Seen too many eventually develop a dark ring at the bottom from the gap. They eventually move.
Best way to replace a threaded ferrule?
- Thread starter PariahZero
- Start date
I never had one move or develope a dark line.......... maybe you don't do your fit up or glue correctly..............
The tube, NON- threaded ferrules ALWAYS move over time...the only thing holding them is a glue bond with no Mechanical bond that threading provides....and when the moisture content in the air changes, either due to humidity outside, or air conditioning inside or like up here in the northeast, dry as a bone in winter and wet as a noodle in the summer..the tenon shrinks or expands accordingly, and breaks the glue bond. With no mechanical bond...it will move and eventually pop the tip right off. This is fact, not opinion
totally false............. they do not always move.............. not a fact ......... just something you believe with no proof\\\
Kim
OK, wheres your proof that they NEVER move?? There is no way you can make the claim that they never move, I started in 1988 working for the largest pooltable vendor in Western mass and was there for 11 yrs, and have done repairson my own over 23yrs . I have handled, literally, thousands of bar cues and import 2 piece cues that use the tube ferrule style. Even the famous Dufferins move over time. The only ones that usually don't end up moving/loosening/falling off are the ones that are threaded, and I have even seen those loosen too, like McDermotts. Sorry If you do not agree, but I believe in giving factual info, based on the thousands I've worked on.
Owner of these shafts brought them in for ferrule replacement.
He brought his own ferrule rods ( I don't stock these kind . You know what they are ).
Good thing his rods were a little over an inch.
Tenons had vertical glue grooves and 3 glue rings.
Great thing was they were oversized at .325.
These came from a very well-tooled shop.
They have some dozen lathes . But, they do not thread their ferrules.
Old ferrules moved and had gaps at the bottom. Ferrules were still tight .
Really not hard to press fit ferrules.
More craftsmanship is involved in making shouldered and threaded ferrules.
I've sold dozens of custom made thread miller to cue makers and repair people.
Not one came back.
As Dave mentioned, McDermott ferrules move too. They only thread the top portion and the material they used was known to absorb moisture.
He brought his own ferrule rods ( I don't stock these kind . You know what they are ).
Good thing his rods were a little over an inch.
Tenons had vertical glue grooves and 3 glue rings.
Great thing was they were oversized at .325.
These came from a very well-tooled shop.
They have some dozen lathes . But, they do not thread their ferrules.
Old ferrules moved and had gaps at the bottom. Ferrules were still tight .
Really not hard to press fit ferrules.
More craftsmanship is involved in making shouldered and threaded ferrules.
I've sold dozens of custom made thread miller to cue makers and repair people.
Not one came back.
As Dave mentioned, McDermott ferrules move too. They only thread the top portion and the material they used was known to absorb moisture.
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PariahZero
Member
Out of curiosity, what do you think of this method
I wonder if he’s showing a valid method, or showing off his considerable skills.
JC
Coos Cues
That's the video I watched that led to the compression die getting seized on my tenon. All the way to the bottom in one feed.
First, I have to say Bob is THE MAN, IMO. It does work, but I found that the size of the tenon is critical to the actual tenon threader used. I have tried the Atlas one, Porper one, and now have the Hightower brass one. I have found that what works for me is cutting the tenon a tad smaller than they state, and also using beeswax works the best, as Bob showed. I have twisted off tenons and in 2 cases it was because I didn't let go fast enough but most were due to the tenon size being a bit too large. I now use .277". When the first time that happened, I used a drill to remove the wood and it damaged the threader beyond repair....my bad. Also, the type of wood being done makes a difference too, like Ramin wood or ash will not thread the same as maple, with these I usually soak the tenon with thin CA first, then take the finish pass again at the same size...makes better threads..
Mine will thread like that 90 percent of the time. But that 10 percent of the time you strip the threads or twist a tenon off are a real pain.
I can see that threading & maybe plain titebond glue would give a secure, no-glueline install.
Personally, not yet willing to give up on drilled shafts (9/32”/ 12.5- 12.75 OD). As mostly a hobbyist, there have only been 4 in 3 other peoples use besides my own but i much prefer the hit. Capped melamine ferules, loctite black/stress resistant cyano, no ferule failures over some half dozen years, but we are all advanced level
bangers.
One shaft failure where our low 600’s fargo guy was at a tournament & impulsively had an on site tech turn the shaft down to a smaller pro-taper. Played well but later, locally, another ranked player told him it sounded cracked. It was. ( the shaft, back about 6” from the ferule.)
If i ever get out from under personal construction projects maybe next fall, i’d like to try some Ultem1000. Have some on hand for butts which can be threaded/treated like delrin. Waiting to hear from 3M & Loctite what stickum might be reliable for sleeve ferules, though. The ferule can have a very shallow fine thread for “tooth” but nothing on the smooth tenon - the wall is too thin.
Personally, not yet willing to give up on drilled shafts (9/32”/ 12.5- 12.75 OD). As mostly a hobbyist, there have only been 4 in 3 other peoples use besides my own but i much prefer the hit. Capped melamine ferules, loctite black/stress resistant cyano, no ferule failures over some half dozen years, but we are all advanced level
bangers.One shaft failure where our low 600’s fargo guy was at a tournament & impulsively had an on site tech turn the shaft down to a smaller pro-taper. Played well but later, locally, another ranked player told him it sounded cracked. It was. ( the shaft, back about 6” from the ferule.)
If i ever get out from under personal construction projects maybe next fall, i’d like to try some Ultem1000. Have some on hand for butts which can be threaded/treated like delrin. Waiting to hear from 3M & Loctite what stickum might be reliable for sleeve ferules, though. The ferule can have a very shallow fine thread for “tooth” but nothing on the smooth tenon - the wall is too thin.
PariahZero
Member
I’ll have to look up that plastic.
For kicks (experimentation), I’ve been debating if I want to go to the trouble and/or expense of trying the adhesion promoters and flexible CA with Delrin. There’s also some specialty epoxy that can bond Delrin (for $90 a tube).
I’d also like to try etching Delrin in chromic acid as 3M recommends — but making the chromic acid is an energetic/tricky reaction. (Potentially boiling sulfuric acid demands a certain level of respect).
PariahZero
Member
Apparently Ultem1000 is not easy to bond. Reltek has a page describing their products for bonding the stuff, and what kind of strength to expect: 500 psi with their specialty epoxy, and 900 psi if primed properly.
McMaster-Carr sells the epoxy (the same stuff that works on Delrin), but it is expensive. I’m far from an expert, but I really doubt the price/performance works out favorably for Ultem1000.
always glad to have other input- sounds like you have a technical background as well.
i have spent time searching the “likely” sources including Reltek. Loctite 414 is about the best looking somewhat reasonable product more or less available off a shelf from some suppliers. i filled out 3M’s feedback form telling them how bad it is. Not just recently but in past searches. Using search terms like <bond> <glue> <adhere> <ultem> <PEI> <polyetherimide> in likely combinations failed to yield other than suggestions for packing tape on the corporate tech search page. Their response a day later was an apology, we’ll get the IT guys on it. Never addressed the q. The reason i had even persisted is that ingoogle searches some of their products show up . I wanted to understand what was merely opportunistic search engine responses or if there was any merit.
so far leaning Loctite.
Acquired natural Ultem 1000 (iow unfilled, amber) as a resource option for furniture & decorative hardware i sometimes make. Possibly for plane totes, if ever inspired to make more. Sometimes having nice materials is inspiration. Sometimes it is just hoarding.
Anyway, it is different enough i will use it in the next couple butts. I like hard materials. Despite being difficult to glue, i don’t see a problem treating it like delrin. Threaded, some divots across the threads, & epoxy. For tips, the density is less than many micartas & again, the look is different. I’d really like to just jump in the shop and make some shafts to try it and fill out some of the finished butts on hand. Unfortunately there’s not only the relentless house construction, the phone has been ringing about wood parts for a restoration job in DC due by end of march.
PS: since ca does not bond to ultem, something to bond tips will be the big factor, separate from adhering the ferule.
smt
i have spent time searching the “likely” sources including Reltek. Loctite 414 is about the best looking somewhat reasonable product more or less available off a shelf from some suppliers. i filled out 3M’s feedback form telling them how bad it is. Not just recently but in past searches. Using search terms like <bond> <glue> <adhere> <ultem> <PEI> <polyetherimide> in likely combinations failed to yield other than suggestions for packing tape on the corporate tech search page. Their response a day later was an apology, we’ll get the IT guys on it. Never addressed the q. The reason i had even persisted is that ingoogle searches some of their products show up . I wanted to understand what was merely opportunistic search engine responses or if there was any merit.
so far leaning Loctite.
Acquired natural Ultem 1000 (iow unfilled, amber) as a resource option for furniture & decorative hardware i sometimes make. Possibly for plane totes, if ever inspired to make more. Sometimes having nice materials is inspiration. Sometimes it is just hoarding.
Anyway, it is different enough i will use it in the next couple butts. I like hard materials. Despite being difficult to glue, i don’t see a problem treating it like delrin. Threaded, some divots across the threads, & epoxy. For tips, the density is less than many micartas & again, the look is different. I’d really like to just jump in the shop and make some shafts to try it and fill out some of the finished butts on hand. Unfortunately there’s not only the relentless house construction, the phone has been ringing about wood parts for a restoration job in DC due by end of march.
PS: since ca does not bond to ultem, something to bond tips will be the big factor, separate from adhering the ferule.
smt
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