an earlier post stated that Ray owned rights to the stream per contract, but it seems to me that the owner who paid Ray to be the would own rights to the product? am i misunderstanding this somehow?
Mike
Big truck
- Thread starter craZyErica
- Start date
an earlier post stated that Ray owned rights to the stream per contract, but it seems to me that the owner who paid Ray to be the would own rights to the product? am i misunderstanding this somehow?
Mike
Just a quick note on the situation.
This event is our production, 100%. We are spending a large sum to make this happen. We are able to because of PPV.
The debate over free vs. PPV is a conversation worth having. We see both business models and have chosen the one that we feel works best to put together high quality events.
There is nothing wrong with free streaming for regional and smaller events but the free streamers will never be able to pull off events like this due to the logistics and money needed. Yes, some streamers will come in for a fee and stream the event which will likely be seen by more people due to the nature of free vs. paid. But a PPV rewards those willing to pay for a higher quality production, professional commentators, accurate scorekeeping, and multiple cameras. The promotional goals of the room and the sponsors are balanced with the needs of the players and the event. As we are both a promoter and a streamer we have a duty to protect the investment made.
It is not ethically right to come into a room where the event is being professionally streamed and to set up a stream that competes with the PPV. It would also not be ethically right to compete with a free stream provided and paid for by the room owner. Most people understand this.
Computer -
Erica is 100% responsible for her equipment being broken. She was told by Buffalo, the room owner, not to stream while we were live. She attached her equipment to my ethernet cable to circumvent the wifi password and told no one. From where we were setting up all you could see was the cable leading under the stage. When we pulled the cable to fish it from under the stage to use it Erica’s computer fell from where it was perched. We did not intentionally harm her computer and she had no right to be using the cable to connect to the internet. No permission was asked or granted to do this. We regret that her computer was damaged if it was damaged but there is no way that we are to be held responsible for this.
The Phone -
She was back streaming the TV table with Efren playing Chris Gentile when I asked her to take it down. She refused. I, with great care, removed her tripod and placed it behind the bar with the bartender insuring it was in a safe spot. She went and got it and set it back up. Buffalo came and had her remove it. The phone was not damaged in any way by us during this incident.
We are extremely busy preparing for the One Pocket streaming. It is regretful that we have to deal with this but for the record we are committed to bringing you another high quality event contested by the world’s best players.
If you love One Pocket and would like to learn a little about the game, this is your ticket. We have brought in Billy Incardona and Scott Rabon to break down the shots with multiple camera angles, scoreboards and replays.
We are also streaming 9 Ball matches with scoreboard and multiple cameras. We hope that we have your support to continue to promote this great sport.
See you on the chat.
This event is our production, 100%. We are spending a large sum to make this happen. We are able to because of PPV.
The debate over free vs. PPV is a conversation worth having. We see both business models and have chosen the one that we feel works best to put together high quality events.
There is nothing wrong with free streaming for regional and smaller events but the free streamers will never be able to pull off events like this due to the logistics and money needed. Yes, some streamers will come in for a fee and stream the event which will likely be seen by more people due to the nature of free vs. paid. But a PPV rewards those willing to pay for a higher quality production, professional commentators, accurate scorekeeping, and multiple cameras. The promotional goals of the room and the sponsors are balanced with the needs of the players and the event. As we are both a promoter and a streamer we have a duty to protect the investment made.
It is not ethically right to come into a room where the event is being professionally streamed and to set up a stream that competes with the PPV. It would also not be ethically right to compete with a free stream provided and paid for by the room owner. Most people understand this.
Computer -
Erica is 100% responsible for her equipment being broken. She was told by Buffalo, the room owner, not to stream while we were live. She attached her equipment to my ethernet cable to circumvent the wifi password and told no one. From where we were setting up all you could see was the cable leading under the stage. When we pulled the cable to fish it from under the stage to use it Erica’s computer fell from where it was perched. We did not intentionally harm her computer and she had no right to be using the cable to connect to the internet. No permission was asked or granted to do this. We regret that her computer was damaged if it was damaged but there is no way that we are to be held responsible for this.
The Phone -
She was back streaming the TV table with Efren playing Chris Gentile when I asked her to take it down. She refused. I, with great care, removed her tripod and placed it behind the bar with the bartender insuring it was in a safe spot. She went and got it and set it back up. Buffalo came and had her remove it. The phone was not damaged in any way by us during this incident.
We are extremely busy preparing for the One Pocket streaming. It is regretful that we have to deal with this but for the record we are committed to bringing you another high quality event contested by the world’s best players.
If you love One Pocket and would like to learn a little about the game, this is your ticket. We have brought in Billy Incardona and Scott Rabon to break down the shots with multiple camera angles, scoreboards and replays.
We are also streaming 9 Ball matches with scoreboard and multiple cameras. We hope that we have your support to continue to promote this great sport.
See you on the chat.
Attachments
Here is how it actually works. All drivers have certain legal obligations (called duties) to all other drivers. One of these obligations is to maintain a safe following distance. That means enough distance that you have time to stop no matter how hard the person in front of you hits their brakes or how fast they stop, and no matter what their reason for braking or stopping. And this makes sense because nobody can ever predict when they might have to brake very suddenly and so the obligation is always on the guy in the rear to maintain a safe following distance always. Because of this the driver in the rear is completely and solely at fault and the driver in front vehicle zero at fault in well over 99% of rear end accidents involving two vehicles.
There are some pretty rare exceptions. If the front driver brakes solely with the intention of purposely causing the accident then they are at fault too. It is hard to prove though and generally to prove it the front driver needs to admit to it which as you might guess pretty much never happens. They are going to lie and say a dog ran out in front of them or something similar. You may be able to prove it with a witness who was not involved in the accident but their testimony would have to be pretty compelling because the front driver is of course going to claim the witness just didn’t see the dog. But even in very rare case where you can prove the front driver intentionally tried to cause the accident the rear driver is usually considered to still be partially at fault too, often at least 50% at fault, because, you guessed it, they failed to maintain a safe following distance. How do you know it wasn’t a safe following distance? Because they hit them, that’s how. Remember, safe following distance means you can stop in time no matter how fast they stop, and no matter why they stop. If you hit them you obviously didn’t do that.
There are some very rare cases where you as the rear driver may not be considered at fault at all in a rear end collision though. One is if someone pulls right in front of you very closely and then immediately brakes. If you hadn’t had time yet to slow or drift back to create the safe following distance, and if you simply didn’t have enough time to avoid hitting them (and couldn’t have avoided it be swerving), then they would be at fault because they were the ones that essentially failed to keep the safe following distance and forced it on you so to speak. But if before it happened you had time to slow or drift back to create the safe following distance, which usually doesn’t take more than a few seconds to have enough time to do, and you just chose not to do it right away for whatever reason, then you as the rear driver are now 100% at fault again because you could had enough time to create that safe following distance but chose not to.
There is a common insurance scam called the “swoop and squat” that is done kind of like the above. Usually two vehicles working together will be in the lane beside you, and the rear one will get even with you to prevent you from being able to swerve or change lanes. Then the front one of the two will change into your lane right in front of you very close and then immediately brake hard so you rear end him. You didn’t yet have time to create the safe following distance, didn’t have time to stop and avoid him because he was too close when he slammed on the brakes, and couldn’t swerve because of the vehicle beside you. They would clearly be solely responsible if you could prove it but usually you can’t and will probably still be found solely at fault. You can’t prove they knew each other and were working together. The driver you hit is going to say he had been in front of you for 30 seconds. The scammers made sure to do it at a spot where there weren’t likely to be witnesses who could testify to how it actually happened (they generally do it with no other cars around so there aren’t witnesses). And of course the driver of the car you hit ends up having all kinds of “injuries” even though the accident happened at 20mph.
Another rare case where the driver in the rear of a rear end accident might not be at fault is if the road conditions didn’t allow it and those road conditions were due to neglect such as say a pothole that prevented you from being able to stop. It could be a case where whoever was responsible for maintaining the road is considered responsible for the accident (they knew or should have known about the pothole, knew or should have known that it could create a dangerous situation, had time to have fixed it if they had wanted to but they chose not to type of thing).
Another example is you are the middle vehicle in a three car rear end chain reaction accident, but you would have never hit the vehicle in front of you if you weren’t rear ended yourself and literally push into the guy in front of you. Sometimes this isn’t always easy to prove either and may require the guy that rear ended you acknowledges that you were completely stopped at the time, and/or the guy in the front being clear that he was only hit one time, and/or it may require that other facts can be determined depending on the particular circumstances of that accident.
Bottom line is that the rear driver in a two car rear end accident will almost always be solely and completely responsible, but there are rare exceptions.
What Ray Hansen provides is a first class stream and I hope he makes millions at it. I don't associate my business with his company any longer but I'm not knocking his product. I'm talking about his personality and how he treats people. He thinks he's a celebrity and if you invade his territory, he's this big dog or something or and thinks he can treat my employees how he wants and he is paid by me for my event, not his. Then tampers with competitors equipment is what got me. Competition and socialism is good for the sport but destruction of property is another thing.
All Erica's , Shane Winters, and all the rest of the pool player community gripes are about compensations. Obviously Shane because he's a pro bar table player and Erica has a vested interest because she is in a relationship with a professional player. But here is my take on the whole generation of revenue into the sport. I own 3 very successful businesses and wish I had more time but here is what my opinions are. Don't have Archer go to ESPN and beg for exposure time, make ESPN come to us. The professionals of the sport want to make money but don't want to step up and do what it takes. There is no actual men's pro tour which is the first step. I commend Tony Chohan for what he's doing with tournaments across the country. But what really needs to happen is an actual Tour needs to be setup across the country with a top 25-50 players list. Amateurs, League Players, Road Players and all these so called pros would have to prove themselves to be on this tour. The top elite 25-50 guys in the world would compete week in and out and BRAND pool again. Our BRAND sucks and we have a bad name in the social world. You'd have a shirt that has the tour brand on it like PGA, you'd have streamers on salaries and the PPV goes to the Tour to raise money. You have pool stick companies that want to donate free cues to auctions to get there name out. You have larger companies like Diamond and Valley trying to sponsor the event to get the name out. Then when you have something established like this, ESPN and all the others will come to you because you developed your brand name. Pool Rooms would pay to have the tour stop and be a host to there room. Pool players have no ambition today because there is nothing to play for. Everyone wants to be the best and they just call Alex and Shane the best in the world. What if we had a tour with the revenues from shirts, streaming video, equipment, pool sticks, etc all come together and make a monster? I know it is far fetched but walk around your local bar with pool tables and ask them who SVB, Alex, Earl are whoever your favorite player is if they ever heard of them. The response you gonna get from years of experience in the industry will be spider girl or black widow chick. Why because she is branded and hot and very attracting! She is a brand that's why APA is all over her and they are the top 10 companies in FORBES. Ask yourself this question, how can pool players be so broke but one of our major affiliates like APA be one of the TOP 10 countries in the world today?
All Erica's , Shane Winters, and all the rest of the pool player community gripes are about compensations. Obviously Shane because he's a pro bar table player and Erica has a vested interest because she is in a relationship with a professional player. But here is my take on the whole generation of revenue into the sport. I own 3 very successful businesses and wish I had more time but here is what my opinions are. Don't have Archer go to ESPN and beg for exposure time, make ESPN come to us. The professionals of the sport want to make money but don't want to step up and do what it takes. There is no actual men's pro tour which is the first step. I commend Tony Chohan for what he's doing with tournaments across the country. But what really needs to happen is an actual Tour needs to be setup across the country with a top 25-50 players list. Amateurs, League Players, Road Players and all these so called pros would have to prove themselves to be on this tour. The top elite 25-50 guys in the world would compete week in and out and BRAND pool again. Our BRAND sucks and we have a bad name in the social world. You'd have a shirt that has the tour brand on it like PGA, you'd have streamers on salaries and the PPV goes to the Tour to raise money. You have pool stick companies that want to donate free cues to auctions to get there name out. You have larger companies like Diamond and Valley trying to sponsor the event to get the name out. Then when you have something established like this, ESPN and all the others will come to you because you developed your brand name. Pool Rooms would pay to have the tour stop and be a host to there room. Pool players have no ambition today because there is nothing to play for. Everyone wants to be the best and they just call Alex and Shane the best in the world. What if we had a tour with the revenues from shirts, streaming video, equipment, pool sticks, etc all come together and make a monster? I know it is far fetched but walk around your local bar with pool tables and ask them who SVB, Alex, Earl are whoever your favorite player is if they ever heard of them. The response you gonna get from years of experience in the industry will be spider girl or black widow chick. Why because she is branded and hot and very attracting! She is a brand that's why APA is all over her and they are the top 10 companies in FORBES. Ask yourself this question, how can pool players be so broke but one of our major affiliates like APA be one of the TOP 10 countries in the world today?
you make a lot of good points. I don't think APA is anywhere close to the top of any Forbes list though. They are a money making machine but I don't think that their revenue is even a rounding error to the Fortune 500.
"The APA made about $11 million in revenue in 2010. Currently, the APA has franchised a little more than half of North America, but its the lone Japan franchise which represents a ray of hope for the APA to succeed in the international marketplace. "
I know how to put enough money into pool to make a viable tour. No one wants to do it though.
"The APA made about $11 million in revenue in 2010. Currently, the APA has franchised a little more than half of North America, but its the lone Japan franchise which represents a ray of hope for the APA to succeed in the international marketplace. "
I know how to put enough money into pool to make a viable tour. No one wants to do it though.
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What Forbes list are you looking to claim the APA is top 10 in the world?
Toyota is number 10 with a market value of $177 billion
Here is a list from Forbes of their top global 2000
http://www.forbes.com/global2000/list/#tab:overall
APA not found
Joey
I am convinced you and erica are lunatics!
I am done!
Big Truck pulls on his own property and cord to find in horror. Some one attached their laptop to his network cord!
Much different than taking a hammer to the laptop as first insinuated!!!
Kd
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
Thank you for all you do! Sorry you have to deal with this pathetic nonsense!
Kd
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
Theres space for both,
Erica is primarily and action streamer and I have yet to see an event where all the matches I want to see are covered, even Accu-Stats has mentioned in their advertising that there were matches that they whished they could have recorded.
So if Ray is streaming Efren, I'm watching because that's who I want to see, if Erica streams something else I'm not watching. There are plenty of free streams that I wont watch if their not showing someone I want to see.
I buy the Sunday NFL, NBA and MLB pass from direcTV so I can watch the teams I want to regardless of whos on NBC, ABC or CBS for free.
Ray cant cover it all and neither can Eric so I hope going down the road Ray chills.
There plenty of room for both of them to stream.
Erica is primarily and action streamer and I have yet to see an event where all the matches I want to see are covered, even Accu-Stats has mentioned in their advertising that there were matches that they whished they could have recorded.
So if Ray is streaming Efren, I'm watching because that's who I want to see, if Erica streams something else I'm not watching. There are plenty of free streams that I wont watch if their not showing someone I want to see.
I buy the Sunday NFL, NBA and MLB pass from direcTV so I can watch the teams I want to regardless of whos on NBC, ABC or CBS for free.
Ray cant cover it all and neither can Eric so I hope going down the road Ray chills.
There plenty of room for both of them to stream.
I apologize and said it wrong. I didn't mean Forbes, I meant to say Top 10 Franchises in the world.
And since you know everything sir, answer me this. BigTruck is on one side of the pool room and Erica is on the other of only about a 12000 sqft pool room if I'd have to guess. The equipment is not associated with each other at all. He literally walks over and pulls the cord from the ceiling on her equipment.
Getting closer. #292 on the Top500 Franchise list.
https://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/americanpoolplayersassociation/282088
CueSports....I am just busting your balls because I am bored today. LOL
Ray is a very nice guy! He has given away access codes to his streams to "Anyone" who fell on hard times and wanted to watch! He still does that! He has done charitable broadcast as fundraisers before.
He is not a bad guy unwilling to help! but, pretty hard to help someone attacking you and your business model as if he is intentionally "Robbing" pool players blind!
Future revenue streams are not for sure and very uncertain! So, how is he to compensate for things "NO ONE" can predict???
KD
Did you personally see this happen? So far I keep seeing people say stuff like this, but not one says they actually witnessed it and so it is just their speculation it seems. Erica and her boyfriend both on facebook say they did not see it, and the way they phrase it makes it sound like they don't believe there were any witnesses either because they say things like (not the exact quote but the correct sentiment) "well all I know is that I had the disagreement with Ray over the streaming and he wasn't happy and then 20 minutes later I go over to my computer and see that it is damaged so it obviously had to have been him that did it intentionally because he was angry."
People keep saying what they think Ray did and how he did it but unless I missed it it is has never been a credible first hand account (other than the one provided by Ray) but rather people giving their speculations. Which is fine, just be clear that it is your speculation.
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And the man has spoken. Thank you for sharing your side of the story. Btw I need input on an event. I'll pm you
EDIT.
Meant to quote Ray lol.
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Me and a bunch of others personally seen him walk over to the other side of the room and take her equipment down himself. Not her laptop because supposedly that was broken so she was using a phone. Me and a friend was there watching the Orcullo match and all this went down. Ray is sugar coating all the bullshit and making it sound good but it's bullshit. Erica was streaming the Orcullo match and he was streaming Richie's match. He looked over and thought she was showing the main stream table and she was still broadcasting the other match. Y'all don't have to believe me, Ray or Erica. Go to her facebook page and watch her last video and you will see him come take it down in the middle of the Whalen and Orcullo match. I was standing right there but after you watch it happen on camera, what will your excuses be then??????
Looks like he takes the tripod down and sets it behind the bar, just like bigtruck said in his post....
But what *caused* the accident is not the following too closely...it is the guy in front that hits the brakes to punish the tailgater who is actually at fault.
Unless you live in zippleboro, the laws of your state are comsistent with the above GA-RON-TEEED.
And i went to your website, but it os blocked at work. Yoi should put up a screenshot.
Unless you live in zippleboro, the laws of your state are comsistent with the above GA-RON-TEEED.
And i went to your website, but it os blocked at work. Yoi should put up a screenshot.
Exactly! What gives him the right to touch someone else's equipment? That is what the whole thread is about!!!!
Seeing as that video showed exactly how bigtruck said it happened, why are we not to believe she wasn't listening to the owner when he told her to stop like bigtruck said it happened?