Bogus Ball..from the start

I think it's interesting that not one Pro Player has complained anything about Bonus Ball, or not getting compensated fairly.....yet there's an army of "sweaters" complaining for them. (acting almost like they represent them) Then, sooner or later someone from the "gallery" will say "The Pro players are nothing but complainers".....really? how ironic......

'The Game is the Teacher'

This forum is schizophrenic when it comes to pro players. One moment they are revered, the next they are reviled, one moment there is much concern for their well being, the next moment the pros should get jobs like the rest of us.

When I suggest that league players pay .25cts a week to fund a pro tour then it's met with derision. However it's perfectly fine if some guy plunges his life savings and the money of whatever investors they have into the funding of a pro tour. Then when the money runs out the promoter is vilified. Or it's perfectly fine if Mark Griffin takes his money and bails out a pro event where the promoter didn't pay up. But don't you dare take .25cts per week from the amateurs to fund the pros you claim to love and care for so much.

We care SO MUCH about whether they are paid or not then we complain about the price of PPVs, we complain about the entry fees, we don't support the sponsors, we don't buy the PPVs. We don't go and see the events if it's not free.

And we cry about giving up .25cts a week to insure that there will always be money to fund an ongoing professional tour.
 
Professional pool players don't even have a chance to enjoy the success,

This forum is schizophrenic when it comes to pro players. One moment they are revered, the next they are reviled, one moment there is much concern for their well being, the next moment the pros should get jobs like the rest of us.

When I suggest that league players pay .25cts a week to fund a pro tour then it's met with derision. However it's perfectly fine if some guy plunges his life savings and the money of whatever investors they have into the funding of a pro tour. Then when the money runs out the promoter is vilified. Or it's perfectly fine if Mark Griffin takes his money and bails out a pro event where the promoter didn't pay up. But don't you dare take .25cts per week from the amateurs to fund the pros you claim to love and care for so much.

We care SO MUCH about whether they are paid or not then we complain about the price of PPVs, we complain about the entry fees, we don't support the sponsors, we don't buy the PPVs. We don't go and see the events if it's not free.

And we cry about giving up .25cts a week to insure that there will always be money to fund an ongoing professional tour.

It is a fascinating study of the human condition.

People say they love success, but at the same time hate the successful. Professional pool players don't even have a chance to enjoy the compensation of success, and they're still hated for being successful.

Rodney wasn't talked about until he won the 10 Ball tournament. He played one of the toughest fields, played amazing, and won $15,000 (they may even take taxes out right away, I know they take 40% out of the international players prize money)....which would not even get him "even" for the year. Then he's criticised for one reason or the other......hmmm.....interesting, very, very interesting......

interesting.......very, very interesting.....
 
I think it's interesting that not one Pro Player has complained anything about Bonus Ball, or not getting compensated fairly.....yet there's an army of "sweaters" complaining for them. (acting almost like they represent them) Then, sooner or later someone from the "gallery" will say "The Pro players are nothing but complainers".....really? how ironic......

'The Game is the Teacher'

The reason is because the players are doing all their complaining in private. If they dare make a complaint public they risk being ostracized by the entire group.

This is reminding me a lot of the Branch Davidians.

"the playground is the teacher"

Ray
Waco,Tx
 
What is your deal with telling league players that they should be forced to pay for pros? Hell, they already get added BCA money that's inflated per entrant in their categories.

How about they collect royalties from videos? I'm sure they'd be millionaires overnight, what with all the soaring demand.. must be from that nonstop PR blitz they've always been on.

Should we make a poll asking to have that added $ put into the amateur events and give the pros a year off to think about what they want to do?
 
What is your deal with telling league players that they should be forced to pay for pros? Hell, they already get added BCA money that's inflated per entrant in their categories.

How about they collect royalties from videos? I'm sure they'd be millionaires overnight, what with all the soaring demand.. must be from that nonstop PR blitz they've always been on.

Should we make a poll asking to have that added $ put into the amateur events and give the pros a year off to think about what they want to do?

See what I mean CJ?
 
I think it's interesting that not one Pro Player has complained anything about Bonus Ball, or not getting compensated fairly.....yet there's an army of "sweaters" complaining for them. (acting almost like they represent them) Then, sooner or later someone from the "gallery" will say "The Pro players are nothing but complainers".....really? how ironic......

'The Game is the Teacher'

The pros won't say anything yet cause they hope they will get paid
I can't bel I didn't see anyone match up playing bonus ball in Vegas
Just can't bel that
Hope they pay
 
The pros won't say anything yet cause they hope they will get paid

The pros haven't been paid in about a month. The fact that they haven't complained about it demonstrates how powerless they really are. The pros are terrified that anything they say or do might put their pay in jeopardy.

The players should be thankful that the peanut gallery is speaking up on their behalf.
 
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What is your deal with telling league players that they should be forced to pay for pros? Hell, they already get added BCA money that's inflated per entrant in their categories.

How about they collect royalties from videos? I'm sure they'd be millionaires overnight, what with all the soaring demand.. must be from that nonstop PR blitz they've always been on.

Should we make a poll asking to have that added $ put into the amateur events and give the pros a year off to think about what they want to do?

I did not say you should be FORCED to pay for anything. I said that if .25cts per player were funneled into a professional tour then we would have a funded professional tour.

Let's be clear, leagues already spend the money they get from you without asking your permission as to how or what it's spent on.

I happen to feel that putting pool on TV will spur the growth of pool. And part of putting it on TV is having a funded professional tour that has no issues and which is attractive to programmers. The upsides to a funded professional tour are so many that it should be a no-brainer. Plus if the leagues owned pro pool then pro pool could be tightly integrated into the leagues among the other advantages.

But it's all a pipe dream. Pool is one big giant pile of clay that everyone takes a piece of and does whatever they want with it. Even the BCAPL changes the rules to to whatever they want regardless of the World Pool Association's rules. So if the various bodies can't even play by the same rules then why should anyone expect that they will ever work together to grow pool.
 
Rodney wasn't talked about until he won the 10 Ball tournament. He played one of the toughest fields, played amazing, and won $15,000 (they may even take taxes out right away, I know they take 40% out of the international players prize money)....which would not even get him "even" for the year. Then he's criticised for one reason or the other......hmmm.....interesting, very, very interesting......

interesting.......very, very interesting.....

..............................................
 
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I did not say you should be FORCED to pay for anything. I said that if .25cts per player were funneled into a professional tour then we would have a funded professional tour.

Let's be clear, leagues already spend the money they get from you without asking your permission as to how or what it's spent on.

I happen to feel that putting pool on TV will spur the growth of pool. And part of putting it on TV is having a funded professional tour that has no issues and which is attractive to programmers. The upsides to a funded professional tour are so many that it should be a no-brainer. Plus if the leagues owned pro pool then pro pool could be tightly integrated into the leagues among the other advantages.

But it's all a pipe dream. Pool is one big giant pile of clay that everyone takes a piece of and does whatever they want with it. Even the BCAPL changes the rules to to whatever they want regardless of the World Pool Association's rules. So if the various bodies can't even play by the same rules then why should anyone expect that they will ever work together to grow pool.

The TV spike if any would be minimal , pool experienced its best growth ever not because of TV but because of birth of Handicapped leagues mainly the APA but now there's less avenues to explore for more players
There is not a pool room that goes in that there is not a league operator there competing for those players
The problem is pool rooms are a tough business to succeed in they need a lot of square footage to operate and the dollar made per square foot in a stagnate economy is not that much ,that's not a great recipe for success

1
 
I did not say you should be FORCED to pay for anything. I said that if .25cts per player were funneled into a professional tour then we would have a funded professional tour.

Let's be clear, leagues already spend the money they get from you without asking your permission as to how or what it's spent on.

I happen to feel that putting pool on TV will spur the growth of pool. And part of putting it on TV is having a funded professional tour that has no issues and which is attractive to programmers. The upsides to a funded professional tour are so many that it should be a no-brainer. Plus if the leagues owned pro pool then pro pool could be tightly integrated into the leagues among the other advantages.

But it's all a pipe dream. Pool is one big giant pile of clay that everyone takes a piece of and does whatever they want with it. Even the BCAPL changes the rules to to whatever they want regardless of the World Pool Association's rules. So if the various bodies can't even play by the same rules then why should anyone expect that they will ever work together to grow pool.

JB,
You are exactly right about the bold red item above. Leagues are not a non-profit organization. Whatever the dues are, the costs are somewhat less than that. So, the league can announce they are adding 25 cents to the dues and anger players, or they can just take 25 cents out of the current take and provide for a pro tour. Would the leagues go broke if they did the 2nd option without anyone knowing?
 
The TV spike if any would be minimal , pool experienced its best growth ever not because of TV but because of birth of Handicapped leagues mainly the APA but now there's less avenues to explore for more players
There is not a pool room that goes in that there is not a league operator there competing for those players
The problem is pool rooms are a tough business to succeed in they need a lot of square footage to operate and the dollar made per square foot in a stagnate economy is not that much ,that's not a great recipe for success

1

How do you know that? The networks have consistently reported that pool gets good ratings. The APA consistently advertised on WPBA events so they must feel that there is some benefit to television exposure.

Who ever thought any one would watch poker on TV? But not only do people watch they still watch a lot of it and poker boomed because of it.

The best rooms welcome leagues and have many of them playing out of their rooms. In my travels I have seen rooms that had league almost every night, I have seen rooms set up exclusively for leagues, have seen rooms set up exclusively for league tournaments. In fact I know one room owner who sent the local league op on an all expense paid cruise as a token of gratitude for bringing her league to his room.

We know that TV influences people. And networks are hungry for content, especially if they don't have to pay for it. What professional pool lacks is money to produce events and to produce content.

If anyone watches Bonus Ball this is at least one thing they were trying to get right. Trying to show the players and their characters, to develop the personalities and give people pros to root for. That part at least is the right way to go.

Who is Chris Ferguson? "Jesus"

The poker players know who he is. My ex-wife knows who he is. I know who he is because I found him to interesting and my ex found him to be interesting. I can name a bunch more poker players but not all of the top guys and occassionally I will go play poker ONLY because of the World Poker Tour sparking my interest. Prior to that show I had ZERO interest in playing poker. And I am certain that there are millions like me who got turned onto poker through the World Poker Tour broadcasts and subsequent copycat shows.

The point is that no one knows what it could be because no one has done it. There was a time when pool was frequently on TV though in the 90s. But pool was booming coming off the Color of Money in 1987. So who knows if pro pool had any positive influence.

I will say this. In 2005 I went to a pub with Kelly Fisher. We were interrupted every five minutes with people wanting her autograph. So obviously the general public was indeed paying attention to the WPBA pros who were constantly on TV.
 
How do you know that? The networks have consistently reported that pool gets good ratings. The APA consistently advertised on WPBA events so they must feel that there is some benefit to television exposure.

Interesting. I spoke to ESPN years ago and they said the opposite. As far as the APA, I hope they aren't still using that cheesy porn music intro. The 70's are over.
 
What are you smoking? Take $25 out of each case you sell and make your own tour. There are few pros that do anything other than take, take, take. How much did people take Dippy off for? They should've taken that and made their own tour.
 
Interesting. I spoke to ESPN years ago and they said the opposite. As far as the APA, I hope they aren't still using that cheesy porn music intro. The 70's are over.

Last figure i heard the the WPBA was getting 180,000-220,000 viewers- down over 50% from their heyday. This was at least 5-6 yrs ago though but i doubt they have improved.

They had one show that followed A HUGE football game-Notre Dame and Michigan state or something like that for #1 where they got 1 million viewers. Those were the figures they always mentioned..."viewers as high as 1 million....blah blah"
 
Interesting. I spoke to ESPN years ago and they said the opposite. As far as the APA, I hope they aren't still using that cheesy porn music intro. The 70's are over.

I think you are correct. From what I understand, Pool has NEVER gotten good ratings. What Pool has gotten is *consistent* ratings. I believe, Pool draws a 1.2 Nielsen or so. Basically, 1% of the total TV viewership. Thats fairly weak. The good news is that Pool draws this number against any other programming, regardless. So, if the Superbowl is on, Pool will still get it's 1.2%.

The other poster is talking out of his azz.


Eric
 
I think you are correct. From what I understand, Pool has NEVER gotten good ratings. What Pool has gotten is *consistent* ratings. I believe, Pool draws a 1.2 Nielsen or so. Basically, 1% of the total TV viewership. Thats fairly weak. The good news is that Pool draws this number against any other programming, regardless. So, if the Superbowl is on, Pool will still get it's 1.2%.

The other poster is talking out of his azz.


Eric

If pool drew a 1.2, ESPN would be airing billiards events on a regular basis. For the past several years, pool has averaged a rating of around 0.2. The highest Nielsen number I've seen in the time I've worked in this business (about 9 years) was 0.64 that happened during the 2006 EnjoyPool.com 9 Ball Championships and even back then, the benchmark was a 0.2.

http://www.bca.affiniscape.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=73

(Edited to add the BCA press release link)
 
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I think you are correct. From what I understand, Pool has NEVER gotten good ratings. What Pool has gotten is *consistent* ratings. I believe, Pool draws a 1.2 Nielsen or so. Basically, 1% of the total TV viewership. Thats fairly weak. The good news is that Pool draws this number against any other programming, regardless. So, if the Superbowl is on, Pool will still get it's 1.2%.

The other poster is talking out of his azz.


Eric

Well if I still had my old magazines I would find the quotes. Anyway it doesn't matter because nothing is going to change.

Maybe you can have your wall street contacts save pool. After all you are a big deal on Wall Street aren't you?
 
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