I have to vote for Fast Larry.
(heheh) Sorry couldnt resist.
(heheh) Sorry couldnt resist.
best player ever?
- Thread starter jimmyquinella
- Start date
best of the best??????
I would vote for Buddy Hall and Steve Mizerak, for playing the pattern properly when running out over the years. Not trying to start a fuss, I just was amazed at both of there playing ability and getting out patterns.
We all have our faviortes.
blud.
jimmyquinella said:
I would vote for Buddy Hall and Steve Mizerak, for playing the pattern properly when running out over the years. Not trying to start a fuss, I just was amazed at both of there playing ability and getting out patterns.
We all have our faviortes.
blud.
Personally, I think it's Bob Romano!
fast who ?
Louie Roberts
who would be the best player ever,,,,,,,,,
the one who plays best when gambling,,,the best tournament player,,,or one who beats them both, but only in practice?
and let me spice it up a bit because you all will probably go for the gambler or tournament player. let's say the practice player does things no one seen before, a reyes on steroids, who trounces the other two in practice. i mean TROUNCES.
the one who plays best when gambling,,,the best tournament player,,,or one who beats them both, but only in practice?
and let me spice it up a bit because you all will probably go for the gambler or tournament player. let's say the practice player does things no one seen before, a reyes on steroids, who trounces the other two in practice. i mean TROUNCES.
K
King Cueball
Guest
Im going to give two players this time. Im going to say Efren Reyes and Luther lassiter.
I never saw Mosconi or Greenleaf although I am sure they were great.
Of all the players I have seen play alot I will tip my hat to Sigel as the best ever for 9-ball. The guy had/has the complete package, a super break, dead accurate potting, pinpoint shape play, awesome kick shots, an unreal safety game, and he was a killer under the pressure when it mattered the most.
If you want a more rounded player I will say Efren for overall the best cueist in all games. I don't think he ever was quite as dangerous in 9-ball as Sigel was in his prime but he was still amazing at 9-ball and was unreal at 8-ball, straight, and 1-pocket as well. Supposedly the guy is world class at snooker and plays great 3 cushion as well. Hard to beat that.
Of all the players I have seen play alot I will tip my hat to Sigel as the best ever for 9-ball. The guy had/has the complete package, a super break, dead accurate potting, pinpoint shape play, awesome kick shots, an unreal safety game, and he was a killer under the pressure when it mattered the most.
If you want a more rounded player I will say Efren for overall the best cueist in all games. I don't think he ever was quite as dangerous in 9-ball as Sigel was in his prime but he was still amazing at 9-ball and was unreal at 8-ball, straight, and 1-pocket as well. Supposedly the guy is world class at snooker and plays great 3 cushion as well. Hard to beat that.
Really I'd say three players in a toss-up:LastTwo said:
Efren, Greenleaf & Mosconi
Of course, both Greenleaf and Mosconi were measured primarily by Straight Pool -- by far. Although Efren has won at Straight Pool (The Maine Event in 1995), he doesn't focus on it enough to rack up the big high runs that both Mosconi did and Greenleaf did (on a 5x10 table!). All three reportedly could/can play pretty well on billiard tables, and all three were/are known for excellent mastery of the cue ball, and mastery of the entire table. All three certainly had long and dominant careers (of course Efren's still goes on, and on...
)Man, wouldn't that be a match-up in heaven -- a ring game with those three! Mosconi dapper, dignified and moving 'like a dancer' -- but apparently a little tempramental, too
Efren, often a little frumpy in appearance, but stoic and masterful, in his unique style that is both deliberate and flowing at the same time
Greenleaf the showman, the shotmaker with pinpoint position and his renowned flair (while we are at it, could we have his wife, 'Princess something-or-other' rack the balls
)Another player that apparently was kind of a pool equivalent to Satchel Paige in baseball, would be James Evans -- who knows how he would have matched up with Greenleaf and Mosconi -- because he didn't get the chance on account of discrimination
Sigel was a great 9-ball as well as Straight Pool player -- I can see the tempation to throw him in the mix -- too bad he sort of quit so early in the game...
Lassiter certainly another knocking at the door...
If I had to pick just one, I'd probably go with Efren -- partly because I have seen him live
and partly because of his clear all-around mastery at every different game he has tried.
Last edited:
fast larry
Banned
The fast dudes top 10 of all time picks.
billfishhead
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: nw fla
Posts: 141
fast who ?
Billy, there is only one fast dude dude. He doesn’t belong on this list of champions however.
May I give you the fast dudes top 10 list here?
You all did not read the question. He asked who was the best player, not the best pool player. Therefore that opens the door to any one who played with a cue, a cueist and enters English billiards, snooker and billiards. I have a small advantage over the younger posters because I was able to actually play 8 or the 10 on this list and see one play in person and observe one on tape. My observations are not from a book or from what some body else wrote. These are my personal observations and opinions. IMHO most belong on this top 10. We could argue about who’s 2 or #5 till the cows come home.
We need to see billiards now as a world wide game with champions in every country. We need to see and learn about other great cueist from the Snooker and Billiard worlds. Guys there is a bigger game and scope of this beyond 9 ball, there is even the new sport unfolding called Artistic. So many great champions playing many different games. If they are great in their game, then they are great. You must get away from this narrow vision that if a guy does not play 9 ball and he plays that funny game called snooker he can't be anything.
The only reason Steve Davis did not come to the USA and wipe everyone off the map like Allison did was the money here bites the big weiner. The American pros play for a week for the winner to make 15K. Steve Davis gets that for walking into a cocktail party. He is making over a million pounds a year in England and he is going to come over here to become number one and make $80,000. That is why he did not come and dominate the men Like Allison did to the American women. The only reason she came was the reverse, there was no money there because nobody wanted to see a woman play, they wanted to see Steve Davis and Jimmy White and Stephen Hendry play. There was more money in the USA in 9 ball and here she came running. If she could make a million pounds in England today playing snooker she would be gone and you would never see her again.
One thing we cannot argue about is who is number one. There is no debate possible on the greatest player of all time, none, sorry. He never played pool after he was 9 years old. From the time he was 7 yrs old he was out on the road as a pro playing for money and performing exhibitions for large sums of cash. He was supporting his entire family with his cue before he was 9 yrs old. He was called the boy wonder. His first world victory in Paris in 1908 over Maurice Vinguax was the greatest match and victory of the century. Fortunes changed hands and Hoppe walked out a millionaire in today’s money. He won his first world in 1908 at 18 yrs old and his last world title in the l950’s when he was in his 60’s. He is the only player to win world titles in 6 consecutive decades, that alone wins him the #1 title. He was the greatest star to ever hold a cue in his hands.
He was a Balkline player and later turned to 3-cushion when Jake Shaefer was cleaning his clock. One of the great gifts God gave me was to be able to actually see or play with almost all of the great players of the last century and all of the main stars of the golden age. Two of the players on this list of 10 are my teachers. The 2nd gift God gave me was to be trained by Minnesota Fats and Omaha Fats, pool’s two greatest hustlers of all time. I was able to have attended almost all of the Johnston city jamboree events during the early and mid 60’s and see the top 100 greatest pool hustlers of all time in action. In the back room for serious cash or out in the pit playing for a tin cup. I even played a few of them also back then when I gambled on my game a bit. I know a great player when I see one.
Remember I began play during WWII and most of those great stars passed away in the late 50's so I was around then. I have them on tape from the late 20's and 30's so I can watch them play in their prime and judge what their games were. They are forever young on tape. Rarely does a week go by that I do not watch Willie Hoppe play. I do that for him to inspire me because what he does is mostly what I teach today.
I saw Hoppe and Greenleaf play and do exhibitions in person, I played with Mosconi. Got beat badly twice but in his prime nobody beat him. He was unbeatable. Minnesota Fats and Jimmy Caras were my teachers. I never saw Lindgrum play but I have him on tape to closely observe his game. So here is my list gentlemen, the greatest player of all time, the greatest star of all time are:
The greatest player who ever held a cue? Nobody ever got close to his star power and fame. He holds 100 world championship crowns. Nobody in any category even comes close to him. In his era he was equal to Babe Ruth.
He made more money than the Bambino or the president. Hall of famer.
(1) Willie Hoppe, Cromwell, NY, USA.
Probably the greatest player who ever lived. His records and his victories are so Hugh they are hard to believe. Virtually unknown in this country. He was from Oz, down under. No worries mate, this bloke has a serious claim even to take the top #1 spot.
(2) Walter Lindgrum Australia
The greatest pool player of his time, his record is almost equal with Mosoni's but hard drink cut his career 10 yrs short. He was the greatest star pool has ever had. He also in his time in his game, Pool, was equal in star status to Hoppe or Babe Ruth. Hall of famer
(3) Ralph Greenleaf NYC, USA.
The greatest ball runner of all time and holder of the most world championships in pool. Hall of famer
(4) Willie Mosconi Philadelphia, Pa, USA
My fifth pick is not a great player. He was a great gambler and showman. In playing ability, ball running ability he does not stack up to any one on this list. Have Mike Sigel and Steve Mizerak both walk into a room and set up on a table and begin doing a show in the far opposite corners of the pool room and begin to do what ever they want to do. Say the year is 1980 and Have Minnesota Fats walk in and set up in the 3rd corner on a table. He does not even have to take his cue out of his case. He can stand there and just bull S*** and soon Mike and Miz does not have a single person watching them. The entire room is around fatty. He can hold them there mesmerized and never pot a ball or perform a trick shot. He was the greatest star and attraction of his era. He still is today the most recognized name in pool. Does any name survey any where on earth today and his name comes up first. Hall of famer. He also had a dog that played pool.
At one time he had over 50 dogs and he fed them all and treated them like kings. The man had a heart of gold.
(5) Rudolph Walderone, aka, Minnesota Fats. NYC, CHI, Southern Ill, USA.
The greatest Snooker player of all time. He has won more money than any body else on this list. The greatest ball potter of his time. Simply a world wide super star.
(6) Steve Davis. UK.
(7) The greatest 3-cushion billiard player of his time, Mr. 100, winning 100 world wide victories. Hall of famer
Raymound Cuelemans Belgium
The greatest Balkline player of all time. The man had the touch of a Hong Kong subway pickpocket. Hall of famer.
(8) Jake Schaefer Jr USA.
A 5 time world champion, hall of famer. A 3 time world champion before Mosconi broke through and began his dominance. He was also one of my teachers. Of the golden age ball runners he put on the best over all show and shot the best trick shots.
(9) Jimmy Caras Jacksonville, Fla, USA.
A real class guy. He was the only player to win pool world championships in 4 separate decades. The first player to run over 300 balls on a 5x10' table with 4 l/2" pockets in 1939. His 150 and out on national TV in the 1965 US open against Joe Balsis, the meatman sealed his fame and preserved his game on film for future generations to study. The teacher of Mike Sigel. Hall of famer.
(10) Irving Crane New York, USA
Do have fun debating my personal picks. Maybe I am right on some, maybe I am wrong, who knows.
A Quote from a Billiard Player who sometimes stopped playing and wrote a book or two of note. SC.
'' It were not best that we should all think alike:
It is difference of opinion that makes horse races."
The Billiard player was Mark Twain.
May God bless and peace be with you. May the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall. VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. Latin for “I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all.
“Fast Larry” Guninger
FL RESPONDS;Celtic said:
billfishhead
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: nw fla
Posts: 141
fast who ?
Billy, there is only one fast dude dude. He doesn’t belong on this list of champions however.
May I give you the fast dudes top 10 list here?
You all did not read the question. He asked who was the best player, not the best pool player. Therefore that opens the door to any one who played with a cue, a cueist and enters English billiards, snooker and billiards. I have a small advantage over the younger posters because I was able to actually play 8 or the 10 on this list and see one play in person and observe one on tape. My observations are not from a book or from what some body else wrote. These are my personal observations and opinions. IMHO most belong on this top 10. We could argue about who’s 2 or #5 till the cows come home.
We need to see billiards now as a world wide game with champions in every country. We need to see and learn about other great cueist from the Snooker and Billiard worlds. Guys there is a bigger game and scope of this beyond 9 ball, there is even the new sport unfolding called Artistic. So many great champions playing many different games. If they are great in their game, then they are great. You must get away from this narrow vision that if a guy does not play 9 ball and he plays that funny game called snooker he can't be anything.
The only reason Steve Davis did not come to the USA and wipe everyone off the map like Allison did was the money here bites the big weiner. The American pros play for a week for the winner to make 15K. Steve Davis gets that for walking into a cocktail party. He is making over a million pounds a year in England and he is going to come over here to become number one and make $80,000. That is why he did not come and dominate the men Like Allison did to the American women. The only reason she came was the reverse, there was no money there because nobody wanted to see a woman play, they wanted to see Steve Davis and Jimmy White and Stephen Hendry play. There was more money in the USA in 9 ball and here she came running. If she could make a million pounds in England today playing snooker she would be gone and you would never see her again.
One thing we cannot argue about is who is number one. There is no debate possible on the greatest player of all time, none, sorry. He never played pool after he was 9 years old. From the time he was 7 yrs old he was out on the road as a pro playing for money and performing exhibitions for large sums of cash. He was supporting his entire family with his cue before he was 9 yrs old. He was called the boy wonder. His first world victory in Paris in 1908 over Maurice Vinguax was the greatest match and victory of the century. Fortunes changed hands and Hoppe walked out a millionaire in today’s money. He won his first world in 1908 at 18 yrs old and his last world title in the l950’s when he was in his 60’s. He is the only player to win world titles in 6 consecutive decades, that alone wins him the #1 title. He was the greatest star to ever hold a cue in his hands.
He was a Balkline player and later turned to 3-cushion when Jake Shaefer was cleaning his clock. One of the great gifts God gave me was to be able to actually see or play with almost all of the great players of the last century and all of the main stars of the golden age. Two of the players on this list of 10 are my teachers. The 2nd gift God gave me was to be trained by Minnesota Fats and Omaha Fats, pool’s two greatest hustlers of all time. I was able to have attended almost all of the Johnston city jamboree events during the early and mid 60’s and see the top 100 greatest pool hustlers of all time in action. In the back room for serious cash or out in the pit playing for a tin cup. I even played a few of them also back then when I gambled on my game a bit. I know a great player when I see one.
Remember I began play during WWII and most of those great stars passed away in the late 50's so I was around then. I have them on tape from the late 20's and 30's so I can watch them play in their prime and judge what their games were. They are forever young on tape. Rarely does a week go by that I do not watch Willie Hoppe play. I do that for him to inspire me because what he does is mostly what I teach today.
I saw Hoppe and Greenleaf play and do exhibitions in person, I played with Mosconi. Got beat badly twice but in his prime nobody beat him. He was unbeatable. Minnesota Fats and Jimmy Caras were my teachers. I never saw Lindgrum play but I have him on tape to closely observe his game. So here is my list gentlemen, the greatest player of all time, the greatest star of all time are:
The greatest player who ever held a cue? Nobody ever got close to his star power and fame. He holds 100 world championship crowns. Nobody in any category even comes close to him. In his era he was equal to Babe Ruth.
He made more money than the Bambino or the president. Hall of famer.
(1) Willie Hoppe, Cromwell, NY, USA.
Probably the greatest player who ever lived. His records and his victories are so Hugh they are hard to believe. Virtually unknown in this country. He was from Oz, down under. No worries mate, this bloke has a serious claim even to take the top #1 spot.
(2) Walter Lindgrum Australia
The greatest pool player of his time, his record is almost equal with Mosoni's but hard drink cut his career 10 yrs short. He was the greatest star pool has ever had. He also in his time in his game, Pool, was equal in star status to Hoppe or Babe Ruth. Hall of famer
(3) Ralph Greenleaf NYC, USA.
The greatest ball runner of all time and holder of the most world championships in pool. Hall of famer
(4) Willie Mosconi Philadelphia, Pa, USA
My fifth pick is not a great player. He was a great gambler and showman. In playing ability, ball running ability he does not stack up to any one on this list. Have Mike Sigel and Steve Mizerak both walk into a room and set up on a table and begin doing a show in the far opposite corners of the pool room and begin to do what ever they want to do. Say the year is 1980 and Have Minnesota Fats walk in and set up in the 3rd corner on a table. He does not even have to take his cue out of his case. He can stand there and just bull S*** and soon Mike and Miz does not have a single person watching them. The entire room is around fatty. He can hold them there mesmerized and never pot a ball or perform a trick shot. He was the greatest star and attraction of his era. He still is today the most recognized name in pool. Does any name survey any where on earth today and his name comes up first. Hall of famer. He also had a dog that played pool.
At one time he had over 50 dogs and he fed them all and treated them like kings. The man had a heart of gold.
(5) Rudolph Walderone, aka, Minnesota Fats. NYC, CHI, Southern Ill, USA.
The greatest Snooker player of all time. He has won more money than any body else on this list. The greatest ball potter of his time. Simply a world wide super star.
(6) Steve Davis. UK.
(7) The greatest 3-cushion billiard player of his time, Mr. 100, winning 100 world wide victories. Hall of famer
Raymound Cuelemans Belgium
The greatest Balkline player of all time. The man had the touch of a Hong Kong subway pickpocket. Hall of famer.
(8) Jake Schaefer Jr USA.
A 5 time world champion, hall of famer. A 3 time world champion before Mosconi broke through and began his dominance. He was also one of my teachers. Of the golden age ball runners he put on the best over all show and shot the best trick shots.
(9) Jimmy Caras Jacksonville, Fla, USA.
A real class guy. He was the only player to win pool world championships in 4 separate decades. The first player to run over 300 balls on a 5x10' table with 4 l/2" pockets in 1939. His 150 and out on national TV in the 1965 US open against Joe Balsis, the meatman sealed his fame and preserved his game on film for future generations to study. The teacher of Mike Sigel. Hall of famer.
(10) Irving Crane New York, USA
Do have fun debating my personal picks. Maybe I am right on some, maybe I am wrong, who knows.
A Quote from a Billiard Player who sometimes stopped playing and wrote a book or two of note. SC.
'' It were not best that we should all think alike:
It is difference of opinion that makes horse races."
The Billiard player was Mark Twain.
May God bless and peace be with you. May the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall. VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. Latin for “I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all.
“Fast Larry” Guninger
Last edited:
Minnesota Fats a top 5'r? 
Larry, why are you prefacing your number 5 pick?
Efren would have robbed him.
A top 10 list without Efren's name there somewhere is a crime.
Hoppe, Greenleaf, Mosconi, Efren, Crane, Sigel, Hall, Mizerak, Strickland...
Larry, why are you prefacing your number 5 pick?
Efren would have robbed him.
A top 10 list without Efren's name there somewhere is a crime.
Hoppe, Greenleaf, Mosconi, Efren, Crane, Sigel, Hall, Mizerak, Strickland...
Good list, Fl. But a question. The old timers told me
Hoppe was a great pocket player but his true greatness
was in 3 cushion billiards. The real old guys say nobody
was ever better in pocket billiards than Greenleaf & guys
my age swear by Mosconi. Comments? Also, I'm glad
you included Irving Crane. I used to love to watch that
guy play.
Hoppe was a great pocket player but his true greatness
was in 3 cushion billiards. The real old guys say nobody
was ever better in pocket billiards than Greenleaf & guys
my age swear by Mosconi. Comments? Also, I'm glad
you included Irving Crane. I used to love to watch that
guy play.
Joseph Cues said:Minnesota Fats a top 5'r?
Larry, why are you prefacing your number 5 pick?
Efren would have robbed him.
A top 10 list without Efren's name there somewhere is a crime.
Hoppe, Greenleaf, Mosconi, Efren, Crane, Sigel, Hall, Mizerak, Strickland...
Joseph, I think if you read carefully what Fl said you would
know that he would agree with you. He included Fats
for other reasons. Talk to non- pool enthusiasts. There's
only 1 player they ever heard of. Minnesota Fats.
Joseph Cues said:Minnesota Fats a top 5'r?
Larry, why are you prefacing your number 5 pick?
Efren would have robbed him.
A top 10 list without Efren's name there somewhere is a crime.
Hoppe, Greenleaf, Mosconi, Efren, Crane, Sigel, Hall, Mizerak, Strickland...
Got to agree with JC on this one Larry. Not arguing with your other picks but like JC said, if you leave Efren out of the top 5, it's a crime. Fatty has to go. Fatty was the greatest promoter of the game ever but playing above Efren? Never. You might ask Sonny Springer on this one. He played Fatty at Johnston City and other places.