BEST GLUE FOR FERRULE INSTALLATION

Duane Remick

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
EPOXY??/
ALSO-
WHAT IS THE PROPER NAME FOR THE TOOL- TO CUT THREADS FOR THE FERRULE ONTO THE SHAFT????
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I don't thread tenons or ferrules......... I don't cap them either..... I use 5 minute epoxy ............. haven't had one come loose yet............. I have repaired many that used CA or wood glue..............

Kim
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

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Duane Remick

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
With all the information available about glues today. Why would you use anything other than epoxy?
I have used DEVCON EPOXY IN HTE PAST...
SUCCESSFULLY....
Just wondering if anything better that would increase the bond and produce a better hit on a cue is all"
Building cues with sharp points and veneers, in the past-
used devcon to epoxy the veneers together,
and also epoxy- to glue the points into the firearm .
Was told, By a Big Time cuemaker ,
should of used wood glue for that part of cue construction
 

CLAUD

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have used DEVCON EPOXY IN HTE PAST...
SUCCESSFULLY....
Just wondering if anything better that would increase the bond and produce a better hit on a cue is all"
Building cues with sharp points and veneers, in the past-
used devcon to epoxy the veneers together,
and also epoxy- to glue the points into the firearm .
Was told, By a Big Time cuemaker ,
should of used wood glue for that part of cue construction
I use epoxy for that also. Having built some furniture using wood glue I see no reason that it wouldn't work well for points, but I'm curious about why it would be preferred over epoxy. Did he happen to mention why he preferred wood glue for points?
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have used DEVCON EPOXY IN HTE PAST...
SUCCESSFULLY....
Just wondering if anything better that would increase the bond and produce a better hit on a cue is all"
Building cues with sharp points and veneers, in the past-
used devcon to epoxy the veneers together,
and also epoxy- to glue the points into the firearm .
Was told, By a Big Time cuemaker ,
should of used wood glue for that part of cue construction
I COULD!
Open that can of worms. Fast, quick and in a hurry.
But I'm not going to. To each thier own. I'm a Cue maker, not a politician.
 

Tommy-D

World's best B player...
Silver Member
I firmly believe in the JB Weld ClearWeld 5 min,in my experience with it materials go bad before it does.

However,for capped/threaded ferrules I've been using it inside the ferrule and on the tenon,while doing everything I can to keep the ferrule seam dry to eliminate glue lines. I've also used a generous dose of Titebond here before and liked the results with it too.

For Meucci style,I leave them clamped tight overnight and squeeze out as much as I can. I've got my own little prep techniques for the tenon and inside the ferrule,and they work repeatably. Tommy D.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
no reason that it wouldn't work well for points, but I'm curious about why it would be preferred over epoxy. Did he happen to mention why he preferred wood glue for points?

To each thier own. I'm a Cue maker, not a politician.

It's not just political, it's experience, a lot of it.
To cut to the bottom line, IF your machining is top notch, and the wood surfaces well prepared (see National Forest Products Lab test data and recommendations for gluing wood surfaces) typical wood glues including "yellow" glues can yield a less perceptible glue line. On some dense hardwoods, the bond is better than epoxy, without special prep for the epoxy.

Another simplification: wood glues require a smooth, fresh (not overnight) knife finish, as with a hand plane, as the ideal. (sanded surface will degrade bond). Wood glue activates the wood surface and in a perfect bond, some of the bond is actually wood-wood "welding". Epoxy requires a slightly rough surface, must be a thicker glue line, & can stand some oxidation (couple days after machining). 80 - 120 grit sanded surface is ideal in terms of strength.

In the real world, WEST (& some others but not all) tend to be more fool-proof across a wide range of conditions. So long as it is left to soak in a bit, includes the cotton flocking for spacing, and is not all squeezed out on assembly.

Epoxy can leave a visible glue line due to wicking deeper into some woods, especially end grain & showing dark, making it look like the joint was poorly fit even when it was a good fit before glue-up.

I have 50 years professional experience gluing all kinds of wood for all kinds of applications.
Still asked on here where starting to make cues. :) For one thing, had glued a lot of ebony, but not a lot of rosewood in the past.

Actually, my first 4 pointer FS's (few years before joining AZ) were made with yellow glue and the joints almost don't appear.
But i've chickened out and mostly use WEST, now. One thing, if you are gluing up a half dozen or so blanks at a time, WEST gives a lot longer open assembly time, so long as the glue is all out of the pot and spread in about 15 mins. AFA splices, it does not seem to make a big visual difference. AFA butt joint appearance, say under ferules, added butt sleeves, etc Epoxy does make the joint less clean looking if there is a light colored wood involved.

Keep in mind, almost all cues made before the 50's were assembled with hot hide glue.
Many of them are still in fine shape structurally, though most of us would not like to go back to that substance/method :)
 
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JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's not just political, it's experience, a lot of it.
To cut to the bottom line, IF your machining is top notch, and the wood surfaces well prepared (see National Forest Products Lab test data and recommendations for gluing wood surfaces) typical wood glues including "yellow" glues can yield a less perceptible glue line. On some dense hardwoods, the bond is better than epoxy, without special prep for the epoxy.

Another simplification: wood glues require a smooth, fresh (not overnight) knife finish, as with a hand plane, as the ideal. (sanded surface will degrade bond). Wood glue activates the wood surface and in a perfect bond, some of the bond is actually wood-wood "welding". Epoxy requires a slightly rough surface, must be a thicker glue line, & can stand some oxidation (couple days after machining). 80 - 120 grit sanded surface is ideal in terms of strength.

In the real world, WEST (& some others but not all) tend to be more fool-proof across a wide range of conditions. So long as it is left to soak in a bit, includes the cotton flocking for spacing, and is not all squeezed out on assembly.

Epoxy can leave a visible glue line due to wicking deeper into some woods, especially end grain & showing dark, making it look like the joint was poorly fit even when it was a good fit before glue-up.

I have 50 years professional experience gluing all kinds of wood for all kinds of applications.
Still asked on here where starting to make cues. :) For one thing, had glued a lot of ebony, but not a lot of rosewood in the past.

Actually, my first 4 pointer FS's (few years before joining AZ) were made with yellow glue and the joints almost don't appear.
But i've chickened out and mostly use WEST, now. One thing, if you are gluing up a half dozen or so blanks at a time, WEST gives a lot longer open assembly time, so long as the glue is all out of the pot and spread in about 15 mins. AFA splices, it does not seem to make a big visual difference. AFA butt joint appearance, say under ferules, added butt sleeves, etc Epoxy does make the joint less clean looking if there is a light colored wood involved.

Keep in mind, almost all cues made before the 50's were assembled with hot hide glue.
Many of them are still in fine shape structurally, though most of us would not like to go back to that substance/method :)
Those old Titlists had wood glue . They are still alive today.
One great maker only used wood glue . Including on his aluminum A-joint stud . Amazingly, he's had no problems as his cues have been around for more than half a century.
I glued a maple turning disc at the bottom of a purpleheart handle a few weeks ago.
I could not remove it with a robogrip. Absolutely shocked the crap out of me . I did not even put a lot of it .
Polyurethane glue gets a bad rap too sometimes. Not everyone uses Gorilla poly glue . There are other brands that are better imo.
I did a mock-up one time using a poly glue on delrin ring jig . One delrin disc was stuck so hard I really had to smack it .

But, for A-joints, nothing beats West imo . Thin mix to penetrate and wick. Then, as you mentioned, thickened mix .
A few techniques and methods make it even better .
Everyone should do mock-ups and experimentation . Glue some assembly and throw them in the trunk of your car and see which ones don't develop a rattle .
 

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ferrules are like tips really and are a cue service item , made to protect the cue shaft and are an intermediary between the tip and cue shaft. With that in mind, thought needs to go into the replacement of the ferrule as it is a replaceable item just like the cue tip is. With great care the tips can be replaced without having to touch the ferrule at all.
As for glues, it is up to the repair person. I like a good epoxy glue myself. That way it can't buzz and cause any issues latter down the track.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Wood Glue and Super Glues have been used successfully to glue in points and for ferrules and tips also, but has had its share of failures..
So with thin Epoxy for point work and thicker five minute Epoxy for ferrules why would we take a chance on the inferior wood oe auper glue just because it has been used with mixed successes and failures.

I call the item that cuts threads on a tenon a Tenon Threader.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wood glue like "aliphatic resin glue" (titebond) can actually bond some wood better than epoxy.
However, as i noted above, it requires perfect technique & machining.
Epoxy will bond nearly perfectly, actually will bond even better, if the joinery is a little rough & sloppy.
For dense hardwoods, even including rock maple, epoxy can yield a starved joint that fails unless the surfaces are sawcut, or if planed, sanded before glue-up/assembly.

Did the milllwork for the altar area, curved wedding-cake tiers of steps & curved risers, ID & OD,, for the home church/7th Day Adventist 15? yrs ago. Could not get good joints with WEST on rock maple, and it was slow. (lots of experience -been using WEST by the 5 Gal container since early 80's) Titebond saved the day.

One "problem" with "wood glues" is the glue line can be invisible. Which can make the appearance of the joint, without veneers, kind of anomalous. These are poor photos from a few years ago. Excluding previous FS furniture legs, my first FS cuess. Bocote into very curly pyinma. All the visual aspects of the woods just disappeared. Even with wood with more contrast, very tight joints can be confusing when there is no glue-line.

I now tend to use WEST for points/splices for all reasons listed by many of us in previous posts.
It's just easier, does the job, is more forgiving, and is rock solid durable.

smt
 

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BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
Every time this subject comes to the top as I've said in the past 100 times and will continue to say in the future 100 times.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with yellow glue if your machining is right and you use the correct ferrule material.
No, it will not work on all materials. But I only use the one it works well with. 20 yrs plus and counting and to my knowledge not one has separated at the glue line. If there were a problem doing it this way I assume I should have heard from someone by now.
20200630_154942 (002).jpg
 

thoffen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Those old Titlists had wood glue . They are still alive today.
One great maker only used wood glue . Including on his aluminum A-joint stud . Amazingly, he's had no problems as his cues have been around for more than half a century.
I glued a maple turning disc at the bottom of a purpleheart handle a few weeks ago.
I could not remove it with a robogrip. Absolutely shocked the crap out of me . I did not even put a lot of it .
Polyurethane glue gets a bad rap too sometimes. Not everyone uses Gorilla poly glue . There are other brands that are better imo.
I did a mock-up one time using a poly glue on delrin ring jig . One delrin disc was stuck so hard I really had to smack it .

But, for A-joints, nothing beats West imo . Thin mix to penetrate and wick. Then, as you mentioned, thickened mix .
A few techniques and methods make it even better .
Everyone should do mock-ups and experimentation . Glue some assembly and throw them in the trunk of your car and see which ones don't develop a rattle .

Wood glue is the opposite of epoxy here. You want a very thin layer on the smoothest possible surface. You have to have enough, obviously, and some will get sucked up into the pores. Use enough to get glue squeeze out from all sides of contact, but any more than that works against you. Whereas epoxy will harden chemically, wood glue gets hard as it loses moisture. It dries rather than hardens, and the PVA bonds well to wood, not itself. So you probably made a better bond by using less which would be counter intuitive if used to epoxy.
 
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