Better Pool on TV

H

horton129

New member
In your opinion what could we do to improve pool on TV? I know it is easy to criticise the TV comentators because WE, armchaire comentators, would all do a better job of course until we'd realize the booth has an obstructed view, it's 30 feet away from the action and we don't sound so smart anymore now that we are on TV/online trying to guess the next move of the best plyers the world has ever seen, and that the pay probably sucks too.

Since pool on tv/online I will guess is mainly viewed by pool players I think it would be great if the comentators had access to good stats (if you watch baseball they have stats for about everything - (his RBI average for games played on a tuesday when it rains is exactly .237). Since they know ahead of time which players will meet and most TV matches are repeat participation of known players in most cases why could we not add some interesting stats to the comentary? What follows is a bad exaple but you'll get the point:
- Long banks: "Comentator" Ralph has on the past 20 attempts an average of 100% success rate, see how he does here...

-Short banks: "Comentator" Mika has on the past 50 attempts an average of 100% success rate, see how he does here...

-Kicks safties: "Comentator" Alex has on the past 133 attempts an average of 100% success rate, see how he does here...

-Break from the box: "Comentator" Hillbilly has on the past 50 attempts an average of 100% success rate, see how he does here...

-long pot from the rail: "Comentator" Johny has on the past 12 attempts an average of 100% success rate, see how he does here...

-12 inches from the side, straight in: "Comentator on me" Ouch not sure what he was trying there... I think he it the point Jim...

Some types of shots repeat over and over and since not even the pros are 100% all the time you'd get a sence of their percentages and you could do different rankings:

-Who's got the most effective break in...
-Who's got the highest BRO
-Succesful safties %
-Kicking percentages %
etc...

As a viewer i watch a lot of pool to learn about pool, i think this aspect of the game is missing. ANy other ideas of what we could add to make watching pool better?
 

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For the game to be attractive to the viewer, I'd say it's GOT to speed up. Pool should be fast, thrilling and exciting, yet it's not - it's dull as dishwater most of the time. A stop clock is a must.

Sorry to say this, but as a Brit, I find US commentary to be unlistenable. I've only watched a few 9 ball matches, yet have always found myself shaking my head at how poor the commentators are - they don't seem to know the game, they miss obvious shots, they talk inane gibberish rather than have dead air etc etc. I realise much of this is cultural differences and personal preference, but from what I've seen and heard, the standard of basic commentary is awful. I'd like a commentator to capture the spirit of the match and add the odd insightful comment - is that too much to ask?
 
TheThaiger said:
For the game to be attractive to the viewer, I'd say it's GOT to speed up. Pool should be fast, thrilling and exciting, yet it's not - it's dull as dishwater most of the time. A stop clock is a must.

QUOTE]

Whoa, champ. Pocket billiards has always been a game of thought & strategy (you don't believe me, ask any snooker player). The fact that the only pool on TV is 9-ball infuriates me to the point of insanity (soft breaking, pattern runout, blah blah). Where's 1-pocket, 14.1, games that show off the true skill of a billiard player? Nowhere, because the cretins are bored to tears cuz it's "soooooo slow". I swear, I'd kill for an American channel to carry snooker coverage.
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To improve pool on tv and the streams look no further than watching pool on tv in China, Tiwain, or Korea. They show where the player is hitting the QB along with the sighting of the OB. The have many camera angles and replays. I know the streamers can't afford that many cameras and pay the people needed to run them, but at some point maybe streaming will become profitable. Johnnyt
 
for 1 they could make it LIVE it's not much fun watching a match when I already know who won the tournament
 
softshot said:
for 1 they could make it LIVE it's not much fun watching a match when I already know who won the tournament
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That wont happen, at least not on a regular basis.

If you want to know why, take a look around the various forums, we have 100 threads talking about a poker guy losing hundreds of thousands of dollars, people getting beat up, dumping of games, business in tournaments, players wanting to bet on anything from baseball to video games, etc. Oh don't forget all the pool players who keep going to jail, that's real good for the image.

People who can pump money into pool don't want to do so until there is a cleaner image and that isn't happening. Even liquor sponsors have limits on what they will attach their names to.
 
so far,
-Stats for the announcers to emphasise when the players are at the table..

-a faster game = excitement

-a shot clock

-Announcers that can do commentary and also add some color.

-more camera angles

-a game not filled with defense.. more offense.

-snooker, yes more viewers watch snooker on a weekly average than 9 ball in Europe.

there was once an idea that I really liked.. duplicate table layouts that players would have turns counting each hit until the 9 ball is made.

All the balls including the cueball, are in the exact place each game. Players play 10 table layouts and count the number of times they have to hit the cue ball to clear the table. If all 9 balls are made in 9 hits, that would be a great runout. Some players may go for making two balls at once even lowing the total to 8 hits.

After 10 table turns, Each player will have an accumlative score. Like GOLF, the lowest score get the cash. If there is a tie, there will be a tie breaker.

No defense, no safeties, just ALL OUT OFFENSE. You could have 10 players playing at ten tables like a Shot Gun start on a golf course. Scores will be recorded after each player completes a table and you will know who the leaders are during the tournament.
 
It can be challenging to do commentary when you are some distance from the table and the players (even sometimes in another room!). Often it can be very hard just to differentiate one ball from the other. The TV Balls are no better than the old set as far as this goes. IMO they never had to change them. I liked the old colors just as well, and they were more familiar to pool fans anyway.

I've often said that with the equipment available today, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to tell one ball from the other. All the cameraman (and the director) need to do is "close" on the ball(s) between shots. There is ample time to do this and show the audience exactly what ball will be shot next to clear up any confusion. This technique can also be used to show clusters of balls and hidden balls. Some directors understand this, some have to be asked on air to do a close up, and some plain don't care. That has been my experience.

Pat Fleming remains one of the best directors I've worked with because he is so familiar with the game and how to best show it to his audience. I've always said there is a rhythm and a flow to the game that a good camera crew will get in synch with. It's finding that good crew that can be so elusive. I do like working overseas because there the director really wants to hear your input. A name you will never hear is Rory Hopkins, who has been doing pool and snooker on SkySports for many years. He could give any of the ESPN directors the five ball when it comes to making a good pool show. Believe me it is the director who makes or breaks the show. Ultimately he decides what camera angles are used and how the game is broadcast. It is a pleasure to work with a good director!

I am always open to constructive criticism. I really want to do the best job of conveying what is happening in the match as I possibly can. I continually look for ways to do a better job. One thing that is important to me is the history between the two players and what got them to this point in the tournament. And of course what is on the line this match, position wise and money wise. Who will the winner face next? I do my best to watch EVERYTHING that is going on during the match, on and off the table! Sometimes little things can be very telling.

One of my proudest moments was during a WPC match in 2006, when one player ran off five straight racks to open the match, then he took a break??? I said on the air, "Why is he leaving now? He's on a roll. I would never leave when I had all the momentum going my way." He just wanted to take a cigarette break. Well that was enough to let his opponent clear his head and ultimately come back and win the match. My co-com Ted Lerner was pretty hyped by my call and said on air, "You nailed that one!"

It's moments like that when you feel like you're doing a good job. :)
 
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Speed it up, no safeties, teams of men and women so they will actually celebrate and show emotion. (watching Masconi cup is night and day difference from solo play)

Players must talk more even placing bets on shots and run outs. This sharking would be ok.

My ultimate format is not going to be revealed here totally but think decatholon with all the events being the proven crowd pleasers.
 
jay helfert said:
It can be challenging to do commentary when you are some distance from the table and the players (even sometimes in another room!). Often it can be very hard just to differentiate one ball from the other. The TV Balls are no better than the old set as far as this goes. IMO they never had to change them. I liked the old colors just as well, and they were more familiar to pool fans anyway.

I've often said that with the equipment available today, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to tell one ball from the other. All the cameraman (and the director) need to do is "close" on the ball(s) between shots. There is ample time to do this and show the audience exactly what ball will be shot next to clear up any confusion. This technique can also be used to show clusters of balls and hidden balls. Some directors understand this, some have to be asked on air to do a close up, and some plain don't care. That has been my experience.

Pat Fleming remains one of the best directors I've worked with because he is so familiar with the game and how to best show it to his audience. I've always said there is a rhythm and a flow to the game that a good camera crew will get in synch with. It's finding that good crew that can be so elusive. I do like working overseas because there the director really wants to hear your input. A name you will never hear is Rory Hopkins, who has been doing pool and snooker on SkySports for many years. He could give any of the ESPN directors the five ball when it comes to making a good pool show. Believe me it is the director who makes or breaks the show. Ultimately he decides what camera angles are used and how the game is broadcast. It is a pleasure to work with a good director!

I am always open to constructive criticism. I really want to do the best job of conveying what is happening in the match as I possibly can. I continually look for ways to do a better job. One thing that is important to me is the history between the two players and what got them to this point in the tournament. And of course what is on the line this match, position wise and money wise. Who will the winner face next? I do my best to watch EVERYTHING that is going on during the match, on and off the table! Sometimes little things can be very telling.

One of my proudest moments was during a WPC match in 2006, when one player ran off five straight racks to open the match, then he took a break??? I said on the air, "Why is he leaving now? He's on a roll. I would never leave when I had all the momentum going my way." He just wanted to take a cigarette break. Well that was enough to let his opponent clear his head and ultimately come back and win the match. My co-com Ted Lerner was pretty hyped by my call and said on air, "You nailed that one!"

It's moments like that when you feel like you're doing a good job. :)
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Jay , The coverage done on the Reno event you direct was nothing less than
fantastic . The year Atwell and Appleton went head to head and of course last year with the pearl winning the 8b after losing the first set . It
remains some of the best pool I have ever watched . Thank You and TAR
 
I have some thoughts on this, and I could be wrong, but I don't think it the game or the commentators so much as the promotion.

Golf is a prime example of a sport that is very slow to watch with commentary that, how should I put this, doesn't fire up the enthusiasm. But yet golf has a whole channel dedicated to it. I would venture to say that there are more people playing pool in the US every weekend than there are playing golf, so a I think a larger number of people have at least some interest in the game of pool.

I think that the way ESPN has treated pool like the red headed step child of the sporting world is one big problem. They butcher the footage to fit in a 1 hour time slot, they provide no advertising to let you know when a match is coming on, and most of the time if you catch it you get to see a match from 10 years ago.

The other big problem has been the organization. The NFL, the NBA, the the NHL, NASCAR, etc. They all have their act together and run their respective sport. Pool doesn't have that. Anyone can come in with a load of cash and start a new tour and make their own schedule and amendments to the WPA rules and off they go.

I don't know what all the ingredients are that are needed for the magic mix that could make pool a more popular TV sport, but I'm pretty sure that the two problems above will need to be corrected before there is any chance of it happening. We need a top level organization to standardize and schedule the sport at the pro level and we need promotion and publicity that does justice to the sport.
 
Reality TV

This may be a little bit out of the box, but why not have a Reality TV show with pool? They have every type of reality TV show out there from cooking, relationships, dancing & singing, and even washed out 80's rock stars. My wife loves all of these and honestly I can't stand many of them. That is until Top Shot came out. Being a shooting enthusiast, I like this show, even though it is done in a reality style with people being eliminated every week and the reality drama. More surprisingly, my wife likes it, yet she has no interest in shooting, nor has she ever cared to watch any of the trick shooting competitions. She likes it because of the reality TV aspect of it.

Reality TV is still big and if pool could get into it somehow, I think it could really help the sport. there are endless ways it could be run, with possibly pros coaching new comers, or amateurs against each other. Ir pros against each other in different formats. So many options are out there.
 
Are run outs really that much fun to watch?

I know this topic has been discussed over and over on this forum, and that there is no silver bullet solution. Great ideas in this thread, also. I agree that utilizing statistics to a greater extent would help. I agree that pool would benefit from better organization able to promote the sport in a unified way. And, I agree that pool doesn't need the shady image it still seems to carry.

What I think is a part of the problem are run outs. Don't get me wrong, I like watching Efren cruising through a tough table. The majority of the viewing public (if pool is ment to be targeted at a larger audience) migth actually find this boring. "The guy never a had tough shot, I could do it". You know the tune.

Personally I like watching snooker on tv. Luckily, we get most of the big tournaments live or close to live here. Quality of production aside, what I find the biggest difference is that most frames a are battle. One player runs something like sixty points, and the other guy still has a chance. The comebacks from snookers required situations, lock-up safety battles, and so forth. Of course, there are frames where one player simply runs enough points on one go. But these, I find, are not so common as in pool. And I think snooker as a televised sport benefits from this. You are watching two players go at each other every frame, not one player vs. the table. In my opinion, there is a big difference.

As I stated in the beginning, there is no silver bullet. So many different aspects to consider, but I feel that emphasizing the player vs. player battle would help pool on tv.

Just my .02 (euro) cents.

J.S.
 
jridpath said:
I have some thoughts on this, and I could be wrong, but I don't think it the game or the commentators so much as the promotion.

Golf is a prime example of a sport that is very slow to watch with commentary that, how should I put this, doesn't fire up the enthusiasm. But yet golf has a whole channel dedicated to it. I would venture to say that there are more people playing pool in the US every weekend than there are playing golf, so a I think a larger number of people have at least some interest in the game of pool.

I think that the way ESPN has treated pool like the red headed step child of the sporting world is one big problem. They butcher the footage to fit in a 1 hour time slot, they provide no advertising to let you know when a match is coming on, and most of the time if you catch it you get to see a match from 10 years ago.

The other big problem has been the organization. The NFL, the NBA, the the NHL, NASCAR, etc. They all have their act together and run their respective sport. Pool doesn't have that. Anyone can come in with a load of cash and start a new tour and make their own schedule and amendments to the WPA rules and off they go.

I don't know what all the ingredients are that are needed for the magic mix that could make pool a more popular TV sport, but I'm pretty sure that the two problems above will need to be corrected before there is any chance of it happening. We need a top level organization to standardize and schedule the sport at the pro level and we need promotion and publicity that does justice to the sport.
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BINGO! Pool in the major U.S. television markets (ESPN and Fox Sports) has long been treated as "filler" programming, running whenever there was an opening in the schedule. I also agree that by showing condensed (edited) versions of these shows, long after the matches have been played, almost assures them of garnering low ratings.
 
rburgoyne said:
This may be a little bit out of the box, but why not have a Reality TV show with pool? They have every type of reality TV show out there from cooking, relationships, dancing & singing, and even washed out 80's rock stars. My wife loves all of these and honestly I can't stand many of them. That is until Top Shot came out. Being a shooting enthusiast, I like this show, even though it is done in a reality style with people being eliminated every week and the reality drama. More surprisingly, my wife likes it, yet she has no interest in shooting, nor has she ever cared to watch any of the trick shooting competitions. She likes it because of the reality TV aspect of it.

Reality TV is still big and if pool could get into it somehow, I think it could really help the sport. there are endless ways it could be run, with possibly pros coaching new comers, or amateurs against each other. Ir pros against each other in different formats. So many options are out there.
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Such a project has been in the works for a few years now. A pilot was shot last year and shopped around without success. I think we have a very good concept but until we can find a network that is ready to gamble on pool (ha ha), there will be no more shows made. Not done with this project yet, just in a holding pattern.
 
u12armresl said:
That wont happen, at least not on a regular basis.

If you want to know why, take a look around the various forums, we have 100 threads talking about a poker guy losing hundreds of thousands of dollars, people getting beat up, dumping of games, business in tournaments, players wanting to bet on anything from baseball to video games, etc. Oh don't forget all the pool players who keep going to jail, that's real good for the image.

People who can pump money into pool don't want to do so until there is a cleaner image and that isn't happening. Even liquor sponsors have limits on what they will attach their names to.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. Except for the part about it isn't happening.

Have you seen my show? I have decided long ago to pursue my coverage of pool to be family orientated. Clean language spoken on the show, civil chat room with respectful behavior. We are blessed to have such a great group of people that watch the show.

I'm not saying I haven't slipped up on occasion. It IS our goal though.

This is what we need more of. imo.

Ray
 
Baseball is a stat-driven sport and always has been. POOL IS NOT. You can't even get everyone to agree the highest unofficial run in 14.1

I honestly wouldn't care whether Mika made 5000 banks in a row.
 
jay helfert said:
It can be challenging to do commentary when you are some distance from the table and the players (even sometimes in another room!). Often it can be very hard just to differentiate one ball from the other. The TV Balls are no better than the old set as far as this goes. IMO they never had to change them. I liked the old colors just as well, and they were more familiar to pool fans anyway.

I've often said that with the equipment available today, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to tell one ball from the other. All the cameraman (and the director) need to do is "close" on the ball(s) between shots. There is ample time to do this and show the audience exactly what ball will be shot next to clear up any confusion. This technique can also be used to show clusters of balls and hidden balls. Some directors understand this, some have to be asked on air to do a close up, and some plain don't care. That has been my experience.

Pat Fleming remains one of the best directors I've worked with because he is so familiar with the game and how to best show it to his audience. I've always said there is a rhythm and a flow to the game that a good camera crew will get in synch with. It's finding that good crew that can be so elusive. I do like working overseas because there the director really wants to hear your input. A name you will never hear is Rory Hopkins, who has been doing pool and snooker on SkySports for many years. He could give any of the ESPN directors the five ball when it comes to making a good pool show. Believe me it is the director who makes or breaks the show. Ultimately he decides what camera angles are used and how the game is broadcast. It is a pleasure to work with a good director!

I am always open to constructive criticism. I really want to do the best job of conveying what is happening in the match as I possibly can. I continually look for ways to do a better job. One thing that is important to me is the history between the two players and what got them to this point in the tournament. And of course what is on the line this match, position wise and money wise. Who will the winner face next? I do my best to watch EVERYTHING that is going on during the match, on and off the table! Sometimes little things can be very telling.

One of my proudest moments was during a WPC match in 2006, when one player ran off five straight racks to open the match, then he took a break??? I said on the air, "Why is he leaving now? He's on a roll. I would never leave when I had all the momentum going my way." He just wanted to take a cigarette break. Well that was enough to let his opponent clear his head and ultimately come back and win the match. My co-com Ted Lerner was pretty hyped by my call and said on air, "You nailed that one!"

It's moments like that when you feel like you're doing a good job. :)
Click to expand...

Great point about directors - they should be like orchestra conductors, leading the viewer through the game, shot by shot. Many have clearly never picked up a cue in their lives.
 
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