Bobby Pickle & Johnny Archer-May 30

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
uwate said:
First game only?
Ok, I like to gamble hehe...whaddya wanna do?

after can we bet on who wins the coin toss and which way the next car leaving the pool room will turn? :D

BTW I am not against taking Pickle but I think someone needs to set a line here. What do you all think is the line? Pickle -150 maybe?

My limited experience is that when making lines, they usually do it by games. For example, if there is a race to 10, the line on one player may be that he doesn't win 8 games to the other player's 10 games.

Since this is an ahead set, I do not know what is customary.

I think in order to make an educated wager, though, one would need to know more particulars about the match.

Let's do a little recap. The games will occur on a bar table in Pickle's home court. Pickle may have a slight advantage here against Archer if it is on his home table. Familiarity with the equipment is huge. A few years ago, Santos had just won the UPA's World Summit of Pool in New York City. Two weeks later, he competed in the Skins Billiard Championship on an Olhausen table, and he did not have as great a performance. Equipment familiarity is an advantage to any player.

Will there be a time clock imposed, or may a player take as long as they desire between shots? Earl Strickland is known for his fast pace during competition. When he won the 1988 World Open championship, it was an event which featured a momentous final confrontation, "the great Earl 'The Pearl' Strickland and Mike 'Captain Hook' Sigel", and spectators eagerly fought for front-row seats to witness the battle. A 45-second shot clock was used to monitor each shot because the tournament was being recorded for broadcast for a seven-week series. At the conclusion, Sigel commented he could feel the pressure of being clocked. Strickland, on the other hand, said they "could have made it only 30 seconds between shots, and it wouldn't have mattered."

And again, if there is a neutral racker, this could enter into the fray as far as making a line.

Just some food for thought!

JAM
 

Grady

Pro Player
If I had said the things about Johhny's racking that was posted here, the nuts would've been all over me. I guess it's OK if it isn't a pro saying it?
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Grady said:
If I had said the things about Johhny's racking that was posted here, the nuts would've been all over me. I guess it's OK if it isn't a pro saying it?

I remember speaking to Buddy Hall at the Carolinas Open in Goldsboro, North Carolina, several years ago.

In the winner-rack format of this event, there were some matches in which the pool player racked his own balls and then proceeded to make the exact same ball in the exact same hole each and every time. One player ran a 7-pack at that event. Was it good pool playing with shot-making skills? Did he rack the balls perfect, or did he rig the rack?

It was Buddy Hall's opinion at that time that a good format would be to have the loser break instead of the winner. Though it seems like this may be an odd format, it does have some validity with the current problem of rack rigging.

It is no secret who the best rack riggers are among pool players who compete on a frequent basis. This is the MAJOR problem with the game of 9-ball.

9-ball is not only a game of luck, but the racking problems associated with it don't seem to get addressed. Some people feel that winner racking is the best solution, and there are others who feel the loser racking is a good format.

Can you imagine bowlers being allowed to rack their pins for tournament competition? Rigging racks to me is like playing poker with a marked deck of cards. It is cheating, and the BEST player may not win because he shoots straight. He wins because he knows how the rack the balls with cracks in it to allow the same ball to drop in the same exact pocket each and every time.

At the U.S. Open one year, they were giving out $500 for anybody who made the 9-ball on the break on the TV table. The Sardo rack was being used. I do not know if the Sardo rack helps to prevent rack rigging, but it sure as heck is a lot better than allowing pool players to rack balls for themselves or their opponents with cracks in the formation. JMHO, FWIW.

JAM
 

uwate

daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
Yeah duh i meant +150. Grady, there are ALOT of threads where Archer's ability at racking is mentioned. I thought it was common knowledge. Maybe Corey and Joe Tucker might know more about the rack than Archer, I dunno.

JAM I tossed out the money line since its 10 aheads they are doing.

Grady you are a good handicapper, what do you think the line is on this match?
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
uwate said:
Yeah duh i meant +150. Grady, there are ALOT of threads where Archer's ability at racking is mentioned. I thought it was common knowledge. Maybe Corey and Joe Tucker might know more about the rack than Archer, I dunno.

IMHO, Corey is more of a break mechanic and not rack mechanic. BIG difference. He has perfected his break for a variety of games and equipment.

uwate said:
JAM I tossed out the money line since its 10 aheads they are doing.

Until you know more about the rules of the match-up, making a line is difficult. Me personally, I think Pickle has a HUGE advantage playing on his home table, which is a bar box. Pickle is a great bar table shooter.

I have seen Johnny Archer compete in a variety of tournament competitions, and he is, in fact, a determined player with intense concentration during his matches. He can take the heat and may not feel the pressure as much as others, which is a bonus for him.

However, having said that, my better half told me last night, when we were reading this thread, that Archer is not pleasant to gamble with.

JAM
 

corvette1340

www.EpawnMarket.com
Silver Member
Grady said:
If I had said the things about Johhny's racking that was posted here, the nuts would've been all over me. I guess it's OK if it isn't a pro saying it?


Always check the rack...

Emily-Felt-Up.jpg
 

derekdisco

We woulda won state!
Silver Member
Enough of this, Im going to set my own line, and see who takes what. . The amount of times Johnny picks at the table, under or over seven hundred and fifty.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Edited, repeated on next page of thread
 
Last edited:

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
Okay, I will

4:3 Archer. Normally, I would have said about 8:5, but playing on Pickles home turf bumps him up a notch.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JAM's Tout Sheet for Pickle versus Archer Shoot-out in Cookesville!

If there is a neutral racker in place:

Archer: $100 wager pays $180
Pickle: $100 wager pays $220

If each contender racks their own:

Archer: $100 wager pays $125
Pickle: $100 wager pays $275

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM
 

uwate

daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
JAM, if I bet 100 on both players with a neutral racker, isnt your line setup where a two way bettor cant lose money?

ex: bet 100 on archer AND 100 on pickle
Pickle wins: I lose 100 on archer and win 220. +120
Archer wins: I lose 100 on pickle and win 180. +80
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
uwate said:
JAM, if I bet 100 on both players with a neutral racker, isnt your line setup where a two way bettor cant lose money?

ex: bet 100 on archer AND 100 on pickle
Pickle wins: I lose 100 on archer and win 220. +120
Archer wins: I lose 100 on pickle and win 180. +80

Math was never my strong suit. :p

However, if you bet a C-note on both players:

Pickle wins, you receive $220. However, you expended $200. So, in essence, you make $20 profit.

Archer wins, you receive $180. However, you expended $200. So, in essence, you're stuck $20.

JAM
 

bigskyjake

you heard the man
Silver Member
JAM said:
JAM's Tout Sheet for Pickle versus Archer Shoot-out in Cookesville!

If there is a neutral racker in place:

Archer: $100 wager pays $180
Pickle: $100 wager pays $220

If each contender racks their own:

Archer: $100 wager pays $125
Pickle: $100 wager pays $275

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM





Ummmmm race: 7 ahead track: Cookesville, I'd like a 2.00 exacta box please:D :D :D
 

BazookaJoe

Destroyer of stickers
Silver Member
uwate said:
First game only?
Ok, I like to gamble hehe...whaddya wanna do?

after can we bet on who wins the coin toss and which way the next car leaving the pool room will turn? :D

BTW I am not against taking Pickle but I think someone needs to set a line here. What do you all think is the line? Pickle -150 maybe?

I know it's risky, but I'll bet Bobby drinks at least 2 beers in the first set.:D
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
rack or break mechanic?

JAM said:
IMHO, Corey is more of a break mechanic and not rack mechanic. BIG difference. He has perfected his break for a variety of games and equipment.
JAM


JAM,

I don't know about that statement. I have to admit that I was surprised to see that he was allowed to move the back of the rack(after the first three rows) backwards after using the Sardo rack at the DCC one pocket match where you rack your own balls. He may be a better break mechanic but he seems to be a blatant rack mechanic also. This was allowed in the 2005 finals. I think there would be an uproar if I tried that in the local weekly free one pocket tournament!

Hu
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
uwate said:
Yeah duh i meant +150. Grady, there are ALOT of threads where Archer's ability at racking is mentioned. I thought it was common knowledge. Maybe Corey and Joe Tucker might know more about the rack than Archer, I dunno.

JAM I tossed out the money line since its 10 aheads they are doing.

Grady you are a good handicapper, what do you think the line is on this match?

We have action at -150 ;), i knew you had it backwards, :)
 
Top