Best Money Player Alive Today

[srs314]

fair enough but its not like alex wins all of his matches so even tho he does match up with everyone, he still loses enough times. he'd be the one thats most willing to match up but if u're talking about the best money player then it would have to be like jay said, someone who is doing what buddy hall did would be the best. cuz matching up doesnt mean as much if u dont win as much as he did.

Well Alex does win most and will play that person until he does. After everyone watching the matches at the Derby said Shane was too good for Alex he didn't quit, and in the end he got the money and Shane is in no hurry to play him again as I understand it.

I think he is one of the most feared players when it comes to gambling, maybe he doesn't dominate like Buddy did but were talking today.

I give Buddy all the respect in the world from what I've seen and the stories I've heard.

I don't see a line up of people looking to play Alex even, do you?

 

[mullyman]

The Rifleman Buddy Hall!!!

You and I are on the same page. Buddy would be my choice. Only thing is that he's getting older now and may not have it the way he used to. But back in the day there isn't any other player I'd want shooting for me if I was the backer.
MULLY

 

[HighEndCues]

Kind of reminds me of 7/11 in the 60's, with Johnny Ervolino, Jersey Red, Johnny Irish, Boston Shorty, Richie Ambrose and New York Blackie lined up and waiting. No one got out with the money. They might beat one guy, but the next one would get him, or the next, or the next. They would just wear you down with all that firepower.

Hey Jay,
A good friend of mine did pretty well down at the 7/11..
His name was Toby Sweet.. He was mighty tough for the cash for a long time also...
Best,
Ken

 

[gulfportdoc]

My recollections of the top money players goes like this. Buddy Hall was in a class of his own in this country for about 30 years as a money player and a tournament player. Buddy stayed on the road almost full time from the 70's to the late 90's. He knows the highways of the Eastern USA better than anyone alive, pool player or not. He must have won over 200 tournaments and I'm not talking about weekly events. I'm talking about bar box championships with strong 64 player fields, and big table events full of top players. NO ONE has won as many tournaments as Buddy, and it's not even close.

At the same time, Buddy was the most feared money player in America, bar none. Only a handful of players would even dare to play him even, guys like Greg Stevens, Denny Searcy and Billy Johnson. I think Buddy gave Searcy the eight one time in Vegas. And he could play all games, One Pocket, Banks and 9-Ball. He was not a Straight Pool player, mostly because no one gambled at 14.1. Buddy simply wiped up the competition everywhere he went for over 20 years.

I agree with your assessment, Jay. Buddy was the most feared player for a couple of decades. He picked up the torch set down by Lassiter in the late 1960's.

Doc

 

[jay helfert]

Hey Jay,
A good friend of mine did pretty well down at the 7/11..
His name was Toby Sweet.. He was mighty tough for the cash for a long time also...
Best,
Ken

Did you know Toby was the last guy to spot Buddy? He was giving him the eight up till about 1970. Toby may have been one of the best for the cash too. I rarely heard of him losing and usually he was robbing some good player who no one else could beat. He was the first American to go over and exploit the Europeans, giving some expensive lessons in Germany, in the 1980's.

Tell me the last time you heard some player who claimed to have beaten Toby. The only one I knew of who did was Mike Carella, and it took him days to win. Toby beat a who's who of great players in his heyday.

Toby is one of those guys who managed to fly under the radar most of his career. Out here we had "Tracy" Joe Salazar who beat almost everyone who crossed his path on a bar box for 10-15 years. He was one guy who Keith didn't like to match up with. Weldon Rogers was another low flyer who was a world beater. We rarely hear these names mentioned but they played just as good as anyone out there, and better than most.

Even lesser known were Bakersfield Bobby and Peter Gunn, both bar box killers. These guys made a GOOD living all their lives robbing bar table champions. Matlock may have been the best, but there were others who made more money.

 

[dirtypool40]

To clarify the question / topic:

We are looking for the best, heads up, money game player still alive, not just who's on top this minute. Not who matches up the best, or who now could beat Buddy now. (Most of the stories seem to center around 9-ball, as that is the game they've bet on the last 30-40 years.)

Who had the highest, consistent, top gear, and could bring it for the cash, over and over again. Lock them all in a room in their prime and make them play long sets, heads up till one guy has the cash.

I am surprised no one has talked much about Jimmy Reid, or Billy Incardona, but in the end, my vote is still for...

....Buddy Hall.

 

[jay helfert]

To clarify the question / topic:

We are looking for the best, heads up, money game player still alive, not just who's on top this minute. Not who matches up the best, or who now could beat Buddy now. (Most of the stories seem to center around 9-ball, as that is the game they've bet on the last 30-40 years.)

Who had the highest, consistent, top gear, and could bring it for the cash, over and over again. Lock them all in a room in their prime and make them play long sets, heads up till one guy has the cash.

I am surprised no one has talked much about Jimmy Reid, or Billy Incardona, but in the end, my vote is still for...

....Buddy Hall.

My opinion is that Parica was the best money player of all time, with Buddy a close second. Parica went after everybody, and gave up weight to the best players in the world. Like I said earlier, EVERYONE ducked him for many, many years. More so than anyone else I remember.

 

[dirtypool40]

I am a little fish and love reading your posts, Jay. Put me down for an autographed copy of your book whenever it comes out. :thumbup:


I am new to the game again, after playing only a few years as a kid of 18-23, in 1988-1993. Back then Parica was the name spoken in reverant whispers.

In the same article I read about JA and FB and the 13/14 racks on a diamond, they said Parica was going into practice rooms at majors and letting them know that everyone, except Archer had the 8... or more.

 

[Fatboy]

Shane has all the tools to be the next Buddy Hall, but he must continue to improve in several areas of his game. He does not play as precisely and error free as Yang, or the tight position of Dennis. Shane has the biggest break and can string racks, and he can come with the big shot when required. Maybe what's missing is Buddy's consistency. Of all the greatest players of the last 40 years, Buddy was the most consistently good, with Nick second. Sigel was the same, good every day in every match. These guys never had off days or off matches for that matter. You simply had to play very, very good to beat them, and hope they missed a shot or two.


So you can see, that over a long period of time, there have been a relatively small handful of men considered the best, maybe less than ten. Like I said in another post, Wu may be the best pool player on the planet today, but I think he is really focused on winning tournaments, which is tough enough in Asia.

Good post Jay, I didnt quote the whole post,


some thoughts reguarding your post:


Buddy is #1 back in the day. Alex is now. Parika didnt dominate like Buddy neither does Alex. So all time Buddy is it!


Shane has to focus better, and shake off the Alex thing soon or he might not shake it off, he is a great gambler but Alex did win-end of story. Can Shane beat Alex?, perhaps but he better do it soon, that kind of thing has to be avenged or the lasting scares might be too much to overcome, Boxers lose their careers over one bad beating sometimes, I hope that dosent happen to Shane(doubt it will), I like him and want the best for him. He has to step up and play Alex on his own $$$ soon.

I watched CJ beat Mark Tad, like Shane would beat me(yes it was that bad) 2 10 ahead sets and Mark won 3 games, so 23-2 in about 2 hours. But for what ever reason CJ didnt play like that for long, nobody in the world could have beat him that nite, Mark played fine he just never had a shot, It could have been anyone and CJ wins 23-3 or what ever it was maybe Mark won 4 at the most!!


JA has had to give up the world since day one, everyone was smart enough to avoid him. I have alot of inforamtion reguarding that, more so than any other top player, like my opinion on SVB is just what I think, with JA I know for a fact what I say. Larry Nevel Stepped up last year in that 10 ahead set, JA was on 9 before Larry got a shot. Think that didnt knock JA's action EVERYWHERE else???? Alex dosent want to play JA he might say he does but he dosent, I wish he would my $$ is up, the rest $$$ is up in Ga anytime, thats widley known. Alex can bring what he can raise, i will cover. JA plays so good he knocks his own action, I dont like JA in Wu's back yard but anywhere in America I like JA. But because JA has been a tournment guy, I still give Alex the top $$$ player award, but JA would win.

Last thing Wu I think is going to be the strongest player in 2 more years, with SVB right there for alot of years to come.

 

[bud green]

At Reno in 1991 or 1992 Parica walked into the practice/action room and said: "Anyone here gets the eight...EXCEPT Johnny Archer"

I fully understand why Asian players don't feel that its worth the time and money to come to the US and play, but to me its like golfers in the 50's when there wasn't much money in the game yet. They had to take a much harder trip to Europe to play in the British Open because they knew it would make their careers mean so much more if they won.

 

[The Beginner]

the final leg of it does. the earlier events dont but that doesnt matter since its not like the us open happens every few months. so if u're talking about a 1 time payout then the final leg pays around 40k to the winner. he faced everyone there for a little bit less...what was it? 4k? but considering u do not have to play as many matches it's a fair trade off.



just cuz they dont go to the us doesnt mean they havent proven it. as the general concensus has shown, the filipinos are the best and toughest group to beat. the taiwanese guys match up with them enough times so they have already proven that they'll go and match up with the best players if its within reasonable distance. whether they do it on us soil or not is irrelevant.



thats different, cuz regardless of where they are, they still play the best players in the world. maybe not in the us but in other tournaments. also the same can be said about american players then. cuz i dont see any of them going to taiwan to face yang etc. so how can someone like svb be considered one of the best as well?



i dont know what this has to do with anything as they're tournaments but if u pick a year where they didnt win anything to back ur point up then its a bit flawed. cuz i dont see u bringing up the years where chao won wpc's, icoc's etc. or when wu won both 8 ball and 9 ball in the same year. cuz unless i'm mistaken, i have yet to see an american player do that. and the world pool masters doubles is completely irrelevant to this. unless u're gambling in teams of 2 i dont see what that tournament's results has to do with anything. heck team china won last year. i'm chinese and even i found that surprising. and bringing up the us open doesnt prove anything either since u said it yourself, they dont even play in the us open so u cant use that as a title to show that they arent as good. thats like me saying svb isnt as good as these guys cuz he hasnt won anything on the guinness tour...makes no sense. as for 10 ball, wu was second so its not like they got butchered at the 10 ball championships. and in a short race any top level player can beat any other top level player so if wu came second then thats close enough. on any given day he could beat appleton in a race like that just like appleton can beat him.



fair enough but its not like alex wins all of his matches so even tho he does match up with everyone, he still loses enough times. he'd be the one thats most willing to match up but if u're talking about the best money player then it would have to be like jay said, someone who is doing what buddy hall did would be the best. cuz matching up doesnt mean as much if u dont win as much as he did.



and thats why we're not talking about the second tier. to say the first tier isnt as good as the players from other countries because their second tier isnt overwhelmingly stronger than those in other countries makes no sense. cuz if that reasoning is applied, then if they're no better than some of the second tier us players then that would put their first tier players in the same league as the best us players. but then u go on to say that they're not...



thats not a fact lol it's an assumption, u're just assuming they'll lose. since u bring up tournament results, go look at kuo's results. it doesnt matter where the wpc is hosted, look at what he does year after year and tell me hes not one of the strongest, if not the strongest, player in the field.



what does this have to do with anything. u can know a lot and not be the best.



which 5 are u counting? i see 3. and im pretty sure wu will beat 5.



u say the taiwanese cant be the best cuz they dont come over here but i dont see any americans going over there either so how can u consider them the best?


either way as a group the filipinos are the best no doubt. but if u're talking about 1 specific player then there are a few taiwanese players that are as good as anyone when it comes to playing for money.

wow you must bored when you did your reply...:lmao:

 

[Cannonball55]

My opinion is that Parica was the best money player of all time, with Buddy a close second. Parica went after everybody, and gave up weight to the best players in the world. Like I said earlier, EVERYONE ducked him for many, many years. More so than anyone else I remember.

Parica was my pick also, Jay we can't be the only two guys on the forum that knew how good Jose played huh?

 

[dirtypool40]

I was always surprised Jose was never given the credit Efren was, or Earl, or Siegel.

In interviews you can tell he's a little sensitive about it.

But then, if he was able to maintain that level, and that quiet corwn for that long, the perfect crime is keeping your name off the lips of the masses and out of the headlines. :thumbup:

 

[chickentony]

Does Parica still play a lot of money matches in the US?

 

[Danktrees]

wow you must bored when you did your reply...:lmao:

far from it, i like this discussion so i made a reply. if he took the time to write his message which was pretty long then i should take the time to reply back.

 

[Danktrees]

Well Alex does win most and will play that person until he does. After everyone watching the matches at the Derby said Shane was too good for Alex he didn't quit, and in the end he got the money and Shane is in no hurry to play him again as I understand it.

I think he is one of the most feared players when it comes to gambling, maybe he doesn't dominate like Buddy did but were talking today.

I give Buddy all the respect in the world from what I've seen and the stories I've heard.

I don't see a line up of people looking to play Alex even, do you?

hes definitely the most feared cuz he'll keep playing u until he wins but that doesnt mean hes the best. i think hes one of the best but thats cuz he stays in action all the time.

shane is not in a hurry to play him because of the way he lost. he screwed it all up when he had alex in a bad spot several times and he knows it which is why he was so dejected after the match. and it was an amazing comeback by alex but shane knows he blew a bunch of chances to close out the match and didnt which is why he didnt want to play. i'm sure he'll go at him again in a little while.

how many of his matches do u think he wins? i wouldnt know but i'd guess its around 70% which is good but hardly dominating but then again i dont know for sure.

and no i dont see ppl lining up to play alex but then again i dont see ppl lining up to play yang or wu either so that doesnt mean anything. also, even tho there isnt a line of ppl waiting to play him, he always seems to find a game, a lot of times it's even. if he were completely crushing the opposition then it would be impossible for him to get an even game. no doubt he's one of the best, definitely top 3 but i dont know if hes absolutely the best by as much of a margin as it seems.

 

[Danktrees]

At Reno in 1991 or 1992 Parica walked into the practice/action room and said: "Anyone here gets the eight...EXCEPT Johnny Archer"

I fully understand why Asian players don't feel that its worth the time and money to come to the US and play, but to me its like golfers in the 50's when there wasn't much money in the game yet. They had to take a much harder trip to Europe to play in the British Open because they knew it would make their careers mean so much more if they won.

but the difference is the golfers went there to enhance their careers since there wasnt much money here. but the taiwanese guys are making enough money where they are that they have no reason to come over. perhaps if they were playing in cheap tournaments all of the time then they would come here. but if theres enough money over there then they dont need to come over here since they'd probably end up making less money after the travel, lodging, food expenses etc. plus they dont speak english which is another major problem cuz they'd have to bring a translator which wouldnt be cheap either cuz that's more travel expenses that must be paid for.

 

[dabarbr]

Parica was my pick also, Jay we can't be the only two guys on the forum that knew how good Jose played huh?

Make it three.

 

[p1noy]

Alex Pagulayan goes everywhere and plays everyone. Someone please tell me if Alex has ever declined to play an even match with any other breathing human for any other reason than friendship?

Alex declined to play even with me in Toronto once...he insisted to give me 6-7-8-9 plus the break!:thumbup:

 

[HighEndCues]

Did you know Toby was the last guy to spot Buddy? He was giving him the eight up till about 1970. Toby may have been one of the best for the cash too. I rarely heard of him losing and usually he was robbing some good player who no one else could beat. He was the first American to go over and exploit the Europeans, giving some expensive lessons in Germany, in the 1980's.

Tell me the last time you heard some player who claimed to have beaten Toby. The only one I knew of who did was Mike Carella, and it took him days to win. Toby beat a who's who of great players in his heyday.

Toby is one of those guys who managed to fly under the radar most of his career. Out here we had "Tracy" Joe Salazar who beat almost everyone who crossed his path on a bar box for 10-15 years. He was one guy who Keith didn't like to match up with. Weldon Rogers was another low flyer who was a world beater. We rarely hear these names mentioned but they played just as good as anyone out there, and better than most.

Even lesser known were Bakersfield Bobby and Peter Gunn, both bar box killers. These guys made a GOOD living all their lives robbing bar table champions. Matlock may have been the best, but there were others who made more money.

Hey Jay,
I'll tell Ya...
I'm super impressed the amount you know..
Toby was a guy who flew under the radar..
He gave alot of world class players games that were insane..
His trip to Europe was legendary..
Toby was a pure high stakes gambler... In the 70's not many people wanted anything to do with him..
He really didn't play many torneys..
But, I do know he decided to play the US Open in 1984.. Not bad 3rd place behind Strickland and Sigel....
I see him often.. Always fun to pick his memories..
Best,
Ken