Better equipment, shafts, Tips, and Kamui Chalk, but the 526 RUN RECORDS Stands?

[BarneyCalip]

Do It John

It would be a great honor to break Mosconi's record and have your name in the record book for all time.
Borrow a 8 foot table with 5 inch pockets and break the record not for Money but for the love of the game.
" I just make sandwiches ". It couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

 

[Celtic]

Mosconi was the most dominant pool player to ever live. His world championship dominance for almost two decades is something this sport cannot even fathom today, and it took place in an era where Caras, Ponzi, Crane, and many other talents competed with him for what was in that era way better money then what pros can make today.

The 526 ball run was done on an 8-foot table with large pockets and there are alot of conflicting stories on how it ended. The "record" is moot. Mosconi's tournament record and world championship dominance is where his real legend stands the test of time and no pro in the world before or since has come close to matching it.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Willie in 1941 doing what he did BEST!

 

[The Chinchilla]

I don't think it's that easy. How many pros do you know that have a garage...or a video camera for that matter?

I'm obviously too tense tonight. What I would pay for a massage from ga young kim right about now.

 

[easy-e]

I'm obviously too tense tonight. What I would pay for a massage from ga young kim right about now.

I'd be right there with you!

 

[bullshot]

There would still be a few problems: Mosconi did it in public -- not locked up in a basement or garage with perfect conditions. Mosconi just walked in and did it on an unfamiliar table with folks watching and dealt with the conditions. One take.

So someone setups an eight-footer with big pockets under perfect conditions, gets used to the table, sets up a video camera and toils away at it for days, weeks, months, years until they finally get it. So what? Not the same. Not equal.

Mosconi traveled the country for years, walked into one strange pool room after another 300 days out of any given year and typically ran 100 balls or more at every stop. I saw it every time I had the opportunity to see him play and, to a man, everyone else who ever saw him play saw him do it. He was not locked up in a private room. No perfect conditions. No control of the a/c or heat, humidity, levelness of the table, music in the background, PA announcements, distractions of the crowd, endless hours to practice, or dozens and dozens of tries. He walked in, shot off two racks to warm up, and was ready to go. He'd play the local lamb a game to 125 and within the framework of *that one single game* he'd run a 100, or if he ran the game out and had not run 100 yet would turn to the crowd and ask, "Would you like to see a 100 ball run?" And then he'd do it, get in his car, and repeat that in the next town. Just think, if: every time he ran 100, he had just kept going? Who knows what the record might have ended up being.

I have watched a lot of s 14.1 over the years. And personally, none -- not a one-- of today's champs, great as they are, are his equal. None show the same level of skill, take a rack apart the way he did, or even just look as good at the table as he did. So if one day, as will inevitably happen, a player produces a video of a run breaking the record, you gotta ask the player: "Did you just walk in and do it?"

I'm betting not.

Lou Figueroa

If you look at it from that perspective how could it be possible for anyone to compare? Maybe I'm just jaded from all the "old school" player's tall tales and exaggerations. Do you mean none of today's champs would be his equal in 14.1 or as an overall player? Because i seriously doubt He could kick as well as Efren or shoot as straight as earl.

 

[mantis99]

Maybe it's because I'm Young and naive, but i just don't think Mosconi would have any chance in competition today. Sure He was a great player and a lot of people consider him to have been the best Player in history, but to say that players today aren't capable of breaking his run on the same table just doesn't make sense. I've played on tight pocket tables and tables that have buckets for pockets and the ability to play is exponentially easier on the big pockets. It's not just about the ability to pocket the balls but with bigger pockets shape becomes much easier, and it's a lot easier to set up break outs on clusters when you can cheat a pocket more.

Wow, that's a big claim to make unless you have seen him play a lot. Pool is not like foorball where the players of today are so much bigger than the players of old to the point where they wouldn't be able to compete. I think most of the greats of yesteryear could play just fine with todays pros

 

[classiccues]

If you look at it from that perspective how could it be possible for anyone to compare? Maybe I'm just jaded from all the "old school" player's tall tales and exaggerations. Do you mean none of today's champs would be his equal in 14.1 or as an overall player? Because i seriously doubt He could kick as well as Efren or shoot as straight as earl.

If you really want to see how good Mosconi and those cats of that era were. Have a pool table mechanic install the knappiest cloth he can find, then buy a set of mud balls. Get an old Rambow cue and start hitting some around. You will have a newfound appreciation for ther talents.

JV

 

[KRJ]

Hmmm

There would still be a few problems: Mosconi did it in public -- not locked up in a basement or garage with perfect conditions. Mosconi just walked in and did it on an unfamiliar table with folks watching and dealt with the conditions. One take.

So someone setups an eight-footer with big pockets under perfect conditions, gets used to the table, sets up a video camera and toils away at it for days, weeks, months, years until they finally get it. So what? Not the same. Not equal.

Mosconi traveled the country for years, walked into one strange pool room after another 300 days out of any given year and typically ran 100 balls or more at every stop. I saw it every time I had the opportunity to see him play and, to a man, everyone else who ever saw him play saw him do it. He was not locked up in a private room. No perfect conditions. No control of the a/c or heat, humidity, levelness of the table, music in the background, PA announcements, distractions of the crowd, endless hours to practice, or dozens and dozens of tries. He walked in, shot off two racks to warm up, and was ready to go. He'd play the local lamb a game to 125 and within the framework of *that one single game* he'd run a 100, or if he ran the game out and had not run 100 yet would turn to the crowd and ask, "Would you like to see a 100 ball run?" And then he'd do it, get in his car, and repeat that in the next town. Just think, if: every time he ran 100, he had just kept going? Who knows what the record might have ended up being.

I have watched a lot of s 14.1 over the years. And personally, none -- not a one-- of today's champs, great as they are, are his equal. None show the same level of skill, take a rack apart the way he did, or even just look as good at the table as he did. So if one day, as will inevitably happen, a player produces a video of a run breaking the record, you gotta ask the player: "Did you just walk in and do it?"

I'm betting not.

Lou Figueroa

Pretty good rant there Lou. I'm sure I will hate myself in the morning, but I agree with every word. And then you throw in what Classic Cue says;

"If you really want to see how good Mosconi and those cats of that era were. Have a pool table mechanic install the knappiest cloth he can find, then buy a set of mud balls. Get an old Rambow cue and start hitting some around. You will have a newfound appreciation for ther talents."

Put those two statements into play, and the argument is pretty much OVER.

And of course, maybe add in some dead cushions, no air conditioning, and a few other factors as well and you can really put someone to the test.

Amazingly, I never hear a pro saying a disparaging word against Mosconi, or belittle his 526 run, but then the great minds of AZB step up to rip apart a great player and World Champion for now appearant reason other than puff up their chest and proclaim their "idol's" of today are much better....

 

[easy-e]

but then the great minds of AZB step up to rip apart a great player and World Champion for now appearant reason other than puff up their chest and proclaim their "idol's" of today are much better....

I don't think anyone has displayed an attitude yet. Just some respectful conversation about something that can/will never be proven.

 

[cueman]

There would still be a few problems: Mosconi did it in public -- not locked up in a basement or garage with perfect conditions. Mosconi just walked in and did it on an unfamiliar table with folks watching and dealt with the conditions. One take.

So someone setups an eight-footer with big pockets under perfect conditions, gets used to the table, sets up a video camera and toils away at it for days, weeks, months, years until they finally get it. So what? Not the same. Not equal.

Mosconi traveled the country for years, walked into one strange pool room after another 300 days out of any given year and typically ran 100 balls or more at every stop. I saw it every time I had the opportunity to see him play and, to a man, everyone else who ever saw him play saw him do it. He was not locked up in a private room. No perfect conditions. No control of the a/c or heat, humidity, levelness of the table, music in the background, PA announcements, distractions of the crowd, endless hours to practice, or dozens and dozens of tries. He walked in, shot off two racks to warm up, and was ready to go. He'd play the local lamb a game to 125 and within the framework of *that one single game* he'd run a 100, or if he ran the game out and had not run 100 yet would turn to the crowd and ask, "Would you like to see a 100 ball run?" And then he'd do it, get in his car, and repeat that in the next town. Just think, if: every time he ran 100, he had just kept going? Who knows what the record might have ended up being.

I have watched a lot of s 14.1 over the years. And personally, none -- not a one-- of today's champs, great as they are, are his equal. None show the same level of skill, take a rack apart the way he did, or even just look as good at the table as he did. So if one day, as will inevitably happen, a player produces a video of a run breaking the record, you gotta ask the player: "Did you just walk in and do it?"

I'm betting not.

Lou Figueroa

This is a good post. Even if his record is broken, his record should probably still be held in high esteem because of the conditions it was done under. The type of balls he had to play with and the slower cloth and so on.

 

[Apocalypse2017]

IMO people think 14.1 is easier on a 8' table,but i bet the game really would be easier on a 10' table. The main reason is most of the time only half the table is used. Most rotation players think "smaller is easier" but they also think 14.1 is an easy game.

If someone could beat the magical 526 either in public or on video it would have been done already. John Schmidt has come close, as I'm sure other have too...

 

[bullshot]

If you really want to see how good Mosconi and those cats of that era were. Have a pool table mechanic install the knappiest cloth he can find, then buy a set of mud balls. Get an old Rambow cue and start hitting some around. You will have a newfound appreciation for ther talents.

JV

I never said i didn't appreciate or respect their talent, cause frankly it is unquestionable. I have played on slow nappy cloth with a heavy rock extensively, it's what i learned to play on, hell, i still have trouble playing on faster tables cause I'm use to stroking most of my shots and am not very good at bunting. What i wonder though is why is his 526 ball run seemingly the holy grail of pool ability?

 

[powerlineman80]

Exactly what I was thinking, plus I almost think an eight footer could be more difficult than a niner because of congestion.
Try running a three pack of eight ball on a six foot cracker box bar table.

I would agree. I play my brother a lot in 14.1 on his 8 footer and it's tougher than the 9 foot Diamond my buddy had. I think I might have ran more on the Diamond than I have my brother's table and I play the 8 a ton more. (I'm not any good either way.....lol)

I think Willie playing straight pool today would do just fine. The only thing he would have to get used to on todays equipment is the speed of the cloth and rails, and less area in the pocket that he could use to cheat for creating angles.

I agree. I think he would still dominate today in 14.1

If lack of motivation/desire is the reason, then so be it. To me, that means they can't do it. I personally was especially put off by Schimdt's comments on this subject. He pretty much said "we'd break this easily if we were playing straight pool." I have a big problem with comments like that.... either do it or keep your mouth shut. I just can't get past the aspect where if somebody does it they'd be remembered forever, yet players say "I could do it no problem," and then they proceed NOT to do it. Sorry, just rubs me wrong.

I've agreed with about every post of yours in this thread but ESPECIALLY this one. You couldn't have said it better. Schimdt could easily start playing just as any pro could but yet they haven't. Wonder why?:thumbup:

Yeah, Steve, but your bounty in those two events was for the run on Diamond tables, and I would not expect the record to be broken, if at all, on a Diamond.

I'm sure anyone would set up a table just like one similar to the one Mosconi shot on as well yet the record would still stand. Wonder why?

There would still be a few problems: Mosconi did it in public -- not locked up in a basement or garage with perfect conditions. Mosconi just walked in and did it on an unfamiliar table with folks watching and dealt with the conditions. One take.

So someone setups an eight-footer with big pockets under perfect conditions, gets used to the table, sets up a video camera and toils away at it for days, weeks, months, years until they finally get it. So what? Not the same. Not equal.

Mosconi traveled the country for years, walked into one strange pool room after another 300 days out of any given year and typically ran 100 balls or more at every stop. I saw it every time I had the opportunity to see him play and, to a man, everyone else who ever saw him play saw him do it. He was not locked up in a private room. No perfect conditions. No control of the a/c or heat, humidity, levelness of the table, music in the background, PA announcements, distractions of the crowd, endless hours to practice, or dozens and dozens of tries. He walked in, shot off two racks to warm up, and was ready to go. He'd play the local lamb a game to 125 and within the framework of *that one single game* he'd run a 100, or if he ran the game out and had not run 100 yet would turn to the crowd and ask, "Would you like to see a 100 ball run?" And then he'd do it, get in his car, and repeat that in the next town. Just think, if: every time he ran 100, he had just kept going? Who knows what the record might have ended up being.

I have watched a lot of s 14.1 over the years. And personally, none -- not a one-- of today's champs, great as they are, are his equal. None show the same level of skill, take a rack apart the way he did, or even just look as good at the table as he did. So if one day, as will inevitably happen, a player produces a video of a run breaking the record, you gotta ask the player: "Did you just walk in and do it?"

I'm betting not.

Lou Figueroa

I'm with Lou. I wished I was lucky enough to have seen Mosconi in his heyday run atleast 100 or more...

But I don't think we have seen anybody yet to match Willie's MENTAL
STAMINA and PATTERN RECOGNITION.

Willie was a genius

A lot of pros have the talent but like you said I'm not sure any "ever" will match his skills in 14.1

IMO people think 14.1 is easier on a 8' table,but i bet the game really would be easier on a 10' table. The main reason is most of the time only half the table is used. Most rotation players think "smaller is easier" but they also think 14.1 is an easy game.

If someone could beat the magical 526 either in public or on video it would have been done already. John Schmidt has come close, as I'm sure other have too...

I agree if it was done we'd know about it. Nobody has any reason to keep it a secret. Too much money to be made. I like to play and find it easier on bigger tables no matter the pocket size, and tougher on the smaller ones. I've never tried to play it on a bar box and really wouldn't want to....

 

[Lock N Load]

Willie was the best!

Kind of funny Willie Mosconi 526 Straight Pool Run Record Set in Springfield Illinois, in 1954 still stands.

In 2011 we got better equipment, High Tech Laminated Shafts, Super Layered Cue Tips, and Kamui Chalk but the Famous Straight Pool Run of 526 BALLS IN A ROW RECORDS Still Stands.:smile:

Anyone have a theory why some Hot Shot Pool player has not BROKEN Willie's Records in the last 57 YEARS, and maybe Run 1,000 BALLS in A ROW!:boring2:

Good post, CoCo.
Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[lfigueroa]

I think there have always been players that stroke as good as Willie.
...and Willie had far more opportunity to run balls...straight pool was far
more popular in his day.

But I don't think we have seen anybody yet to match Willie's MENTAL
STAMINA and PATTERN RECOGNITION.

Willie was a genius

It was never an issue of "stroke," as far as Willie was concerned. It was *control.* He controlled the cue ball so perfectly that you, literally, ran to the pool room thinking, "*That* was so easy, anyone should be able to run 100." He made it look that easy.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

And to Lou, I don't think it would be a "so what." If you ran 527+ balls with proof, I think there would be a lot of benefits and talk about it (eg weekend player says "he's the guy that broke the record").

If I started sheeting golden eggs, that would be more than "so what" and equally as likely

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

If you look at it from that perspective how could it be possible for anyone to compare? Maybe I'm just jaded from all the "old school" player's tall tales and exaggerations. Do you mean none of today's champs would be his equal in 14.1 or as an overall player? Because i seriously doubt He could kick as well as Efren or shoot as straight as earl.

oh, I think someone could compare. Maybe they just need to go to the DCC or Expo challenges and post up a few 100s -- every other time they shoot. Or play in some of the events and be as dominant. Or at least announce to everyone: "I'm going to shoot off some 14.1 tomorrow at a pool room I've never played at on an 8' table with bucket pockets and record/stream it to see what I can do."

And, I watched Efren at the 2000 14.1 event in NYC. He was *nowhere* near the 14.1 player Mosconi was. Let me repeat that: *nowhere* near.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Wow, that's a big claim to make unless you have seen him play a lot. Pool is not like foorball where the players of today are so much bigger than the players of old to the point where they wouldn't be able to compete. I think most of the greats of yesteryear could play just fine with todays pros

This is a problem. Many people opining, that never saw him shoot. If you did, you'd be a believer.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Pretty good rant there Lou. I'm sure I will hate myself in the morning, but I agree with every word. And then you throw in what Classic Cue says;

"If you really want to see how good Mosconi and those cats of that era were. Have a pool table mechanic install the knappiest cloth he can find, then buy a set of mud balls. Get an old Rambow cue and start hitting some around. You will have a newfound appreciation for ther talents."

Put those two statements into play, and the argument is pretty much OVER.

And of course, maybe add in some dead cushions, no air conditioning, and a few other factors as well and you can really put someone to the test.

Amazingly, I never hear a pro saying a disparaging word against Mosconi, or belittle his 526 run, but then the great minds of AZB step up to rip apart a great player and World Champion for now appearant reason other than puff up their chest and proclaim their "idol's" of today are much better....

It is the way of the world.

People that never saw the man in question play with their own two peepers want to say someone today is better. Doesn't matter if it's pool, baseball, basketball, table tennis.

But, if you saw, you'd believe.

Everyone wants to buy into the current champions. It is what it is.

Lou Figueroa