Best One-Pocket Player in the History of The World?
- Thread starter oceanweb
- Start date
I vote for Sonny Springer......Rumor has it that there was one great unknown one-pocket player in the Midlands that was the reincarnation of Grady Mathews. In fact I think he refers to himself as G. Matthews as well.
I was intrigued and amazed by your story until I realized one thing.....You never walked anywhere in your life!
Mike
I was intrigued and amazed by your story until I realized one thing.....You never walked anywhere in your life!
Mike
JoeyA said:that's a nice game and remember watching it. It is kind of funny, Efren has Grady tied up like a boy scout and then walks in front of Grady while he's attempting a critical shot.
But do you think it was an intentional shark? I get the impression that players in some other countries tend to stand close to the table to watch each other play, and they think nothing of it.
I've been trying to compare the handful of older One-Pocket match tapes I've seen with the style of Efren's play in matches such as the Accu-Stats Derby City 2006. Considering the agressive game and the moves-ahead strategy that Efren uses, I think he would have been difficult to beat.
Ken
I'm not sure, but I don't think there is a huge age difference between Ronnie and Efren (perhaps 10 years).
We could have a poll that asked, "what would Ronnie need from Reyes in a money match"?
a. 8 to 7
b. 8 to 6
c. 9 to 5
d. Hand-span spot.
e. Reyes right eye blindfolded, cue bumper first, playing opposite handed.
We could have a poll that asked, "what would Ronnie need from Reyes in a money match"?
a. 8 to 7
b. 8 to 6
c. 9 to 5
d. Hand-span spot.
e. Reyes right eye blindfolded, cue bumper first, playing opposite handed.
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oceanweb said:
Man, that would be a dream match (both of those guys in their prime). But, as most of of the votes seem to suggest, maybe Ronnie would need Bata holed up in traction.
This is one of those questions that really confuses people easily. If you look at Jose Parica's career, Efren's rival. Was he really one of the best of all time or just the best player during his time? Which beg me to question are those old timers really the best there ever were or just the best among the group of talent during their time?
When were the peak years of one-pocket? We could probably narrow the field to that decade. And we look how good is the competition now. How many are true practitioners of one-pocket today?
When were the peak years of one-pocket? We could probably narrow the field to that decade. And we look how good is the competition now. How many are true practitioners of one-pocket today?
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Slider said:
Same Here. I don't think it was an intentional sharking either. I played pool and most of the time, my opponents stands in front of my line of sight, close to the table. Ken's assessment is correct with regards to the intention of the pool players in general. the reason why players stand close to you is because they are checking your shot. to some, this might be quite annoying, but the rest are used to this.
I'm a pretty young guy who plays nothing but straight pool one pocket and banks. I have the priveledge of learning these games from what someone who learned from the best one pocket player.
Artie Bodendorfer
He said that Artie played and broke every top road player that came in to chicago. My mentor learned to bank playing Bugs and Freddie the beard. He also went on the road with Youngblood and Cannonball Lefty when he was young. From what he tells me, Artie didnt have to go on the road cuz all the top players came in just to play him. Sometimes they would get Freddie thinking they got Artie only to get broke by Freddie and then have to come back later to play Artie. This all happened at Besingers which was Artie's room. Efren learned one hole from Freddie and from what I'm told absolutley refused to play Artie. So how strong is that !!! ???
My personal favorite one hole players are Ronnie Allen, Jersey Red, Steve Cook, Grady, and Bugs ( just because he could bank his way out of jams others thought they had him stuck in ).
Efren is definitley the best player of the modern era. But I really wonder how he would have held up in the 60's and 70's when EVERYONE played all games. Nowadays a lot of players focus on only on or two diciplines. My next venture is gonna be 3 cushion. But its hard cuz there is nowhere to play it here in Vegas except Cue Club and I'm not too fond of the riff raff in that place! Anyways , just my 2 cents.
Artie Bodendorfer
He said that Artie played and broke every top road player that came in to chicago. My mentor learned to bank playing Bugs and Freddie the beard. He also went on the road with Youngblood and Cannonball Lefty when he was young. From what he tells me, Artie didnt have to go on the road cuz all the top players came in just to play him. Sometimes they would get Freddie thinking they got Artie only to get broke by Freddie and then have to come back later to play Artie. This all happened at Besingers which was Artie's room. Efren learned one hole from Freddie and from what I'm told absolutley refused to play Artie. So how strong is that !!! ???
My personal favorite one hole players are Ronnie Allen, Jersey Red, Steve Cook, Grady, and Bugs ( just because he could bank his way out of jams others thought they had him stuck in ).
Efren is definitley the best player of the modern era. But I really wonder how he would have held up in the 60's and 70's when EVERYONE played all games. Nowadays a lot of players focus on only on or two diciplines. My next venture is gonna be 3 cushion. But its hard cuz there is nowhere to play it here in Vegas except Cue Club and I'm not too fond of the riff raff in that place! Anyways , just my 2 cents.
Usually when we say in their prime, it means in their most dominant form playing pool. I'm a bit puzzled though considering that most of these great 1p players had their game dwindle down through the years, which can be attributed due to old age. I guess that what makes Effie different, considering the fact he said that he is past his prime and old (52 years old, I think? or is he 54?), yet he still able to come up winning in dominant fashion in big tourneys. no disrespect to other great 1p players, but consistency may have played a role in this selection.
My second best 1p player ..................... Earl Strickland
just kidding guys, my 2nd best 1p player seriously is R. Allen (not Ray Allen; the NBA player )
My second best 1p player ..................... Earl Strickland
just kidding guys, my 2nd best 1p player seriously is R. Allen (not Ray Allen; the NBA player
)
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doubleteersc said:
That would have been nice of how Effie would have faired playing 1p during that era. however, that wouldn't have been possible since Effie only learned 1p when he first came here in the states. he was only starting to play and learning 1p during the time of BUGS in Chicago whom was so to speak, his mentor in the game of 1p. considering the time frame, it would have been possible that Effie did refused to play Artie due to inexperience. but given the same amount of experience and exposure on 1p in that same era, we don't know for sure what could have happened or who could have won if they played their best in their prime!
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PoolBum said:
THE POWER OF INTIMIDATION !
Best?
I think the best player > depends on , "What year is this?" I have seen most of the great and near great, play for many years and they all have "Their time!" Some skills last longer and this keeps them going, that's why they are on the list. And, there is always a new gunfighter looking for the fight!
I think the best player > depends on , "What year is this?" I have seen most of the great and near great, play for many years and they all have "Their time!" Some skills last longer and this keeps them going, that's why they are on the list. And, there is always a new gunfighter looking for the fight!
Interestimg thread here. It's been debated for years now who was/is the best. In my lifetime the two best I've seen were Ronnie and Efren. It's hard for me to choose between the two. Ronnie had a very aggressive style and an amazing ability to create shots and move multiple balls toward his hole.
No one, not even Efren could do that like Ronnie. And Ronnie could and would run ten and out all day long, sometimes from nowhere. He was always spotting someone a game like 10-4 or 10-5.
Efren, on the other hand is equally creative at finding unique moves and safeties that just leave his opponent no way out. He comes up with shots that no one else sees, over and over again. And he does two things better than anyone ever, and I'm not talking about kicking balls. Because Ronnie may have kicked better than Efren at One Hole. What Efren is amazing at is running balls when they are clustered in a pack. He will move the cue ball a few inches and bump balls to put them in postion. He can wind his way thru a traffic jam and run out better than anyone ever.
The second thing that Efren excels at is running balls when they are all down table. He can get behind the balls when they are all within two diamonds of the end rail and run out. He can play position behind balls that are only inches off the end rail. Marshall Carpenter said Rags was the greatest human being he ever saw play One Pocket, but Efren is NOT human.
Efren played Ronnie in L.A. about ten years ago and gave him 8-7 and the break. Ronnie out moved Efren every game and got the first shot, usually running four, five or even six balls. But from there Efren would win anyway, often running out with all the balls down table (see above). In his prime Ronnie would have won all these games. He would have run seven and out game after game. This was an over the hill Ronnie playing a peaking Efren. No match.
Ronnie at his peak would have battled Efren and maybe won, as he was a relentless money player, at his best shooting a difficult shot for the cash. Ronnie rarely missed a tough combo or super thin cut on his out ball. If he had a look at his hole on the game ball, you could lock it up. I watched his show for years and it was equally impressive as the one Efren has put on for the last 15 years.
I have a vision of Efren shaking his head at the run outs and kick shots Ronnie would come up with. And don't underestimate Ronnie's ability to win. He had the best nose for the goal line I ever saw. He could smell the money.
And remember Ronnie had to deal with the likes of Ed Kelly, Jersey Red and Shorty. In my opinion all better One Pocket players than anyone alive today except Efren.
Steve Cook did not want to play Ronnie for big money. For 50 or a 100 a game, it would have been close. But for 500 a game, it would have been all Ronnie. Of course, Steve wouldn't play that high either. Who knows how good Jack Cooney was? He was smart enough not to test himself and reveal his true speed. I suspect he was the second best player in the 70's and 80's.
Ronnie practiced with him for two weeks, getting ready for his match with Danny D. in 1987 in Phoenix. They played 50 a game every day, and broke even over all. That was the last time I saw Ronnie play good, about 90 to 95% his peak game. Efren didn't come into prominence until a few years later.
No one, not even Efren could do that like Ronnie. And Ronnie could and would run ten and out all day long, sometimes from nowhere. He was always spotting someone a game like 10-4 or 10-5.
Efren, on the other hand is equally creative at finding unique moves and safeties that just leave his opponent no way out. He comes up with shots that no one else sees, over and over again. And he does two things better than anyone ever, and I'm not talking about kicking balls. Because Ronnie may have kicked better than Efren at One Hole. What Efren is amazing at is running balls when they are clustered in a pack. He will move the cue ball a few inches and bump balls to put them in postion. He can wind his way thru a traffic jam and run out better than anyone ever.
The second thing that Efren excels at is running balls when they are all down table. He can get behind the balls when they are all within two diamonds of the end rail and run out. He can play position behind balls that are only inches off the end rail. Marshall Carpenter said Rags was the greatest human being he ever saw play One Pocket, but Efren is NOT human.
Efren played Ronnie in L.A. about ten years ago and gave him 8-7 and the break. Ronnie out moved Efren every game and got the first shot, usually running four, five or even six balls. But from there Efren would win anyway, often running out with all the balls down table (see above). In his prime Ronnie would have won all these games. He would have run seven and out game after game. This was an over the hill Ronnie playing a peaking Efren. No match.
Ronnie at his peak would have battled Efren and maybe won, as he was a relentless money player, at his best shooting a difficult shot for the cash. Ronnie rarely missed a tough combo or super thin cut on his out ball. If he had a look at his hole on the game ball, you could lock it up. I watched his show for years and it was equally impressive as the one Efren has put on for the last 15 years.
I have a vision of Efren shaking his head at the run outs and kick shots Ronnie would come up with. And don't underestimate Ronnie's ability to win. He had the best nose for the goal line I ever saw. He could smell the money.
And remember Ronnie had to deal with the likes of Ed Kelly, Jersey Red and Shorty. In my opinion all better One Pocket players than anyone alive today except Efren.
Steve Cook did not want to play Ronnie for big money. For 50 or a 100 a game, it would have been close. But for 500 a game, it would have been all Ronnie. Of course, Steve wouldn't play that high either. Who knows how good Jack Cooney was? He was smart enough not to test himself and reveal his true speed. I suspect he was the second best player in the 70's and 80's.
Ronnie practiced with him for two weeks, getting ready for his match with Danny D. in 1987 in Phoenix. They played 50 a game every day, and broke even over all. That was the last time I saw Ronnie play good, about 90 to 95% his peak game. Efren didn't come into prominence until a few years later.
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I was waiting for Jay
I was waiting for Jay to step in so I could second-guess, and disagree with my old pal. Steve Cook, while being one of the few people on a very short list who I give credit to for really knowing the game of OnePocket, was miles away from Ronnie -- or Artie Bodendorfer. We keep forgetting about Artie. Jay, because he wasn't around him, everyone else, because he never appeared in any tournaments. Jay mentioned Jersey Red and Boston Shorty, Artie beat both of them.
As for Jack Cooney being #2, Jack lived and hustled with me in Chicago when he played Bugs Rucker on the West Side. Bugs gave Jack one-hit-and-the-pick, a monster spot. Bugs had us $2500 loser at the game before Jack finally got loose and won the money. Believe me, Jack would have been no match for Bugs playing even. When Jack first started hanging in my joint, North Shore Billiards, Artie was at first skeptical about playing Jack. Jack's rep had Artie somewhat intimidated. They wound up playing together as partners against a weak player (Grady Humphreys), giving him a big spot for big money. After a few days, Artie, frustrated by Jack's shot selection, suggested they quit the partners game and play against each other. Jack, on the other hand, was quite impressed with Artie's shot selection and asked for 10 to 8.
the Beard
jay helfert said:
I was waiting for Jay to step in so I could second-guess, and disagree with my old pal. Steve Cook, while being one of the few people on a very short list who I give credit to for really knowing the game of OnePocket, was miles away from Ronnie -- or Artie Bodendorfer. We keep forgetting about Artie. Jay, because he wasn't around him, everyone else, because he never appeared in any tournaments. Jay mentioned Jersey Red and Boston Shorty, Artie beat both of them.
As for Jack Cooney being #2, Jack lived and hustled with me in Chicago when he played Bugs Rucker on the West Side. Bugs gave Jack one-hit-and-the-pick, a monster spot. Bugs had us $2500 loser at the game before Jack finally got loose and won the money. Believe me, Jack would have been no match for Bugs playing even. When Jack first started hanging in my joint, North Shore Billiards, Artie was at first skeptical about playing Jack. Jack's rep had Artie somewhat intimidated. They wound up playing together as partners against a weak player (Grady Humphreys), giving him a big spot for big money. After a few days, Artie, frustrated by Jack's shot selection, suggested they quit the partners game and play against each other. Jack, on the other hand, was quite impressed with Artie's shot selection and asked for 10 to 8.
the Beard