? Greatest players who never won a championship? Greatest players caught picking their nose on camera? .....
Fred <~~~ wants to see a list of greatest white long jumpers and (non-Scandinavian) ping pong players
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I have one tape of the late Lotsa Poppa. His best attribute on that tape was that he could sing very well. His shot making wasn't professional caliber, but he out-moved Jimmy Mataya in the one-pocket match. Mataya didn't look like he had a clue how to play one-pocket and needed every bit of shotmaking skills just to keep things close.Voodoo Daddy said:
Fred <~~~ would have lost to Lotsa Poppa in any game, including the singing
jay helfert said:
I will have to search out that thread. I did read that in 1980, he won the so-called "World Pro-Am Tournament" in Las Vegas.
I am reminded of the adage: In the pool world, we've all known a few of them. They're the "Road Players." These are the traveling gunfighters, who know no other way of life than betting it all and hanging on the edge. Most of the greats of today started out this way, but for every one who made it, there are at least a hundred who did not survive.
Here's a reference to "Shake and Bake" reminiscing about days gone by, before he passed: Shake and Bake smiles when asked about the old days and talks warmly of players like Luther Lassiter, Irving Crane, and Jimmy Caras. "I've got a lot of good friends and good memories of a lifestyle that few people are fortunate enough to experience," he says. "I had the luck to know the old greats as well as the new crop of superstars the sport has cultivated."
JAM
Two different guys
As far as I know, Detroit Slim and Rotation Slim were two completely different players with expertise in different games. I did meet Rotation Slim in Johnston City. He was about 80 yrs old. Steve Lomako may have the story.
the Beard
jay helfert said:
As far as I know, Detroit Slim and Rotation Slim were two completely different players with expertise in different games. I did meet Rotation Slim in Johnston City. He was about 80 yrs old. Steve Lomako may have the story.
the Beard
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Great Post Walt..
I for one really enjoyed reading Walts post of Great Black players.. ..Enjoy the post for what it is..A chance for all of us to hear the names of some great "Black" players.. This is not a comparison of Black, White, Asian or any other group of players..Just enjoy the post and add more names as some of you have done...Don
I for one really enjoyed reading Walts post of Great Black players.. ..Enjoy the post for what it is..A chance for all of us to hear the names of some great "Black" players.. This is not a comparison of Black, White, Asian or any other group of players..Just enjoy the post and add more names as some of you have done...Don
Walt Frazier
Banned
Oh yeah !
Thanx Jam! I completely forgot about him! He could play alright! Ole Shake and Bake! Damn,it's been a long time since I've heard that name..Thanx again!
JAM said:
Thanx Jam! I completely forgot about him! He could play alright! Ole Shake and Bake! Damn,it's been a long time since I've heard that name..Thanx again!
Last night, and the night before, I was playing with and talking to John McHenry (John Henry), the pool room owner/player/backer from Chicago who took Leonard "Bugs" Rucker on the road in the 60s and later. John owned the room on the South side of Chicago where Bugs learned to play. Javanely "Youngblood" Washington held forth there for many years and even had a sign on the wall about being the best pool player in the world, and the best bank pool player EVER. Bugs always feared him and couldn't play well against him. John said that while Bugs was a fabulous shotmaker, especially off the rail in One-Pocket or Banks, that Youngblood had perfect cueball control and moves that could make you talk to yourself ! He took on all comers, and beat many a Champion there, and spotted them all I believe. Sadly, Youngblood was a bit insane !
Anyway, I never saw Blood play, but I saw Bugs, Edgar White, and many others at "The Rack" in Oak Park Michigan back in the 70s and early 80s. Freddy and Grady probably saw more but IMHO, Marvin Henderson when sober was the best player with the best stroke by far that I EVER saw, bar none, black or white or purple . Well, maybe when he was half-sober, 'cause I don't think he was ever completely sober! I still have never seen a better player...Tom
Anyway, I never saw Blood play, but I saw Bugs, Edgar White, and many others at "The Rack" in Oak Park Michigan back in the 70s and early 80s. Freddy and Grady probably saw more but IMHO, Marvin Henderson when sober was the best player with the best stroke by far that I EVER saw, bar none, black or white or purple
. Well, maybe when he was half-sober, 'cause I don't think he was ever completely sober! I still have never seen a better player...Tom
Cornerman said:
From Fred's earlier post:
Cornerman said:
This is the part of your post I considered silly. The only thing these people questioned was why a separate list for black players, definitely not an insult to ask the question. Walt gave a perfectly reasonable answer, also not an insult. For you to feel that the questions, Bval's in particular since you replied to it, were insulting struck me as silly and reflecting on you, not the people posting the question.
I find this to be a great thread. I am reading stories about super players I already knew about and some I never heard of. This probably would not have happened without focusing on the subgroup "Black Players" making this thread well worthwhile. I shot with a few very good black players many years ago, These guys were some of the first to break the segregation barrier since they were in "white" pool halls long before desegregation. Unfortunately their names are long forgotten like most of the guys I played with regardless of color.
Hu
