Blackjack's Buzzkill

Blackjack said:
I'll stick to what I have said, and I won't flip sides when I see the momentum (or popular opinion) isn't in my favor anymore.

My opinion will not change of it either, Mr. Blackjack. This sham & disgrace of a "tour" (I have trouble calling it a tour, hence the quotes) is an insult & an absolute degradation to the sport.

It is truly sad that Mr. Trudeau has just out-and-out fooled so many of the players & how blind they are to who he really is & what he is all about. Furthermore, it is utterly insulting & disgusting to me that some people have dared to call that fraud of a "world championship tournament" a "great tribute" to the sport of pool. :mad:

In any case, the board is set. The pieces are in motion. When the music surrounding this game of a "tour" begins to end, so too will professional pool fade into complete & utter ruination. I just hope the players participating in it all have a chair when the music finally stops.
 
vader93490 said:
My opinion will not change of it either, Mr. Blackjack. This sham & disgrace of a "tour" (I have trouble calling it a tour, hence the quotes) is an insult & an absolute degradation to the sport.

It is truly sad that Mr. Trudeau has just out-and-out fooled so many of the players & how blind they are to who he really is & what he is all about. Furthermore, it is utterly insulting & disgusting to me that some people have dared to call that fraud of a "world championship tournament" a "great tribute" to the sport of pool. :mad:

In any case, the board is set. The pieces are in motion. When the music surrounding this game of a "tour" begins to end, so too will professional pool fade into complete & utter ruination. I just hope the players participating in it all have a chair when the music finally stops.

Mr. Vader
I couldn't agree with you more. Today we learned that John Barton detests you putting your morals up for fact. We have Marissa explaining why the WPA opposes the IPT (and she's dead wrong) and Bob ( a good friend of mine) making the grave error of comparing pool to poker much in the same way we were compared to Winston Cup back in the 1990's. Also Bob, the general public won't decide our fate. Those who are in command of this will decide our fate. If you have some time, I'll call you tomorrow and expain in detail the intricacies (in relation to that subject) that have not been addressed by the supporters of this "tour" in this or any other thread. In closing, may I say I have said enough about this. I've discussed all that I will discuss publicly about my opinion on this. To all those people that I asked to call me on the phone, or to send me their number so I could call them have one thing in common. They have not taken my offer to discuss this with me privately, and I'm laughing as I am writing this. My conclusion is that everybody is getting excited about the money. Everyone is concentrated on the money and nothing else. Nothing has changed. Hey Mr. Vader... here we go again!!! Now about that putter buoyancy test.....
 
vader93490 said:
To Rude Dog: You can infer what you like from my signature, that's your business as I could really care less what you think. However, if you can't add anything more useful regarding the IPT & other related items being discussed in this thread I think it would be best for you to stick to your original pledge of not posting anything more on it.
The way I see it, you've got nothing useful to say either. And I don't really care what you think of me, the I.P.T., or anything else about the game of pool. I'll post where I want, when I want, about any topic I choose, and I'll even change my mind without asking for your permission too. You and your non-playing friends that hate to see good things happen for this game and it's players, maybe you guys should raise the money and start your own tour, get your own players, tv rights, and whatever else it is that you're so sure will work to make this a better game, and do what you want and stay out of this whole I.P.T. thing. When the I.P.T. fails, as you say WILL happen, then you can say I TOLD YOU SO and watch the game self destruct. Then, and only then, will you and your friends be happy, and right, and smarter than the rest of us. Until then, mind your own business, or at least stay out of mine.
 
Blackjack said:
Mr. Vader
I couldn't agree with you more. Today we learned that John Barton detests you putting your morals up for fact.


I detest anyone who does it. Myself included. Someone's beliefs are not neccesarily the facts. Sometimes they coincide and sometimes they do not.

If you want to get up and say so and so was convicted of a crime and therefore I believe he will always act in a criminal manner that's fine. But to state such a hypothesis as FACT is preposterous.

You, of all people, ought to know better than to judge based on past actions and deeds. I refuse to think of you as a degenerate hustler although you have written that you were such a person at one point in your life.

It is perposterous to draw the conclusion that because the PBT folded under Mackey and RJR's umbrella that Kevin's organization will do so. It is furthermore ridiculous to state that because Kevin was convicted of a crime that he will definitely perpetrate crime upon the players to the detriment of the sport.

We ALL love the game. Otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about it. We genuinely wish that OUR stars got the same recognition as stars in other sports. Blessings come in strange ways. It is okay to have some skepticism but it is also not positive to attempt to discredit before someone has a chance to prove themselves.

So far, Kevin has proven that he can put on a show, give us good pool, albeit sort of one-sided, draw the media and payout worthy sums. That puts him above most of what Mackey and Camel did, in my opinon.

One thing I know for sure. His BOOK won't kill you. If you have a grave illness and you are buying his book then you are definitely searching for something and spending $39 bucks on the chance that the answer might be in there isn't the end of the world. Better than going to a Camel event and having cigarettes handed to you for free and having to fade the smoking.

Do you think Strickland would make through even one tournament if Smith and Wesson sponsored events and gave the audience loaded .32s? :-))

John
 
Dave,

*If* You're wrong, how are you going to own this?

How is it going to affect your credibility?


See, I don't get the vehemence in your whole tone with this. It looks like really, really sour grapes from here.

It is coming across as if YOU have something to lose if he succeeds.

What else is there that we, ( the community ) are not privy to?

You ask people to call you.....like whatever you have to say can't be aired in public. I don't understand that.

Really, I want to understand why you truly feel the way you do.
 
onepocketchump said:
Yes, Mike Sigel is the current IPT World 8-Ball Champion. The Carom Players also have two professional organizations where there are sometimes two different world champions.

John

Again, I had to really laugh & smile at those last two replies of yours. So you really honestly think Mike Sigel is the "2005 World 8-ball Champion"? I suppose you think that it is perfectly acceptable for Mike to only have to play the winner of this "King of the Hill" event too, huh? How silly. :rolleyes:

Here's another thing you are clueless about, John. You chose to characterize Mr. Blackjack a "degenerate hustler". Mr. Blackjack in fact was an excellent road player. If you knew anything about that, you might understand what I'm trying to say to you but as usual your lack of knowledge regarding pool-related issues rears its ugly head yet again. In fact, Mr. Blackjack would likely be the first to tell you that he was an "evil bastard".
 
onepocketchump said:
Yes, Mike Sigel is the current IPT World 8-Ball Champion. The Carom Players also have two professional organizations where there are sometimes two different world champions.

The two situations are not parallel at all, as far as I can see. In fact, the pro 3-cushion organization, the BWA, has gone belly-up. Even when they were running a competing tour, they never called their champion the "World Champion" as such, so far as I know, as the UMB was and remains the world governing body for carom. Also, for both of those organizations, it was not possible to win the championship without a significant competition.
 
Blackjack said:
Mr. Vader
I couldn't agree with you more. Today we learned that John Barton detests you putting your morals up for fact.

Yes indeed Mr. Blackjack. It seems to me that when it comes right down to it, the truth really hurts some people when it hits them dead in the face, doesn't it? ;) I suppose that explains all the egomaniac & the scary tough-guy attitudes around here too.

Blackjack said:
Now about that putter buoyancy test.....

Yes, how about that putter buoyancy test? You know what Mr. Blackjack? I'm thinking that sounds like an excellent idea. Although I must confess I've always wondered which floats better, a 2 Iron or a 3 Wood? I guess we'll find out when we go golfing.

Regarding putters, is it something involved in the construction that makes one float better than the other? Has our mutual friend given you any thoughts or insight about it by any chance? ;)

In conclusion to this entire discussion Mr. Blackjack, I must concur with you on this IPT issue. As much as you are laughing about no one coming forward to take your offer regarding phone calls & private dialogues regarding the IPT, I am adding my laughter to it as well.

Finally, I will re-iterate this quote I stated earlier regarding the IPT. I sincerely hope the participants will remember this:

vader93490 said:
In any case, the board is set. The pieces are in motion. When the music surrounding this game of a "tour" begins to end, so too will professional pool fade into complete & utter ruination. I just hope the players participating in it all have a chair when the music finally stops.

And with that, I will say farewell to this thread.
 
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vader93490 said:
It seems to me that when it comes right down to it, the truth really hurts some people when it hits them dead in the face, doesn't it? ;)
How's your face feeling right about now with the first I.P.T. tournament just around the corner? Wait, that's not a tournament though, is it? It's the beginning of the end for pool as we know it, right? Go try a buoyancy test on your heart after it sinks when your dreams of the I.P.T. failing turns into your worst nightmare.
 
onepocketchump said:
One thing I know for sure. His BOOK won't kill you. If you have a grave illness and you are buying his book then you are definitely searching for something and spending $39 bucks on the chance that the answer might be in there isn't the end of the world. Better than going to a Camel event and having cigarettes handed to you for free and having to fade the smoking.

Do you think Strickland would make through even one tournament if Smith and Wesson sponsored events and gave the audience loaded .32s? :-))

John

John,
What do you do when he gets tired of throwing snowballs in the furnace known as professional pool? Here's what you get: We end up right back where we're at with less credibility than what we started with. Most leaders within our industry understand this. Why don't you? It's got me wondering. I have no use whatsoever for anything he has in his books.

Second. Next time you, Earl and I are in the same room, say that to his face, don't say that here. Don't use this thread to start taking cheap shots at Earl's character. He doesn't deserve that, and you haven't earned the right to carry his golf clubs. You had an oportunity to say things like that to him at the event in Orlando. I didn't see you running up there and saying much to him. Why didn't you? Saving it for here?

Mr Wilson I will asnwer you questions. I know I promised I'd shut up, but you asked, and I will provide you with answers to your questions.

Mr Wilson said:
*If* You're wrong, how are you going to own this?

How is it going to affect your credibility?

As far as my credibility goes, in reference to what? I'm no longer playing at the professional level, I am a coach and an instructor, I am a marketing representative, I am active in organizing fundraisers for various charities, and I also volunteer my time and personal money to help make pool a better game on a daily basis. If I remain steadfast in what I am doing and keep strong in my convictions, my credibility will remain intact. If I thought I was wrong about the IPT in any way, I would not have started this thread. Anybody that knows me and has spoken with me on any subject will tell you that I say nothing without a purpose. I also make it a habit to know what I am talking about. If I am wrong about this I will still be standing here and you can throw rocks and garbage at me if you'd like. I promise you that I will be man enough to stand there and take it. I don't think that's likely to happen, but you can hold me to that statement. Give this time to play itself out.. maybe a year or two.. let the usual personalities get involved and screw it all up for everybody, and then come back and we'll assess the damage. I'll even buy you lunch. Deal?


Mr Wilson said:
See, I don't get the vehemence in your whole tone with this. It looks like really, really sour grapes from here.

It is coming across as if YOU have something to lose if he succeeds

Sour grapes? About what? I am not alone in my assessment of the IPT. You act as if I am alone in my opinon - thats not true. You can view Marissa's statement of the WPA's view of the IPT as having substance if you choose to, but I know better. I have spoken with people in that organization as well as the IBF about this subject. They share my view that this will not last as long many people think it will. Hopefully we are wrong, for the player's sake. My advice to any player (and Ive spoken to several) is to grab as much of these purses as you possibly can while its there to grab. Make sure he pays you in cash. Spend or invest it wisely. Most of them will piss it away as quick as they got it. We all know that. Let the games begin.

If this affects me in any way, it shows that I have wasted my time in my efforts over the past 18 months as I tried to get the billiards industry to start adequately supporting professional pool. Once again, we have failed to develop the trust of our own industry. This won't help. If this does anything it erases the work that I and many others have done. If this IPT does not work out, the industry will not support professional pool - AT ALL. Why should they? That's been their attitude towards men's professional pool since Mackey signed the deal with RJ Reynolds. It has been my mission to mend those fences and to do whatever I can do to generate cohesiveness between the industry leaders, the pro, and semi pro level tours, and the players. I don't get paid a dime for doing that from anybody - and I have done a lot of work - many people in the industry know that - some of the people on this forum have seen me in action.

I have always said that pool has no mass appeal because our sport is "take take take" and there is very little "give give give". Mr Trudeau can impress me and win me over by ensuring that pool players will be required to work within the communities that we enter and hold our events - and to use our newfound riches to positively impact those communities. That is the model that I have been presenting tirelessly for a very long time. We need to make a positive impact. Why do I do this? It goes back to a promise I made to Cisero Murphy several years ago. I will make a difference. And I will do so in a dignified manner. Sour grapes? Not really. There are many places to make a difference besides the billiards industry - and yes, I am looking elsewhere to donate my skills, my knowledge, and my passion. Those close to me know that I have not kept that as a secret for the past few months. The IPT has very little to do with that decision. Does this mean I am walking away from pool. Yes. Am I bummed about that? No. I'm ready to move on. I have done all that I can do up to this point and hopefully I have inspired someone to step up and take over in my place. It is the right thing for me to do at this point in my life (in regards to my physical problems).



Mr Wilson said:
What else is there that we, ( the community ) are not privy to?

If I can be honest.... I have lived the saga which I have described throughout the 8 pages of dialogue generated so far in this thread. I lived through PPPA, the PBA, the PBT, the MPBT, the PCA, the UPA, and other short lived alphabet soup tours. I think I know what I'm talking about. I am a very perceptive person. I developed that 6th sense while spending many years as a road warrior. The players that do not develop that 6th sense don't last very long out there. I was out there longer than most. I didn't stay out there and not learn how to read situations for what they truly are. This is how I was able to predict the downfall of the MPBT years before it actually happened. Im not psychic, just very perceptive, and I carefully view situations and the characters that are in them. Its just common sense.

I'm not a person that needs a lot of money to be happy. So don't get the idea that I'm bummed that I can't compete for these big purses of money. I'd much rather see money go where it is needed, not where it is wanted. What you are sensing Mr. Wilson is my passion and my love for the game of pool. My friends will tell you that I have used my love for this game positively to wash away my reputation as that "evil bastard" that Vader referred to. I think I'm succeeding in that effort. Whatever the outcome of the IPT, pool will always remain a great game - with or without the big money - with or without me.
 
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Blackjack said:
Second. Next time you, Earl and I are in the same room, say that to his face, don't say that here. Don't use this thread to start taking cheap shots at Earl's character. He doesn't deserve that, and you haven't earned the right to carry his golf clubs. You had an oportunity to say things like that to him at the event in Orlando. I didn't see you running up there and saying much to him. Why didn't you? Saving it for here?

David, I have spoken to Earl on numerous occasions about the current state of affairs as it pertains to pool, and his feelings are very much in align with John Barton's. My assessment of his feelings are that the "sport" has abandoned its players. I think Earl is right on the money [pun intended]. The current "governing body of professional pool" has existed for two seasons. As with any young organization, it did experience a rocky start. The biggest stumbling block, for lack of a better word, is that the members do not seem to have any say-so into the organization as a whole, and there is no transparency, IMHO.

[My opinion is] when you see employees of pool organizations earning six-figure annual salaries and then hold a once-a-year invitational tournament with a $15,000 first-place prize, it doesn't seem to make any sense. The rich get richer and enjoy the majority share of the American pool pie, and the players themselves are competing for the crumbs.

Blackjack said:
...My advice to any player (and Ive spoken to several) is to grab as much of these purses as you possibly can while its there to grab. Make sure he pays you in cash. Spend or invest it wisely. Most of them will piss it away as quick as they got it. We all know that. Let the games begin.
David, why in the world would you prejudge pool players in such a derogatory manner, "piss it away as quick as they got it"? You must realize that there are some veteran players who are struggling to make ends meet. Even though they hold numerous championship titles which span over decades, they do not earn a decent income. About 4 years ago, I spoke to the wife of a Hall of Famer who told me that they were experiencing a very difficult time financially, even though her husband is a household name in the game/sport.

Rather than predict all of the BAD things that can happen, maybe it's time to think about what GOOD can come out of this. If the IPT tour is successful, maybe the players will be afforded the opportunity to receive benefits such as health insurance. With these kinds of payouts, the players will be afforded opportunities that will benefit them individually instead of the other way around. The history speaks for itself.

Blackjack said:
If I can be honest.... I have lived the saga which I have described throughout the 8 pages of dialogue generated so far in this thread. I lived through PPPA, the PBA, the PBT, the MPBT, the PCA, the UPA, and other short lived alphabet soup tours....I'm not psychic, just very perceptive, and I carefully view situations and the characters that are in them. Its just common sense.

Well, I have to chuckle at the "alphabet soup tours" comment. That did tickle my funny bone. At least you still have your sense of humor, David. I know that you are very passionate about the game/sport. As one who has suffered the consequences of the above-referenced Alphabet Soup tours, I understand your skepticism. We are in a new era, and the game/sport will benefit immensely from the infusion of PROFESSIONAL EXPERTISE and capital that the IPT is going to generate.

Pool players at the helms of organizational entities hasn't worked in the past, and in the case of pool-related industry members, they seem to look out for pool-related industry members.

Blackjack said:
Whatever the outcome of the IPT, pool will always remain a great game - with or without the big money - with or without me.

I'd rather think of it WITH you than WITHOUT you. Hopefully, in the next few months, your skepticism will transform into optimism. Neither of us can predict the future, but at least give the IPT a chance to blossom. :)

And BTW, David, I asked you to PM me your phone number several days ago, as I had misplaced it, and you did not do so. Maybe my post got lost in the masses of IPT posts and you missed it, but I can't call you if I don't have your number. :p

JAM
 
David,

Thank you for the reply.

I'm sorry I badgered you the way I did.

Lot's of us are keenly aware of your passion, on what seems to be everything from A-Z.

Passion is a great thing. It is people with that passion who helps the rest of us through our slumps and hopefully, we'll be able to help you through yours.


I know I speak for lots of people when I say, we don't want you to shut up, or walk away from pool.

You know, I didn't listen to probably the majority of stuff I was warned about by the wisest people in my life ( father, grandmother ) but that certainly doesn't dimenish my love and respect for them, even if they feel that they are not being respected.

My Grandmother, whenever I would insist on doing something MY way, would take a tack of "I guess I should just die, you don't need me" or "I'll just shut up now".....

She had plenty of them.

Please don't be like that.

PLEASE stick around. All of your experience and knowledge and love of the game is very important to us. ( even if we don't take your advice )

You are Loved, respected and cared about, even if the perspective may feel otherwise.

I promise.
 
Blackjack,
Comparing Don Mackey and Kevin is not good at all. Don did not have the cash. This man has the cash. So what if he goes away after a year or two. Pool would have had a good year or two. Camel was not a good match for pool because they were not allowed to use television. His products can advertise on television and he knows how to use television. The UPA can't even fill a tournament chart right now at most events. He has a waiting list of back-up players several times as long as the full chart list for every event. Don Mackey had talk, but little cash. Kevin has talk, but also has plenty of cash. So talk walks and cash walks the talk. Let's give the guy a chance and see how long he is willing to let his cash walk the talk. Maybe he will keep it as his pet project for life. I am willing to lose money on pet projects at times, provided I can afford it. How about you?
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
OK, I'll ask it straight out: How will "unity" make anything better? I don't get it.

Jeff Livingston
 
JAM said:
David, I have spoken to Earl on numerous occasions about the current state of affairs as it pertains to pool, and his feelings are very much in align with John Barton's. My assessment of his feelings are that the "sport" has abandoned its players. I think Earl is right on the money [pun intended]. The current "governing body of professional pool" has existed for two seasons. As with any young organization, it did experience a rocky start. The biggest stumbling block, for lack of a better word, is that the members do not seem to have any say-so into the organization as a whole, and there is no transparency, IMHO.

[My opinion is] when you see employees of pool organizations earning six-figure annual salaries and then hold a once-a-year invitational tournament with a $15,000 first-place prize, it doesn't seem to make any sense. The rich get richer and enjoy the majority share of the American pool pie, and the players themselves are competing for the crumbs.

In talking with these people, there opinion is that WE (the professional players) ostracized ourselves from the industry. This goes goes back to the 1980's when men's professional pool broke away from the BCA. As a player, I know I had nothing to do with that situation. Players have paid the price for the decisions of leaders that did not put our priorities first. You and I have both been around long enough to realize that in the end, players pay for the sins of those that lead the charge. Your opinon of this one that is not only valid, it is dead on the money. That is what I have been trying to change with my efforts and in my travels. I fail to see (past the money) where this will be much different after the excitement fades away.

JAM said:
David, why in the world would you prejudge pool players in such a derogatory manner, "piss it away as quick as they got it"? You must realize that there are some veteran players who are struggling to make ends meet. Even though they hold numerous championship titles which span over decades, they do not earn a decent income. About 4 years ago, I spoke to the wife of a Hall of Famer who told me that they were experiencing a very difficult time financially, even though her husband is a household name in the game/sport.

I'm one of those veteran players that has struggled. Its been no picnic for anybody. I'm not prejudging, I am honestly stating a keen observation. I've talked to people that are in worse situations than the couple you described - and I know of whom you are speaking. It's a horrible mess. This will help them immensely and I know that, and I am happy for them. I'm happy for Keith. I'm happy for everyone that will benefit financially from this adventure - including Mike Sigel. I will not ignore the fact that some players (I used the word most, I think it applies) will piss it away. I didn't mention names, but I'm sure that anyone that reads this (If they think long and hard enough) can place a few a players of their own choosing in that category. I know I made you smile again because you know some of the people that I am talking about.


JAM said:
Rather than predict all of the BAD things that can happen, maybe it's time to think about what GOOD can come out of this. If the IPT tour is successful, maybe the players will be afforded the opportunity to receive benefits such as health insurance. With these kinds of payouts, the players will be afforded opportunities that will benefit them individually instead of the other way around. The history speaks for itself.

Okay. Lots of good can come of this. Short term. He has committed himself to two years. He has committed $15 million to this venture, not $450 million. That $15 million is what he is investing to get this off the ground. I have read their website, and I have read the comments made by Deno. For two years he has committed himself to getting this off the ground with his own money. Very commendable, very generous thing to do for our sport given our reputation in the business community at this point in time. Some players (not most - not all) will benefit financially from this in ways that they had never imagined. Lives will change, hopefully this can last.

Now... at the end of two years he will reevaluate the tour to see if it is a worthwhile venture. For it to be a worthwhile investment, that $15 million that he is investing has to show a profitable return. He needs to be making a dollar for every dollar that's being spent (at the very least). If not, he will not show a profit and this venture will be deemed a failure by anyone with common sense. Where does that leave us when and IF that happens? We'll be out in the cold again. What I am suggesting, is that some of us organize and start something that is designed to protect us from that. It is a possibility that at the end of 2 years he will bail. If we are able to nail down and secure outside sponsoring from other corporations, we will be passed around like a foster child - and we have no control because we never asked for it nor did we ever try to get it. Who is representing the players? Who is looking out for them? Don't say the William Morris Agency - they don't care anymore about pool than Larry Kiger and Wayne Robertson did (that crack marketing team from RJ Reynolds who were once heralded as saviors of our sport.) It's not going to be Kevin and it can't be Kevin. There is no representation for the players. You and I discussed that at length several months ago in a phone conversation. We're biting at the bait again. That's my chief concern here.


JAM said:
Well, I have to chuckle at the "alphabet soup tours" comment. That did tickle my funny bone. At least you still have your sense of humor, David. I know that you are very passionate about the game/sport. As one who has suffered the consequences of the above-referenced Alphabet Soup tours, I understand your skepticism. We are in a new era, and the game/sport will benefit immensely from the infusion of PROFESSIONAL EXPERTISE and capital that the IPT is going to generate.

Pool players at the helms of organizational entities hasn't worked in the past, and in the case of pool-related industry members, they seem to look out for pool-related industry members.

This is why I love you. Well said. You know exactly what I am talking about. We're both laughing, but its really not funny. It's embarrasing and we both know that. The industry is just as stubborn in their stance as the tours and the players.

JAM said:
I'd rather think of it WITH you than WITHOUT you. Hopefully, in the next few months, your skepticism will transform into optimism. Neither of us can predict the future, but at least give the IPT a chance to blossom. :)

And BTW, David, I asked you to PM me your phone number several days ago, as I had misplaced it, and you did not do so. Maybe my post got lost in the masses of IPT posts and you missed it, but I can't call you if I don't have your number. :p

JAM

My decision to move away from the game of pool was made long before this IPT situation was announced. It is due to my health, and it is also due to my frustration with the situation within the entire sport. I believe my time, energy, and skills could be better served in another capacity away from pool. I'd be cheating myself if I continued my efforts in the billiard world. I'll still be in sports marketing - just not with pool. I will no longer be coaching, or teaching the game of pool. I'm ok with that. This is a positive step for me. As far as my skepticism goes, it stems from looking at this from all angles. We cannot say where we will be in 5 years. With the current IPT model we cannot project that far into the future. To me, that makes this a short term investment.

You and I have talked at length at the lack of loyalty that exists within pool. That has also had a lot to do with the decision I have made to move on. If the sport wants to ever succeed, they must realize that we must remain true to oursleves. We have to learn how not to make bad business deals. We have to learn to compromise (which has been brought up in this thread). The players must learn how to protect themselves. The powers that be - need to learn that the player's representation must be respected, cooperated with - and above all else - it MUST EXIST. The industry needs to learn that pool can be appealing to the masses with the help of the professional game. They also need to learn that if they don't work with the pro tour, the pro tour has no choice but to seek outside industry funding. When that happens, we are allowing non-industry to market our sport in a way that we have no control over - and we must react to whatever image they decide to market us with. When that happens, we are not in control of our own destiny. Until those who matter realize that, we will continue to be abused as a sport. We will continue to be abused as players. We will continue to be a sport with no direction. IPT won't change that one bit.

My phone number is in my profile, and it is also on page 1 of this thread in the first post. I will call you later this evening. It would be nice to touch base with you and discuss other issues besides this. (LOL)
 
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cueman said:
Blackjack,
Comparing Don Mackey and Kevin is not good at all. Don did not have the cash. This man has the cash. So what if he goes away after a year or two. Pool would have had a good year or two. Camel was not a good match for pool because they were not allowed to use television. His products can advertise on television and he knows how to use television. The UPA can't even fill a tournament chart right now at most events. He has a waiting list of back-up players several times as long as the full chart list for every event. Don Mackey had talk, but little cash. Kevin has talk, but also has plenty of cash. So talk walks and cash walks the talk. Let's give the guy a chance and see how long he is willing to let his cash walk the talk. Maybe he will keep it as his pet project for life. I am willing to lose money on pet projects at times, provided I can afford it. How about you?
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

Chris

Great post, btw. No - I am not willing to go down with any more ships with professional pool. If business people such as yourself within our industry recognized those things about Don Mackey... and here it comes and this goes for everybody...

Where were the business people in our industry the day pro pool died? - cuemakers - table manufacturers - etc etc - when the professional players needed funding for added money in events to keep pool afloat? Where were they?

Now I like I said... I lived this. I've been in the trenches with this and you know I know the answer to that. The industry collectively sat back and laughed when the MPBT went down in flames. Just like they should have. Okay? Its out there. The big mass production cue companies such as McDermott, did the same thing. So don't feel bad, and don't think I think any less of the industry or you - IF you did that. We deserved to sit there as people pointed their fingers at us and laughed their asses off. We deserved every bit of it. I do resent the fact that all of a sudden - everybody realizes (in hindsight) that Camel was a bad deal. That was not what I was hearing when I stood up in protest to that in 1995. I'll let you know that I dug myself a hole with my opposition to that. It caused me to lose friends, money, and respect from those within this sport. Some can even say that to shut me up I was blackballed. Forced away. I stood my ground and didn't budge. I'll do the same with this situation.

Pet project? These are people's lives we are talking about. How is this going to affect my friend Danny Harriman? Less than six months ago I was having trouble getting him paid less than $3000 for money that was owed to him years ago. There was nothing to protect Danny at all and that is why that situation happened. We could have all got together and got Danny that money because whether or not you know this, he really needed it. I remember people referring to Danny as a crybaby. Danny was a victim of the lack of representaion that our players have suffered at the hands of the tours and the industry. Nobody would step up to get Danny paid. Nobody. Go back and look at those threads. That's the reality that the players face. Here's another reality. Danny Harriman, one of the greatest, most talented players in the world, will not be playing in the IPT. It would have been a kind gesture (this goes out to you Mr. Andrews) given what Danny had been through, to have his name at the top of that list. Six months ago we couldn't get anybody to agree on getting Danny paid less than $3000. Now we're going to be expected to deal with millions of dollars? Think about that. If Mr. Trudeau has plenty of cash, invest some of it into starting an organization that represents the players. Thats where it needs to go. Get the right people to represent the players. That would be a step in the right direction.

Walk the talk? Many people have heard me talk about a charity event that I want to put together in Memphis, Tennessee to benefit St. Jude's. The plan is to have the players entertain the children - and we also have a tournament and we will be raising money that will be donated to the cause. This will be an opportunity for our industry to put our hearts in the right place and as a result generate positive publicity for our sport. This will include players from men and womens professional pool - entities that are separate and moving in two completely different directions. To show that I am not vindictive about my position towarsd the IPT, I challenge Deno, Mr. Trudeau, or Mike to contact me to make this event a reality. No, we can't pay your players a dime for attending this. If they ask to be paid, we don't want them there. We want players that have their hearts in the right place. This is to raise money and to make an impact in the lives of children that are facing their own mortality. As it stands right now, this event will not happen. We need tables donated, set up, taken down, we need players willing to show up and participate. We need cooperation between tours, between sponsors, between players. Give me a call to discuss this. I am more than willing to do my part to help you guys out in any way that I can. I don't think I'll hear anything from anybody except Shari Stauch regarding this event. That's reality. I hope I'm wrong. This is an opportunity for them to walk the talk.
 
Blackjack said:
Chris

Great post, btw. No - I am not willing to go down with any more ships with professional pool. If business people such as yourself within our industry recognized those things about Don Mackey... and here it comes and this goes for everybody...

Where were the business people in our industry the day pro pool died? - cuemakers - table manufacturers - etc etc - when the professional players needed funding for added money in events to keep pool afloat? Where were they?

Now I like I said... I lived this. I've been in the trenches with this and you know I know the answer to that. The industry collectively sat back and laughed when the MPBT went down in flames. Just like they should have. Okay? Its out there. The big mass production cue companies such as McDermott, did the same thing. So don't feel bad, and don't think I think any less of the industry or you - IF you did that. We deserved to sit there as people pointed their fingers at us and laughed their asses off. We deserved every bit of it. I do resent the fact that all of a sudden - everybody realizes (in hindsight) that Camel was a bad deal. That was not what I was hearing when I stood up in protest to that in 1995. I'll let you know that I dug myself a hole with my opposition to that. It caused me to lose friends, money, and respect from those within this sport. Some can even say that to shut me up I was blackballed. Forced away. I stood my ground and didn't budge. I'll do the same with this situation.

Pet project? These are people's lives we are talking about. How is this going to affect my friend Danny Harriman? Less than six months ago I was having trouble getting him paid less than $3000 for money that was owed to him years ago. There was nothing to protect Danny at all and that is why that situation happened. We could have all got together and got Danny that money because whether or not you know this, he really needed it. I remember people referring to Danny as a crybaby. Danny was a victim of the lack of representaion that our players have suffered at the hands of the tours and the industry. Nobody would step up to get Danny paid. Nobody. Go back and look at those threads. That's the reality that the players face. Here's another reality. Danny Harriman, one of the greatest, most talented players in the world, will not be playing in the IPT. It would have been a kind gesture (this goes out to you Mr. Andrews) given what Danny had been through, to have his name at the top of that list. Six months ago we couldn't get anybody to agree on getting Danny paid less than $3000. Now we're going to be expected to deal with millions of dollars? Think about that. If Mr. Trudeau has plenty of cash, invest some of it into starting an organization that represents the players. Thats where it needs to go. Get the right people to represent the players. That would be a step in the right direction.

Walk the talk? Many people have heard me talk about a charity event that I want to put together in Memphis, Tennessee to benefit St. Jude's. The plan is to have the players entertain the children - and we also have a tournament and we will be raising money that will be donated to the cause. This will be an opportunity for our industry to put our hearts in the right place and as a result generate positive publicity for our sport. This will include players from men and womens professional pool - entities that are separate and moving in two completely different directions. To show that I am not vindictive about my position towarsd the IPT, I challenge Deno, Mr. Trudeau, or Mike to contact me to make this event a reality. No, we can't pay your players a dime for attending this. If they ask to be paid, we don't want them there. We want players that have their hearts in the right place. This is to raise money and to make an impact in the lives of children that are facing their own mortality. As it stands right now, this event will not happen. We need tables donated, set up, taken down, we need players willing to show up and participate. We need cooperation between tours, between sponsors, between players. Give me a call to discuss this. I am more than willing to do my part to help you guys out in any way that I can. I don't think I'll hear anything from anybody except Shari Stauch regarding this event. That's reality. I hope I'm wrong. This is an opportunity for them to walk the talk.
Hi,
You have very good points. The one I take exception with is your comment about where was everyone the day pool died. I don't feel pool has ever died. Pool has had it's ups and downs in the almost 40 years I have been playing. But POOL NEVER DIED. It has struggled to maintain popularity, but I think it will still be aorund long after Kevin and Don gone provided the Lord tarries. Professional pool is divided. It was divided in Mackey's day. It has always been divided. Just because Kevin jumps in with his tour does not mean we won't still have the US Open, Valley Forge, South East Tour, Viking Tour, Joss Tour and on and on. They are limiting their fields so the excitement they produce should trickle down to the other tours. I just hope Kevin will do what is best for pool and use some of the regional tours stops as qualifiers for a few spots in his events. This would benefit everyone. The smaller tours are struggling and that would give incentive for more people to play in them. I do appreciate the fact you really care about pool. It jsut sounds like you are discouraged and tired. Maybe you need to put your energy into something else for a while and then come back to pool and maybe the joy pool once had for you can return. I am in the business end of it and sometimes it bacomes a chore. I deal with pool players and major egos and it gets discouraging. I have felt like walking away many times but keep sticking it out. I really do understand how frustrating it can be.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
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