Best Glue for Coring

[conetip]

The secret with epoxies is to measure corectly the ratio required, usually by weight or volume at 68 deg F.The other is to mix slowly as to keep air bubles to a minimum.With care you can mix with no air bubbles. Care needs to be taken when mxing in fillers like micro fiber, not to add air bubbles.Another resin worth considering is the G Flex range for high shock loading.Slower setting resins will often have a greater grain penertration producing a stronger bond.
Neil

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

I would appreciate some input as to the best glue used for coring. If you have had a problem with any particular glue please let me know.

Good Cuemaking,

For those of you who actually answered my question - Thanks.

 

[Michael Webb]

Interesting thread. Dumb question: Would your answers be the same if you cored with a phenolic rod rather than a wooden dowel?

Great question, Glues used, depends on what material I am working with. Arnot, very nice talking to you as always.

 

[desi2960]

ive used 2

i have tried epoxy and wood glue. i would rather use wood glue , but the wood glue seems to penetrate the wood faster making the pieces swell, and harder to press the core into the butt. i'm afraid at some time i'm going to split the butt.
so, most of the time i use slow drying 2 part epoxy. i use a brush and completely cover the dowel, insert it about an inch, then as i hold the piece upright, i fill the hole almost full of epoxy. slowly twist and push the dowel into the butt.
i waste a lot of epoxy, and i make a great big mess, but for me this is the way to go. chuck starkey

 

[BHQ]

i have tried epoxy and wood glue. i would rather use wood glue , but the wood glue seems to penetrate the wood faster making the pieces swell, and harder to press the core into the butt. i'm afraid at some time i'm going to split the butt.
so, most of the time i use slow drying 2 part epoxy. i use a brush and completely cover the dowel, insert it about an inch, then as i hold the piece upright, i fill the hole almost full of epoxy. slowly twist and push the dowel into the butt.
i waste a lot of epoxy, and i make a great big mess, but for me this is the way to go. chuck starkey

ditto that about the waste & mess
i always thought too much was better than not enough
one other thing i do after glueing a core is put it back in the lathe and keep it spinning for 30 minutes or so, just so the epoxy doesnt settle to one side

 

[rhncue]

I use West System Epoxies myself when coring a cue, which is almost all the cues that I build. I have tried yellow wood glue but I never trusted it as many woods are oily and I cut tracks into the core and hard woods to ensure no glue starvation when inserting the dowel. I've never tried Gorilla glue for a couple of reasons. #1 is that it is fairly thick so would be hard to use with tight clearances. #2 is that it expands like a foaming insulation. Now this foaming would certainly fill all of the voids and crevasses but, I feel, it will create a cushioning effect between the core and the outer hard wood. Although the glue itself is certainly strong for the above task I'm afraid it would act like the rubber in a Motor mount on a car. It is plenty strong enough to hold the motor but it absorbs the vibrations from the motor being transmitted to the chassis of the vehicle. I don't want the vibrations from the core to the rest of the cue to be eliminated. That is the feel or the hit of the cue and I want solid.

Now, since I've never tried using the Urethane type glues for this application I can't say for sure that this cushioning actually does affect the transfer of energy. I am only assuming it would. I could be dead wrong of coarse but since I'm happy with the results of the epoxy that I am presently using I see know reason to experiment in this area. There are to many other places in a cue that I feel could use improvement and I would rather try experiments on.
Just my 2 cents worth.

Dick

 

[QMAKER]

Glue

I've never tried Gorilla glue for a couple of reasons. #1 is that it is fairly thick so would be hard to use with tight clearances. #2 is that it expands like a foaming insulation. Now this foaming would certainly fill all of the voids and crevasses but, I feel, it will create a cushioning effect between the core and the outer hard wood. Although the glue itself is certainly strong for the above task I'm afraid it would act like the rubber in a Motor mount on a car. It is plenty strong enough to hold the motor but it absorbs the vibrations from the motor being transmitted to the chassis of the vehicle. I don't want the vibrations from the core to the rest of the cue to be eliminated. That is the feel or the hit of the cue and I want solid.

Dick

Dick, actually, if you turn down a piece of cored stock to the glue line that has been glued with Gorilla glue you will see that there is NO foaming at the glue joint. The glue is solid, just like epoxy. The foaming occurs when the glue squeezes out and there are no barriers to restrain it. I have tried it both ways and it has absolutely no effect on the hit or transfer of feel from the core to the hand. But, then again, I make sure all my cored components are in "compression" by way of a "stop ring" and a threaded butt cap regardless of what glue I use. Technically speaking, I see no difference
between Gorilla glue and epoxy for this application. However, the results of
my testing showed that the Gorilla glue adhered better to the coring wood than did the epoxy. Structurally, the results were the same.

 

[BHQ]

Dick, actually, if you turn down a piece of cored stock to the glue line that has been glued with Gorilla glue you will see that there is NO foaming at the glue joint. The glue is solid, just like epoxy. The foaming occurs when the glue squeezes out and there are no barriers to restrain it. I have tried it both ways and it has absolutely no effect on the hit or transfer of feel from the core to the hand. But, then again, I make sure all my cored components are in "compression" by way of a "stop ring" and a threaded butt cap regardless of what glue I use. Technically speaking, I see no difference
between Gorilla glue and epoxy for this application. However, the results of
my testing showed that the Gorilla glue adhered better to the coring wood than did the epoxy. Structurally, the results were the same.

which gorilla glue bob??? the white????

 

[QMAKER]

Glue

which gorilla glue bob??? the white????

I use regular Gorilla glue. I have tried the white stuff on a few ferrules but
have not decided to replace epoxy with it as of yet.

 

[BHQ]

I use regular Gorilla glue. I have tried the white stuff on a few ferrules but
have not decided to replace epoxy with it as of yet.

thanks
about the foaming that dickie mentioned
i thought that the foam was only where in contact with air/atmosphere??
is that correct??????

so, if all the air is displaced by the core, there shouldnt be any foam?
if there is foam, then would that stand to reason there wasnt enough glue to force the air out????
i dunno, just thinking out loud here

 

[Craig Fales]

Hmmm. I don't core- I probably never will.

But, if I did, I'd probably be leaning toward good old-fashioned wood glue. Unless you are gluing something REALLY oily, that traditionally doesn't take wood glue, I find it hard to beat wood glue on (most) woods.

That being said, if it was oily, I'd wash the cavity with Acetone right before gluing. Then I would use West system with the slowest hardener you can get (I don't remember which that is 206 maybe?).

Anyway, in either case, use a boring bar to cut some grooves in the cavity around the circumfrence, and also 'broach' with the boring bar to make some releif grooves for air. The consistency of the glue determines the size of the releif grooves. Make similar, but not perfectly matching, grooves on the dowel.

Coat the dowel end to end with glue and also slather the cavity (cheap acid brush). Twist while assembling.

If you get air pockets with this method, you need to work on thechnique a bit. A lead in chamfer in the cavity and a chamfer on the dowel will help reduce the 'piston' affect forcing all the glue out the other end.

If done right, it will be a serious mess to clean up...:thumbup:

Wood glues (PVA) require a lot of clamping pressure to work, they are designed to absorb into the wood from clamping and bond into one piece so to speak. This glue has no feasable use in cuemaking anywhere. Gorilla glue used with glue grooves is the best technique.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Gorilla glue used with glue grooves is the best technique.

I think sealing the inside of the cylinders then epoxying the coring dowel days after is pretty solid.
I dunno if this helps.
http://www.jcrocket.com/adhesives.shtml

 

[Cue Guru]

Let us not forget not that long ago there was very few alternatives to Hide glue.

The whole development of the full splice came about to increase gluing surface, because the bond is relatively weak with hide, and easily broken with heat (which is why it is used so often in guitar construction- you can take it apart to repair).

Use whatever you feel is best. Personally, I would avoid Gorilla, particularly in something prone to checking, such as ebony as it expands and will exert hydraulic pressure on the sleeve. It will likely never fail, but if it does, a nice piece of ebony will be wasted.

Or, you could cut your first point there, and no one would ever know...

Happy coring! I'm still not interested.

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Let us not forget not that long ago there was very few alternatives to Hide glue.

The whole development of the full splice came about to increase gluing surface, because the bond is relatively weak with hide, and easily broken with heat (which is why it is used so often in guitar construction- you can take it apart to repair).

Use whatever you feel is best. Personally, I would avoid Gorilla, particularly in something prone to checking, such as ebony as it expands and will exert hydraulic pressure on the sleeve. It will likely never fail, but if it does, a nice piece of ebony will be wasted.

Or, you could cut your first point there, and no one would ever know...

Happy coring! I'm still not interested.

If you would please take the time to read my question you would find that I asked: I would appreciate some input as to the best glue used for coring. If you have had a problem with any particular glue please let me know. In ony of your responses you stated in part: Hmmm. I don't core- I probably never will.

I even took the time to go to your web site and cannot find anything that indicates that you have ever built a cue or would in any way qualify you to answer a question that was clearly directed to real cuemakers.

Next time please take time to read the question and if you have any real experience please feel free to chime right in there.

 

[QMAKER]

Glue

Use whatever you feel is best. Personally, I would avoid Gorilla, particularly in something prone to checking, such as ebony as it expands and will exert hydraulic pressure on the sleeve. It will likely never fail, but if it does, a nice piece of ebony will be wasted.

With all due respect you've got to be kidding!

 

[ratcues]

I use a 24 hour epoxy in all of my cores. Its not West Systems but same concept. If anyone worries about voids or air bubbles needs to worry more about the coring tolerances as opposed to the glue.