Best ever High Stakes player

BackPocket9Ball said:
I would have to mention Allen Hopkins.

How about Bucktooth, aka Rich Cook?
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Allen was by far the best gambler of the East Coast crowd, kind of the heir apparent to Ervolino.

Bucktooth will bet thru the moon, but he usually plays with the Hungarians, and is tough to overcome for anyone. When he loses, he goes off.
 
Pushout said:
Jay,
Where would you rate Eddie Taylor?
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Eddie Taylor was one of the all time greats, no question. He prefered to play good players even up. Handicapping a game was not his strong suit. He would gamble, but he made some bad games from time to time.

He might try to give someone like Jersey Red 9-7 in One Pocket. Not a good game I'm afraid. Even for Taylor. And no one wanted any part of him at Banks, except maybe Bugs and a few others that he gave weight to. He played Joey Spaeth (Gary's Dad and a great player) in Dayton and gave him 9-6 in Banks. A little too much even for Eddie T.
 
Jose for sure, and James Walden is a close second. Saw Walden playing some 15000 a game one pocket up in St Louis.
 
Right on, Jay!

jay helfert said:
Great answer oh Bearded one. Ronnie liked to say he "outran the nuts". And often he did. At first when I saw him make these outrageous games, I thought he was crazy. I came to learn, that this is how he made big scores, giving up the nuts.

One of Ronnie's secrets that can be told now. Everyone rates the break at a couple of balls. Not Ronnie. He said it was worth four balls to him. I saw him play good players even One Handed (they played with two of course) and he would take the break. I never saw him lose that way. And he liked to give up 10 to 6 (or more) to good players and take the break. Again, they thought they had the best of it. Au contraire.

And Red was so damn intimidating. He scared you out of two or three balls a game. Something about his presence was overwhelming. Playing him was like getting ready to go into surgery or being chased by a bear. SCARY!!

And Bugs was Mr. Cool. No matter what, he acted like he had you and you belonged to him. It was like at any moment that he chose, the game would be over. He was never flustered. It didn't matter if you just made the shot of your life. It was only prolonging the agony, which was inevitable. With Bugs, any shot could be your last, and you knew it and felt it.

What do you think Fred. Am I close here?
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The key to outrunning the nuts with those guys was, when they did come with a shot they got all the way out! Games with both players in the one-hole were rare because those guys never stopped on the game ball. If I had to pick the most frightening guy to play with for giant money out of those 3 it would have to be Cornbread. As the bet went up his already long slip stroke would lengthen ever further. I will never forget a set for 30k he won in Philly playing "Cornflakes" (John Hennigan, he now plays in the World series of Poker) with me, Buddy Hall, and Wade Crane each betting 1200 each on him. He had a long straight back for the money, and he was shooting at a triple-shimmed 4" pocket. He long-stroked it in 100mph. After the set he grumbled that he didnt have time to go home and get more money to bet than the measly 30k. Like Buck15 said, he was my hero too and I also miss him terribly.

In my next book I tell the story of the shot Bugs had to make against Eddie Taylor for his life! You cant bet no higher than that.

Mataya and Incardona. Jay, you were pretty much right on both counts, but in Detroit Mataya would play Nineball with anybody for any amount, and Cardone played high, but he always had an edge.

the Beard
 
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One Pocket Hall of Fame

It's great to see so many of the names from the One Pocket Hall of Fame come up in a thread like this! Taylor, Bugs, Ronnie Allen, Cornbread Red. My only regret is that we missed honoring a few guys, like Cornbread, before they died. We just caught Taylor, fortunately, and Bugs has been featured at our Hall of Fame dinner the last two years -- for One Pocket & Banks! Unfortunately, Bugs isn't in good shape, with the diabetes taking a toll.

Weenie Beenie wasn't necessarily the best player, but he sure was a high-stakes player, and a rare exception -- a successful gambler who earned his living as a businessman. They say money won is twice as sweet as money earned -- but how about being on the losing end? Wouldn't you say that it's twice as painful to lose earned money than to lose gambling winnings? He 'bet his own' as they say...
 
jay helfert said:
Allen was by far the best gambler of the East Coast crowd, kind of the heir apparent to Ervolino.

Bucktooth will bet thru the moon, but he usually plays with the Hungarians, and is tough to overcome for anyone. When he loses, he goes off.
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Everyone was in Vegas back around 80 or 81 for the World Series of Tavern pool.
I got a call that Surfer Rod had a gme at the old Serene Room, last pocket 8-ball with the big ball for $1000 per game and asked if I wanted any of it.
I asked who he was playing and got the stall, stating the this guy didn't gamble too well, didn't play on a bar table, and didn't like the big ball. My response was, what do you need me for, who is it?
Allen Hopkins I was told. No thank you,but I hear the Serene Room has pretty good burgers, so I'll come down there.
I got there about 10pm, had 2 of those burgers and was headed back to Ceasers by 3am. It seemed odd to me that though Mr Hopkins couldn't gamble too well, didn't play on a bar table, and couldn't play with the big ball, had adjusted pretty well and gotten over all his fears very easily. He shot Rod so full of holes, he looked like a sprinkler. 21 games ahead in about 5 hours.
The whole venture cost me $18 and I felt as if I had won.
 
freddy the beard said:
The key to outrunning the nuts with those guys was, when they did come with a shot they got all the way out! Games with both players in the one-hole were rare because those guys never stopped on the game ball. If I had to pick the most frightening guy to play with for giant money out of those 3 it would have to be Cornbread. As the bet went up his already long slip stroke would lengthen ever further. I will never forget a set for 30k he won in Philly playing "Cornflakes" (John Hennigan, he now plays in the World series of Poker) with me, Buddy Hall, and Wade Crane each betting 1200 each on him. He had a long straight back for the money, and he was shooting at a triple-shimmed 4" pocket. He long-stroked it in 100mph. After the set he grumbled that he didnt have time to go home and get more money to bet than the measly 30k. Like Buck15 said, he was my hero too and I also miss him terribly.

In my next book I tell the story of the shot Bugs had to make against Eddie Taylor for his life! You cant bet no higher than that.

Mataya and Incardona. Jay, you were pretty much right on both counts, but in Detroit Mataya would play Nineball with anybody for any amount, and Cardone played high, but he always had an edge.

the Beard
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Thanks Frederick. One thing I will add is that if you were in the One Hole against any of the above, YOU were in trouble. LOL
 
ironman said:
Everyone was in Vegas back around 80 or 81 for the World Series of Tavern pool.
I got a call that Surfer Rod had a gme at the old Serene Room, last pocket 8-ball with the big ball for $1000 per game and asked if I wanted any of it.
I asked who he was playing and got the stall, stating the this guy didn't gamble too well, didn't play on a bar table, and didn't like the big ball. My response was, what do you need me for, who is it?
Allen Hopkins I was told. No thank you,but I hear the Serene Room has pretty good burgers, so I'll come down there.
I got there about 10pm, had 2 of those burgers and was headed back to Ceasers by 3am. It seemed odd to me that though Mr Hopkins couldn't gamble too well, didn't play on a bar table, and couldn't play with the big ball, had adjusted pretty well and gotten over all his fears very easily. He shot Rod so full of holes, he looked like a sprinkler. 21 games ahead in about 5 hours.
The whole venture cost me $18 and I felt as if I had won.
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The great players who came out of the Northwest could play any game on any table. A good one I remember was when someone brought a 60 year old Boston Shorty out to Vegas to play in the Seniors division of the BCA, about 15 years ago.

I had never seen him play on a bar table in all these years. He was practicing and King Kong (a great Mexican player), who didn't have any idea who Shorty was, came up and asked him if he wanted a game. Shorty looked him up and down and said sure, how much. They played a few games and the bet quickly escalated until finally they agreed on six ahead for $600. Not chopped liver.

Two hours and $1,800 later, a broke and dejected Bernardo put his cue away and looked around at me and said "Who is this guy?" I couldn't help but laugh.
 
1pocket said:
It's great to see so many of the names from the One Pocket Hall of Fame come up in a thread like this! Taylor, Bugs, Ronnie Allen, Cornbread Red. My only regret is that we missed honoring a few guys, like Cornbread, before they died. We just caught Taylor, fortunately, and Bugs has been featured at our Hall of Fame dinner the last two years -- for One Pocket & Banks! Unfortunately, Bugs isn't in good shape, with the diabetes taking a toll.

Weenie Beenie wasn't necessarily the best player, but he sure was a high-stakes player, and a rare exception -- a successful gambler who earned his living as a businessman. They say money won is twice as sweet as money earned -- but how about being on the losing end? Wouldn't you say that it's twice as painful to lose earned money than to lose gambling winnings? He 'bet his own' as they say...
Click to expand...


Beenie was old school. No bet too high or player too good to match up with. When you tried matching wits with Beenie and handicapping a game, you had way the worst of it. He could negotiate the numbers and manipulate the weight so you didn't know if you were coming or going. And usually you were gone, and so was your money.

I always prefered to be in with him, whatever the game. We made several big scores together. The first was when we spread Black Jack at Ronnie's big tournament in Bend, Oregon. We each made $6,000 the first night. Not bad in 1976 dollars. He tipped me when I was getting cheated in cards in Phoenix at the McDermott Masters in 1988.

Then he beat me out of the money I saved at Gin Rummy. What I guy. I really loved him, may he rest in peace.
 
Jay and/or the Beard,

You guys absolutey must right a book about your pool playing and sweating experiances....it would be a great hit and read.

Regards,

Doug
 
jay helfert said:
The great players who came out of the Northwest could play any game on any table. A good one I remember was when someone brought a 60 year old Boston Shorty out to Vegas to play in the Seniors division of the BCA, about 15 years ago.

I had never seen him play on a bar table in all these years. He was practicing and King Kong (a great Mexican player), who didn't have any idea who Shorty was, came up and asked him if he wanted a game. Shorty looked him up and down and said sure, how much. They played a few games and the bet quickly escalated until finally they agreed on six ahead for $600. Not chopped liver.

Two hours and $1,800 later, a broke and dejected Bernardo put his cue away and looked around at me and said "Who is this guy?" I couldn't help but laugh.
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Several years ago I had been on the road for several months and was out of touch locally.
I walked in he pool room on Sunday afternoon and there was Shorty playing a certain room owner ( I won't mention Franks name) and I thought I was going to die laughing. I wss laughing so hard I had to leave as not to queer it.
I won't reveal the figures, but, it was sad.
 
bartrum

crow said:
Chris Bartram without a doubt.
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i will say chris bartrum has alot of gamble.he was in detroit last year before glass city i believe,and i watched hin play a 20 ahead set for i believe 30 k.at the end of the first night he was 17 ahead.only problem was the guy he was playing,hella of a player and will bet the moon and the rail.end of second day ronnie weisman was 6 games up i believe.they had to quit for the tournament.now weisman has got heart and gamble!i don't think they have played since.i do know that bartum ran thru tony cohan at derby city this year.
 
buck15 said:
i will say chris bartrum has alot of gamble.he was in detroit last year before glass city i believe,and i watched hin play a 20 ahead set for i believe 30 k.at the end of the first night he was 17 ahead.only problem was the guy he was playing,hella of a player and will bet the moon and the rail.end of second day ronnie weisman was 6 games up i believe.they had to quit for the tournament.now weisman has got heart and gamble!i don't think they have played since.i do know that bartum ran thru tony cohan at derby city this year.
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No one has more heart and gamble today than Ronnie.
 
jay helfert said:
The great players who came out of the Northwest could play any game on any table. A good one I remember was when someone brought a 60 year old Boston Shorty out to Vegas to play in the Seniors division of the BCA, about 15 years ago.

I had never seen him play on a bar table in all these years. He was practicing and King Kong (a great Mexican player), who didn't have any idea who Shorty was, came up and asked him if he wanted a game. Shorty looked him up and down and said sure, how much. They played a few games and the bet quickly escalated until finally they agreed on six ahead for $600. Not chopped liver.

Two hours and $1,800 later, a broke and dejected Bernardo put his cue away and looked around at me and said "Who is this guy?" I couldn't help but laugh.
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Now THAT'S a funny story!

Jay--your stories are golden, keep 'em comin!
 
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