Better equipment, shafts, Tips, and Kamui Chalk, but the 526 RUN RECORDS Stands?

SpiderWebComm said:
You're picking fly shit out of pepper. It's been known forever that the 8'er in question played wide-open. If it wasn't 5.5", it was 5". Either way, the conditions were such that any talented guy would run a LOT of balls on it.

Comparing his run to other "attempt venues" such as DCC or SBE is a joke. They should setup some peach-basket 8'er instead of a Diamond Pro-cut table. Compare apples to apples or don't compare anything at all.

Not taking anything away from Willie - just saying his equipment increased his odds for a large run by a nice percentage.

p.s.

I think the thread/quote in question involved a pic of "you" at the urinal asking some dude about CTE.
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Of course the table is widely recognized to have been 8' and super soft.

But my questions to you remain: was it a direct quote? Or, are you used to putting quotation marks around words someone else has not actually said?

And: where's that grand CTE paper of yours you promised everyone for so long?

Lou Figueroa
 
The Saw said:
Well, I'll make it gospel then.... Johnny Jacket (Jackewiscz ?sp?) told me. If it was some old hack that was full of hot air I wouldn't give it any credibility. But it came from a super solid guy that worked a regular job, was a really good player, and wouldn't tell a lie or stretch the truth under any circumstance. He told me about the table long before Wikipedia and azbilliards. What he said matched up with the 5-1/2" buckets though... He was in bad health the last I heard but I have put out a few feelers for how to contact him, if he's still with us. If I can get with him I will go see him and record his statement of what the table actually was and post it for all to see.
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Never heard of him, but knock yourself out.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
hmmmm, no.

Correct me if I'm wrong with a page number, but what Grady said about Mosconi in that book was that, while a great player, in his opionion Mosconi was an asshole. No news there.

Lou Figueroa
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yeah he came out and said that. which is what i really liked about grady's book. he told it how he wanted to tell it. no stupid censoring to not be rude.

his book isn't the only place i've heard that before though. i've heard mosconi's run was on a 4by8 table with big pockets. even if it was a 9ft table just hearing that the pockets were bigger takes a lot away from it. when John Schmidt did his run it was on a pretty tight diamond table.

just being a diamond alone gives it a little more cool ness to it. i've seen some runs on youtube with people playing on big pockets and some of the balls hit a half diamond before the pocket and still go. you dont see stuff like that on a diamond!
 
SpiderWebComm said:
You're picking fly shit out of pepper. It's been known forever that the 8'er in question played wide-open. If it wasn't 5.5", it was 5". Either way, the conditions were such that any talented guy would run a LOT of balls on it.

Comparing his run to other "attempt venues" such as DCC or SBE is a joke. They should setup some peach-basket 8'er instead of a Diamond Pro-cut table. Compare apples to apples or don't compare anything at all.

Not taking anything away from Willie - just saying his equipment increased his odds for a large run by a nice percentage.
p.s.


.
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To the contrary, the old equipment made it way more difficult to run balls, even with huge pockets (as some suggest). Just ask the old timers. The worsted cloth was directional, so good luck getting anything separated when you whack the balls. The balls may not have been perfectly round or identical in construction. Chalk was not as developed either. Tables were essentially hand made - which means they had inherent defects. Overall, the improvements we've made in half a century should make it much easier to run 500+, not make it harder.

-td
 
td873 said:
To the contrary, the old equipment made it way more difficult to run balls, even with huge pockets (as some suggest). Just ask the old timers. The worsted cloth was directional, so good luck getting anything separated when you whack the balls. The balls may not have been perfectly round or identical in construction. Chalk was not as developed either. Tables were essentially hand made - which means they had inherent defects. Overall, the improvements we've made in half a century should make it much easier to run 500+, not make it harder.

-td
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TD:

Actually, methinks you meant nap cloth instead of worsted cloth, correct? The old-time cloth had a directional nap (just like today's snooker cloth, or the Gorina cloth used in IPT matches). Worsted cloth is one with no nap, and is the basis of all cloths used today (e.g. Simonis).

Some things about the old equipment, though:

  • Today's cushions are livelier. Or, put a different way, the old cushions were a bit mushier than today's cushions. You could slam a ball down a rail at high speed, and if it glanced the rail on the way down, you had less chance of it jarring as you do today. You can actually see this in some of the old Mosconi instructional videos on how to run balls (e.g. that "break shots" video on Vimeo that gets mentioned here often).

  • The pocket shelfs were not as deep as they are today. A ball could be hit somewhat bad, and on today's equipment, that ball would spit out or jar with the ball sitting on the shelf. That same ball on older equipment would fall, because it's already deep enough in the pocket, past the point of falling over the precipice of the shelf.

  • The pocket cuts on the old equipment preferred pocketing a slightly off-hit ball (especially down the rail, as mentioned). Today's equipment will spit a ball out or jar it if it's hit hard and not precise.
Just some thoughts,
-Sean
 
poolplayer2093 said:
i sold the book a while ago. you asking because you thnk i'm making it up?
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I'm asking for two reasons. First: this is a world record by, arguably, the greatest pool player of all time. If you're going to throw cold water on his record here on AZ, you should at least be wiling to provide a citation.

Second, I did quick scan through the book and didn't see what you claimed. Just to show you how it works: what I said Grady said is on page 24. The book also has a very nice picture of Willie on page 33 and a likeness on 35. See how that works? Needless to say, I read (and still have) the book and don't have the same recollection you do. But I could be wrong and await your citation.

If you're going to claim you *heard* something like you did about a champion like Willie on the biggest pool site on the internet (forget about the fact that he traveled cross-country for many years with no control of what kind of equipment he'd encounter day after day, or the highly publicized snooker matches he played), you should be able to back it up beyond, "From what I hear mosconi wouldn't play on a table with pockets that were under 5".

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
Never heard of him, but knock yourself out.

Lou Figueroa
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That's exactly why I didn't name a name, because it wouldn't make a difference to anyone that doesn't live in Central Ohio. Where did the 526 run happen? Ohhhh, Central Ohio...... So someone of the right age that lives here, that actually played on the table in question, that is a credible person, carries no weight with you? You'd rather live on blind faith that your hero got the record on a regular pocket table. Continue on with your usual M.O. Of confrontation followed by spin, that's what you're good at....
 
The Saw said:
That's exactly why I didn't name a name, because it wouldn't make a difference to anyone that doesn't live in Central Ohio. Where did the 526 run happen? Ohhhh, Central Ohio...... So someone of the right age that lives here, that actually played on the table in question, that is a credible person, carries no weight with you? You'd rather live on blind faith that your hero got the record on a regular pocket table. Continue on with your usual M.O. Of confrontation followed by spin, that's what you're good at....
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lol. "Credible" according to... (wait for it): you.

What is this anyway? A bad episode of The Sopranos?


“Hey. You know that thing about the guy?”

“The guy?”

“Yeah, you know -- the guy who did the thing.”

“The guy who did the thing. Yeah, so?”

“Well, I got this guy, Johnny the Jacket, and he says it was never that way.”

“Never that way?”

“No. He says he checked it out and it never coulda happened that way.”

"It never coulda happened that way?"

"No. Absolutely. Acording to this guy -- couldn't a happen."

“You know this guy?”

“Yeah. I know Johnny from way back. He’s ‘good people.’”

“OK, then. But it’s on you now.”

“No problem.”


Lou Figueroa
you wish
 
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sfleinen said:
TD:

Actually, methinks you meant nap cloth instead of worsted cloth, correct?
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yeah, nap.

I suppose it's clear that I don't necessarily agree with the folks that say that tables of yesteryear were easier to play on. Both had their upsides and downsides. I bet overall, we're the luckier bunch now.

-td
 
RSB is still there Lou. You and PJ should take your negativity and your "spin" back over there.... Have a nice little playground for confrontation and negativity. Have a good time you jack.
 
The Saw said:
RSB is still there Lou. You and PJ should take your negativity and your "spin" back over there.... Have a nice little playground for confrontation and negativity. Have a good time you jack.
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Looks like you want to take free shots at Mosconi, but can't even take a little heat here and back up what you say.

Your ca-ca would never have cut it on RSB.

Lou Figueroa
my name
is not Jack :-)
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Kind of funny Willie Mosconi 526 Straight Pool Run Record Set in Springfield Illinois, in 1954 still stands.:cool:

In 2011 we got better equipment, High Tech Laminated Shafts, Super Layered Cue Tips, and Kamui Chalk but the Famous Straight Pool Run of 526 BALLS IN A ROW RECORDS Still Stands.:smile:

Anyone have a theory why some Hot Shot Pool player has not BROKEN Willie's Records in the last 57 YEARS, and maybe Run 1,000 BALLS in A ROW!:boring2:
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I thought it might be time to get this thread back on track. This just may be the first time this particular OP has posed a reasonable question, so why don't we try to provide a reasonable answer?

Cocobolo Cowboy didn't mention anything about the table size, pocket size or shelf depth, so they should not be the points of contention here. I'm sure the late, great Willie Mosconi was neither intimidated by an extra foot in table size, nor encouraged by one foot less. When you shoot as straight as Willie did, one foot, more or less, will make absolutely no difference whether or not the ball will go in the hole. Also, unless a lack of skill forces one to use the rails a lot in order to cheat the pockets for good position, the pocket openings and shelf depths are of no consequence, either. I saw Willie shoot in person, and he had no such lack of skill.

So why don't we get back to contemplating CC's original question? Why is it that the OFFICIAL record has never been broken despite now having shafts that shoot straighter, tips that hold up better, and chalk that miscues less?

Roger
 
lfigueroa said:
yeah. I thought that level of humor would amuse you.

So, you got anything else on Mosconi, or are we just going to keep exchanging pleasantries?

Lou Figueroa
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What do you have on his high run outside of 526 balls and an 8' table? Facts or what you've heard? If it's hearsay don't forget to cite the source.....
 
The Saw said:
What do you have on his high run outside of 526 balls and an 8' table? Facts or what you've heard? If it's hearsay don't forget to cite the source.....
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Welcome to the party Kirk... Lou is doing what he does best.
 
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