Best Money Player Alive Today

Danktrees said:
hes definitely the most feared cuz he'll keep playing u until he wins but that doesnt mean hes the best. i think hes one of the best but thats cuz he stays in action all the time.

shane is not in a hurry to play him because of the way he lost. he screwed it all up when he had alex in a bad spot several times and he knows it which is why he was so dejected after the match. and it was an amazing comeback by alex but shane knows he blew a bunch of chances to close out the match and didnt which is why he didnt want to play. i'm sure he'll go at him again in a little while.

how many of his matches do u think he wins? i wouldnt know but i'd guess its around 70% which is good but hardly dominating but then again i dont know for sure.

and no i dont see ppl lining up to play alex but then again i dont see ppl lining up to play yang or wu either so that doesnt mean anything. also, even tho there isnt a line of ppl waiting to play him, he always seems to find a game, a lot of times it's even. if he were completely crushing the opposition then it would be impossible for him to get an even game. no doubt he's one of the best, definitely top 3 but i dont know if hes absolutely the best by as much of a margin as it seems.
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I would say winning %70 of your pool matches is very strong. I don't think anyone dominates but there is a group at the top and Alex is amung the elite.

I wish we knew more about what goes on action wise in Asia but I'm sure you're correct there probably isn't many people lining up to play Wu or Yang either. I'm also sure there are other players we are not so familiar with that have a tough time getting action.

I've been to the Derby twice when Alex was there and if it wasn't for Shane last year he hadn't found a game even up since 2003. So I just don't see this plenty of people that want to play him even. I've seen him invite anone in that room at the Derby many times. Can you tell me another US player that will play him even besides Shane.

Also about Shane it is easy to see he loves to compete and I'm sure his matches with Alex will only make him work harder and keep getting better.
 
jayburger said:
keith i think youre exactly right. no offense intended donny but in the gambling world you are known as a good player"rack mechanic" who plays rack your own in your hometown only etc..etc...etc... ive seen you play several times and you do play good but james plays all games and will always be more highly regarded even if you did beat him a set. if you would play an all around (1 pocket, 10 ball, 8 ball or banks) i will stake james for 5000 or 10000 with a neutral racker and ref and give you odds on the money. now post up and lets see who has the most heart as was the title of this thread.
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Talk to me, oh master of the matchup. When James came through this area, he played'em all. ALL. Coltrain called me once from Oklahoma asking me if I'd be interested in going up with him against James getting the eight. Then he called back and asked about the seven, several grand stuck. Get the drift?
 
I'm surprised Ronnie Allen hasn't been mentioned a little more in this thread.

Most of the names dropped here wouldn't dare play straight up against Yang, Orcullo, Alex, Shane, or Wu on a 9 footer, including all the so called bar box champions, those guys are the cream right now imo

99% of all pros still avoid Efren like the plague

Wu may end up being the greatest of them all, both tourneys and for the cash

another awesome player with big heart is Darren Appleton, also great for the cash and tourneys, he's peaking at the right time, young enough that he still has physical skills yet old enough to have experienced the life and the lows of trying to earn as a pro billiards player for all these years, very dangerous....
 
Fatboy said:
Good post Jay, I didnt quote the whole post,


some thoughts reguarding your post:


Buddy is #1 back in the day. Alex is now. Parika didnt dominate like Buddy neither does Alex. So all time Buddy is it!


Shane has to focus better, and shake off the Alex thing soon or he might not shake it off, he is a great gambler but Alex did win-end of story. Can Shane beat Alex?, perhaps but he better do it soon, that kind of thing has to be avenged or the lasting scares might be too much to overcome, Boxers lose their careers over one bad beating sometimes, I hope that dosent happen to Shane(doubt it will), I like him and want the best for him. He has to step up and play Alex on his own $$$ soon.

I watched CJ beat Mark Tad, like Shane would beat me(yes it was that bad) 2 10 ahead sets and Mark won 3 games, so 23-2 in about 2 hours. But for what ever reason CJ didnt play like that for long, nobody in the world could have beat him that nite, Mark played fine he just never had a shot, It could have been anyone and CJ wins 23-3 or what ever it was maybe Mark won 4 at the most!!


JA has had to give up the world since day one, everyone was smart enough to avoid him. I have alot of inforamtion reguarding that, more so than any other top player, like my opinion on SVB is just what I think, with JA I know for a fact what I say. Larry Nevel Stepped up last year in that 10 ahead set, JA was on 9 before Larry got a shot. Think that didnt knock JA's action EVERYWHERE else???? Alex dosent want to play JA he might say he does but he dosent, I wish he would my $$ is up, the rest $$$ is up in Ga anytime, thats widley known. Alex can bring what he can raise, i will cover. JA plays so good he knocks his own action, I dont like JA in Wu's back yard but anywhere in America I like JA. But because JA has been a tournment guy, I still give Alex the top $$$ player award, but JA would win.

Last thing Wu I think is going to be the strongest player in 2 more years, with SVB right there for alot of years to come.
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Good post Eric. Johnny is probably the number one US player for the last 15 years at least, both in tourneys and for money. The tail end of Buddy's reign and the beginning of Johnny's overlap a little in the 90's. I don't think Johnny wanted to match up with Buddy back then. Too much mutual respect. All these other guys looking for games just leave Johnny alone. That is the utmost sign of respect in the pool world.

Parica would have definitely played Johnny in the 90's also, but they never got together as far as I know. That's where Johnny drew the line. You're one of Johnny's best friends, so you can ask him if they gambled. I sure don't remember if they did.

My recollection was that in the 90's, Buddy, Johnny and Parica were the kings of pool, for the cash. But somehow Parica was considered the best, mainly because of all the guys he played (or asked to play) and beat back then. I never heard of him turning down a game with anyone. And I think he would have played Buddy and Johnny too if the opportunity arose.
 
jay helfert said:
Good post Eric. Johnny is probably the number one US player for the last 15 years at least, both in tourneys and for money. The tail end of Buddy's reign and the beginning of Johnny's overlap a little in the 90's. I don't think Johnny wanted to match up with Buddy back then. Too much mutual respect. All these other guys looking for games just leave Johnny alone. That is the utmost sign of respect in the pool world.

Parica would have definitely played Johnny in the 90's also, but they never got together as far as I know. That's where Johnny drew the line. You're one of Johnny's best friends, so you can ask him if they gambled. I sure don't remember if they did.

My recollection was that in the 90's, Buddy, Johnny and Parica were the kings of pool, for the cash. But somehow Parica was considered the best, mainly because of all the guys he played (or asked to play) and beat back then. I never heard of him turning down a game with anyone. And I think he would have played Buddy and Johnny too if the opportunity arose.
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the only person i ever remember beating johnny for the cash was c.j. wiley. all others that did play him came up short.
 
smashmouth said:
I'm surprised Ronnie Allen hasn't been mentioned a little more in this thread.

Most of the names dropped here wouldn't dare play straight up against Yang, Orcullo, Alex, Shane, or Wu on a 9 footer, including all the so called bar box champions, those guys are the cream right now imo

99% of all pros still avoid Efren like the plague

Wu may end up being the greatest of them all, both tourneys and for the cash

another awesome player with big heart is Darren Appleton, also great for the cash and tourneys, he's peaking at the right time, young enough that he still has physical skills yet old enough to have experienced the life and the lows of trying to earn as a pro billiards player for all these years, very dangerous....
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Ronnie won ZILLIONS playing pool, he was the master at getting games and betting high. Most of his big scores were playing One Pocket and giving up unGodly spots. He was a legendary player no doubt. But Ronnie had (and still has) an addiction to the ponies. He threw away ZILLIONS at the track over the years.

Ronnie played top speed 9-Ball and bar pool also, don't think for a minute that he was one trick pony. When Richie was the king of the West Coast, he always had trouble beating Ronnie. He grew up admiring Ronnie and never got over the awe he had for him. Ronnie probably played the seven or eight ball below Richie, but that was how much he could intimidate someone.

In his prime he would have given Efren fits. I know no one likes to hear this, but I KNOW it! I want to say something I've never said before on here. Ronnie Allen had a special gift for One Pocket that no one else had, EVER. He played a different game than anyone else before or since. Billy would like me to believe that Ed Kelly was his equal, but I know Ronnie always gave Kelly 9-8. Kelly might have been the superior pool player (he was the best on the planet back then), but he didn't have Ronnie's skills at One Hole.

If you would have seen Ronnie play in the 60's, 70's and early 80's you would understand the above statements. When it came to making off angle combinations, playing clusters out of the pack, kicking two and three rails to get out of traps and kicking balls in the hole, he had no equal. This is a smart crowd on here, and you can tell which player has superior skills. If you ever saw Ronnie kick into the pack and move multiple balls toward his pocket, then you would become a believer. And if one ball dropped that game was over. Ronnie could run eight (or ten) and out better than any living human, making a few weird shots along the way. Ronnie played a different game than anyone else, that's all. And he could raise his game to whatever level he needed to win. I saw him make the most difficult shots you can imagine to win the money. With all my money on the line, I would rather have Ronnie Allen shoot the ball then anyone this side of Cornbread Red.

The bigger the bet, the better Ronnie played. Yes, he lost some matches for high stakes, but let's just say they were questionable losses, and leave it at that. Okay.

You know everyone raves about Tony Chohan and how he makes all these circus shots and runs out so fast. Believe me, Tony doesn't know half as much about One Pocket as Ronnie. And never will either.
 
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Ironman317 said:
the only person i ever remember beating johnny for the cash was c.j. wiley. all others that did play him came up short.
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CJ had his moment in the sun, that's for sure.
 
jay helfert said:
Good post Eric. Johnny is probably the number one US player for the last 15 years at least, both in tourneys and for money. The tail end of Buddy's reign and the beginning of Johnny's overlap a little in the 90's. I don't think Johnny wanted to match up with Buddy back then. Too much mutual respect. All these other guys looking for games just leave Johnny alone. That is the utmost sign of respect in the pool world.

Parica would have definitely played Johnny in the 90's also, but they never got together as far as I know. That's where Johnny drew the line. You're one of Johnny's best friends, so you can ask him if they gambled. I sure don't remember if they did.

My recollection was that in the 90's, Buddy, Johnny and Parica were the kings of pool, for the cash. But somehow Parica was considered the best, mainly because of all the guys he played (or asked to play) and beat back then. I never heard of him turning down a game with anyone. And I think he would have played Buddy and Johnny too if the opportunity arose.
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Johnny once said in Billiards Digest that Efren gets all the attention, but NOBODY wants to play Jose for money. He said that among the top players that nobody was more feared than Jose when it came to gambling. I think most of Buddy's gambling was done before 1985 so I doubt Johnny was around alot during Buddy's gambling heyday.


Just to give an idea of how strong Jose was, Jose once told me that he gave Jon Kucharo the 7, 8, & the break on a real tight table playing 15 ahead and after losing the first 10 games Jose came back and won the set fairly quick. Jose said this was why Kucharo quit the pool scene for so long.
 
I'd like to hear more about Toby, expecially this legendary trip to Europe.

Kid D seems to almost have dropped off the planet, but I don't know who else might have made $400K+ gambling in the last 10 years or whatever his book and the Sports Illustrated article said.

If Rosie lost $50 million, who was the guy who won the most from him? Keith would have to win almost 150 matches at 360 grand each to total that figure. Anyone take him down for over a million in one night?

It would be interesting to know how much Fats, Lassiter, "Country", Cooney and the rest of the hustling legends would of made in todays money.
 
Anyone like Busti?

What about Busti? I heard he played Johnny Archer once and Johnny ran something like 13 racks, and Francisco came back the next set and did the same thing. I really don't know for sure, but as far as top picks, I like Busti as well. There's just something about his demeanor that makes the other guy look like a limp fish sitting in his chair.

Again, I'm in my mid thirties and I have no way of knowing what some of the other guys in this thread know... like Jay, but I still think Busti is quite a bad ass. I don't hear of anyone challenging him much at all, or ever for that matter.
 
Buddy #1 for sure.

James Walden is a beast.

Reed Pierce in his home town has quite a winning %.

Billy Incardona was the best 9 ball player on the planet for a few years and also has a great winning %.

I like Corey Duel for money and under pressure. He might not always win but I don't think the money or his opponents ability is going to effect the way he plays.

When I think of the Best Money Player Alive, my definition would be who plays their top speed or above their speed for the big cash against a top opponent. Someone beating a sucker out of a ton of money might not be a great money player - but rather someone that matches up good or the right person at the right time.
 
Fatboy said:
Good post Jay, I didnt quote the whole post,


some thoughts reguarding your post:


Buddy is #1 back in the day. Alex is now. Parika didnt dominate like Buddy neither does Alex. So all time Buddy is it!


Shane has to focus better, and shake off the Alex thing soon or he might not shake it off, he is a great gambler but Alex did win-end of story. Can Shane beat Alex?, perhaps but he better do it soon, that kind of thing has to be avenged or the lasting scares might be too much to overcome, Boxers lose their careers over one bad beating sometimes, I hope that dosent happen to Shane(doubt it will), I like him and want the best for him. He has to step up and play Alex on his own $$$ soon.

I watched CJ beat Mark Tad, like Shane would beat me(yes it was that bad) 2 10 ahead sets and Mark won 3 games, so 23-2 in about 2 hours. But for what ever reason CJ didnt play like that for long, nobody in the world could have beat him that nite, Mark played fine he just never had a shot, It could have been anyone and CJ wins 23-3 or what ever it was maybe Mark won 4 at the most!!


JA has had to give up the world since day one, everyone was smart enough to avoid him. I have alot of inforamtion reguarding that, more so than any other top player, like my opinion on SVB is just what I think, with JA I know for a fact what I say. Larry Nevel Stepped up last year in that 10 ahead set, JA was on 9 before Larry got a shot. Think that didnt knock JA's action EVERYWHERE else???? Alex dosent want to play JA he might say he does but he dosent, I wish he would my $$ is up, the rest $$$ is up in Ga anytime, thats widley known. Alex can bring what he can raise, i will cover. JA plays so good he knocks his own action, I dont like JA in Wu's back yard but anywhere in America I like JA. But because JA has been a tournment guy, I still give Alex the top $$$ player award, but JA would win.

Last thing Wu I think is going to be the strongest player in 2 more years, with SVB right there for alot of years to come.
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Thats only because he has had no other choice but to play tournaments as Im sure you know this, because if cant get action.... tournaments and sponsors is the only other way to make it playing pool. And you must play like a monster to win as many as he has, and keep a sponsor for 20+ years and still have them as a sponsor.
 
Toby Sweet - yep he came and robbed the Europeans, then Tom Brown did it after that, then Bustamante showed up and started handing out ridiculous spots and still managed to outrun the nuts, then Jimmy Reid came and found it to be much tougher to win.

Toby was pretty low key but he could really bring it.

Danktress: I dont know where you get your information but most of the good Taiwanese players are not making enough money. They struggle just like everyone else. Players like Chao and Wu have earned plenty, compared to their cost of living, and also earned sponsorships.

In the 80s and 90s the Americans did play whoever stepped up in Taiwan whenever they were there. One of my friends here always carried the equivalent of $20,000 USD with him to bet on Steve Mizerak when Steve came to Taiwan.

Shane was in Manila playing lots of money matches - I am sure that if Wu or Chang had tried to make a game then they would have gotten one.

Taiwanese and Filipinos don't like to play ahead sets. The like long races. Rodney Morris once told me that he would play anyone 15 ahead. Americans don't like dashing for the cash. They prefer to get in the grease and play until someone quits.

You know why Alex chased Shane all over the country? Because when Alex lost at the DCC he did it like 25:23 25:22 25:24 or something close like that even after being ahead. He knew that Shane wasn't dominating him.

And no, if the Taiwanese don't come here and challenge everyone, like Orcullo did at the Derby a few years ago, then they aren't the best money players alive.

As for Wu winning the WPC and the World 8 ball in one year I say so what? I love Wu's game and am a HUGE fan - but the WPC was at home in Taiwan when he won it (home court advantage) and the 8-ball was a fairly short plane ride away. Great players have a history of winning big events back to back because they are usually feeling pretty high and are in dead punch knowing that they can beat the world.

Still the thread is about best money player. Until you're out there on the road mixing it up with everyone and coming out on top you can't claim or be assigned that title. People have mentioned Parica, there is a player that did just that. Grady Matthews is a player that hunted down action.

If we can arrange it then I propse we pick ten players from America and you get Wu or Yang and let them play those ten players in an all around format.

If Wu or Yang beats more than five of them then I will grant them the title best money player. If they don't then they can try again next year.

My ten players,

Rodney Morris
Shane Van Boening
Johnny Archer
Dennis Hatch
Stevie Moore
Gabe Owen
John Schmidt/Danny Harriman playing scotch doubles. :-)
Buddy Hall - after a month on the Stairmaster
Jose Parica - he is an American now right? :-)

And I am sure I can round out the list when the time comes. :-)

got to go
 
My ten players,

Rodney Morris
Shane Van Boening
Johnny Archer
Dennis Hatch
Stevie Moore
Gabe Owen
John Schmidt/Danny Harriman playing scotch doubles. :-)
Buddy Hall - after a month on the Stairmaster
Jose Parica - he is an American now right? :-)
Tony Chohan and Scott Frost.
 
JoeyInCali said:
My ten players,

Rodney Morris
Shane Van Boening
Johnny Archer
Dennis Hatch
Stevie Moore
Gabe Owen
John Schmidt/Danny Harriman playing scotch doubles. :-)
Buddy Hall - after a month on the Stairmaster
Jose Parica - he is an American now right? :-)
Tony Chohan and Scott Frost.
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if you're going to list players for an all around, how can you leave SD off that list? if he's been playing, NO ONE has to like the game...10-ball, 9-ball, 1-hole or banks. The only game he doesn't play is 14.1.
 
If you think about it none of the elite players are money players anymore. How often is there a game unless it's a tar special.

I'm sorry I just can't keep my mouth shut. The guy earlier said winning 70% of your gambling matches is strong. My winning percentage over the last 3 years is only 90%... not very good. (:
 
jay helfert said:
Good post Eric. Johnny is probably the number one US player for the last 15 years at least, both in tourneys and for money. The tail end of Buddy's reign and the beginning of Johnny's overlap a little in the 90's. I don't think Johnny wanted to match up with Buddy back then. Too much mutual respect. All these other guys looking for games just leave Johnny alone. That is the utmost sign of respect in the pool world.

Parica would have definitely played Johnny in the 90's also, but they never got together as far as I know. That's where Johnny drew the line. You're one of Johnny's best friends, so you can ask him if they gambled. I sure don't remember if they did.

My recollection was that in the 90's, Buddy, Johnny and Parica were the kings of pool, for the cash. But somehow Parica was considered the best, mainly because of all the guys he played (or asked to play) and beat back then. I never heard of him turning down a game with anyone. And I think he would have played Buddy and Johnny too if the opportunity arose.
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I know who JA said was the toughest guy to beat-Its not on your list, I cant say, I will say he has very little mention in this thread. I didnt ask tournments or action just who was the hardest to beat. My thing with JA is I dont put what he says in the street.

I will find out about Jose and Buddy, I can only tell you-I wont say it here, I just cant he is my friend and I respect his privacy.:smile:
 
bud green said:
Alive today?

Probably Alex. Who else would chase down someone playing as damn strong as Shane was playing recently and end up taking him down?

Wu and Yang may be the best players in Asia and brutal to beat on their home turf, but they need to prove themselves here before I give them full credit.

In the last 50 years the biggest scores I've heard about are Keith's 375,000 win at $25k a game, Freddies big hustle where he won low six figures, Kid Delicious winning over 300 grand on the road. Robert Byrne has a story where Allen Hopkins beats a guy out of 90 grand and then the guy takes him out to dinner.

Whoever took down the whale in Detroit at the rack in its heyday is probably the overall leader. I have no idea who that might be. I know Cornbread and Searcy did well, but didn't some millionaire dump tens of millions in that hall?
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nobody has a better win-loss record for the money than johnny archer.
 
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