Bonus Ball

Trust me, there is no way in hell the WPBL can be compared to the IPT.

If I could have had 24 hrs with KT before he blew 12 million, I could have saved him a fortune! Then again, KT's era was before me and computers really. I just know that Larry won't be losing 12 million. Larry is not paying pipe dreams prize funds to the players, like the IPT. He is paying them enough to have a nice addition to what they win during the year. Some players can't play because we have to have commitment. Those that like to take their chances abroad at tournaments overseas will not be playing full time, but hopefully they will as spares or maybe as regulars next season.

This league is not a huge pay day for these players. Yes, after all the smoke clears, it is a two million dollar deal and probably way more counting the building and all the state of the art equipment. They are playing for Larry for real reasons. They do see merit in this game! It is so much fun to play when you add in all the strategy that it brings to the table and how well the "live" audiences have enjoyed watching a pretty offensive game with substance and rules that make total sense. The better players will rise up this year and will become the professionals of the billiard industry.

They also like Larry a lot. He is a genuine nice fellow that loves billiards, as I do too. I own shares in Bonus Ball but the WPBL is his baby. Even so, I would hate to see this fail. He has approached this like a business and I have spent many months on this concept with him. It's nothing really new and copies formats like the NHL, NBA,NFL, NASCAR etc. We are trying to show case professional billiard players in a structured league. Using Bonus Ball, a game that really makes these top players stand out is not what will make this a success. We are in the entertainment business. If we put on a great show and entertain people, I believe then the WPBL will be successful! It's not about the game. The game is simply billiards.

I believe that I structured the PPV price as low as I could at $1.66 a match. There is really no reason not to watch these matches, at least some of them each week. That's if they entertain you and you like what you see. You will see we are serving you the best show we possibly can. It will get better and better each week as the points pile up! You will see someone as talented as Scott Frost making crazy shots to hold the table! You will get to see if your favorite team is going to be in the play-offs. Who will win the scoring title the first season? You will also see rivals, just like other sports! This is reality! They all want to hold the championship trophy in their hand! They all think they will win it too! (just as we should expect) Now they have to prove it! Should be pretty entertaining! Good luck Larry and good luck to all the players! I have wanted to see this since I started playing pool! Go Toronto Blue Sharks!
 
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vpbb123 said:
You will see someone as talented as Scott Frost making crazy shots to hold the table!
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Yep, just like he did in a big One-Pocket tournament today when he defeated his opponent 3-0 in a mere 31 minutes! That's totally unheard of, and it was totally exciting. The livestream match in the front of the room had only a few spectators, while Scott's match in the back of the room had a large crowd around it, and he entertained them royally.

Love him or hate him, Scott Frost is a very rare talent, and he will be bringing that talent, and excitement, to Bonus Ball.

Go Phoenix Flames!

Roger
 
I'm personally responsible for reinstating Earl into the league, and getting Frost on board. Love them or hate them, I'm hoping it will add excitement to the league. Worst case scenario, feel free to blame me if shit hits the fan.
 
JAM said:
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Dave Matlock getting on the Bonus Ball locomotive. :grin-square:

First and foremost, I'm happy for the pro players if they're getting a payday. If Bonus Ball takes off, it will be the change agent for pool that's long been needed.

I felt the same way when Hilton Hotels tried to create a tour for the pro players. They held two tournaments, and due to lack of interest, not only from the public, but the participation of the pro players being miniscule, they folded up like lawn chair. I think Shawn Putnam won the Pittsburgh event that had hardly any spectators and less than 40 competitors, if memory serves me right. That was the end of the Hilton Pool Tour.

Most who read this forum with any regularity are familiar with Kevin Trudeau and the International Pool Tour (IPT). Kevin had deep pockets and spared no expense to get the IPT going, giving BCA Hall of Famers who hadn't picked up a stick in decades a free gift of $30,000 just to make a cameo appearance in Orlando (December 2005). Kevin Trudeau had deep pockets, but apparently, they weren't deep enough. After approximately $3 million, I surmise, or more, he also ended the best thing that ever happened to pool in my lifetime. There was no return on investment, and the American pool culture that wasn't involved with the IPT seemed to have strong opinions how bad Kevin Trudeau was as a person, and they verbally tarred and featured him on this forum on a daily basis. This, after pouring in $3 million into pool for the pro players, trying to make something happen.

Now in 2012, we have the Bonus Ball. The only thing I have to say is that I hope Larry has deep pockets and can weather the storm. Meanwhile, those pro players who are on board the Bonus Ball locomotive today will at least earn a living doing what they do best. I wish them a long and comfortable ride. :)

And I hope Larry's pockets don't run dry. :wink:
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Jam, as I highlighted above, this is the only thing that will make Bonus Ball successful. Granted, Kevin Trudeau and the IPT were the best thing to happen to pool, but don't ever think that Kevin wasn't in it for his best interest (and that is not a bad thing btw). Successful ventures must make a profit. Trudeau wasn't in it for the interest of pool players. He wanted to create a gambling empire. He deserves everything he got for being tarred and feathered in my opinion. The guy attempted to do something great for pool, and he did. But, the fact remains that this guy is a scumbag and built the IPT on dirty money. KT is a scam artist, a convicted felon, a snake oil salesman. I'm not sure Mike Sigel wasn't or isn't the better hustler in this situation, but then again what is the perception of pool players in general? Con-Artists. We cannot escape the past it appears.

In my entire life, I hustled only once. And by hustling, I mean laying down and deceiving my opponent. I felt like a piece of shit for doing it and learned a lesson. I play(ed) for the love of the game, the competition, and the challenge. I'm not a rich man, but the money was always secondary (I'm a proud member of the 53% and I care for those who are unable, not unwilling, but unable to take care of themselves). I was a player who wanted to play players. I never took weight and seldom gave it. I don't think it is in the spirit of the game personally. I don't especially like handicapped tournaments for that matter. If I win or lose, I want it to be a fair game (something not often heard from a pool player huh?). I never wanted to say I beat Willie, the Miz, or Efren only to put an asterisk beside the win.

I hope Bonus Ball can get a footing and be financially sound. I think the game has the potential to show a lot of aggressive shot making which will thrill the fans. It is always hard to introduce something unfamiliar to the masses, but if financially successful, Bonus Ball will find their fan base.
 
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jason said:
Jam, as I highlighted above, this is the only thing that will make Bonus Ball successful. Granted, Kevin Trudeau and the IPT were the best thing to happen to pool, but don't ever think that Kevin wasn't in it for his best interest (and that is not a bad thing btw). Successful ventures must make a profit. Trudeau wasn't in it for the interest of pool players. He wanted to create a gambling empire. He deserves everything he got for being tarred and feathered in my opinion. The guy attempted to do something great for pool, and he did. But, the fact remains that this guy is a scumbag and built the IPT on dirty money.
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It's okay, though, that tournaments today are funded by so-called "dirty money" that was accumulated by taking advantage of the others, to include the poor. That's never mentioned on this forum, is it? Kevin's critics don't see this as bad.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Ho was a scam/cover story. Ho knew nothing of it.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
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There's a lot of scams going on in pool today, but nobody seems to want to highlight those for fear of -- well, I'll just leave it there. This thread isn't about the IPT, is it?

I wish Bonus Ball all the best. :)

BTW, is anybody out there owned money by the Bonus Ball folks to date?
 
JAM said:
It's okay, though, that tournaments today are funded by so-called "dirty money" that was accumulated by taking advantage of the others, to include the poor. That's never mentioned on this forum, is it? Kevin's critics don't see this as bad.
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As we know from the past, a lot of the gambling money was taken directly from drug dealers. I can't speak for professional tournaments, but I'm confident the major amateur tournaments such as the APA, VNEA, and BCA are self-funded by player dues and coin return.

The problem with pool isn't that we don't have a major sponsor. The problem is pool has little monetary value in the terms of product sales or entertainment value, therefore it doesn't support itself. Baseball and other professional sports have an entertainment value higher than pool, but they also are capable of a larger fan capacity for games. They sell perishable products like shoes, uniforms, gloves, hats, bats, etc. In pool, you can have one table for generations, and one stick for a lifetime or more.

The fact of the matter is pro-pool players do not deserve to make a high wage living like other pro sports. The money just isn't there. We as pool fans would like to see it, but if we really want it to happen, we have to support it with our money and not keep wishing for the miracle sponsor to show up. And if that miracle sponsor does ever show up, like Camel, we must not bite the hand that feeds us like Earl did when he quit in the middle of the finals.

Live streaming and pay-per-view might be the business model the will keep pool going and possibly even grow pool.
 
jason said:
As we know from the past, a lot of the gambling money was taken directly from drug dealers. I can't speak for professional tournaments, but I'm confident the major amateur tournaments such as the APA, VNEA, and BCA are self-funded by player dues and coin return.

The problem with pool isn't that we don't have a major sponsor. The problem is pool has little monetary value in the terms of product sales or entertainment value, therefore it doesn't support itself. Baseball and other professional sports have an entertainment value higher than pool, but they also are capable of a larger fan capacity for games. They sell perishable products like shoes, uniforms, gloves, hats, bats, etc. In pool, you can have one table for generations, and one stick for a lifetime or more.

The fact of the matter is pro-pool players do not deserve to make a high wage living like other pro sports. The money just isn't there. We as pool fans would like to see it, but if we really want it to happen, we have to support it with our money and not keep wishing for the miracle sponsor to show up. And if that miracle sponsor does ever show up, like Camel, we must not bite the hand that feeds us like Earl did when he quit in the middle of the finals.

Live streaming and pay-per-view might be the business model the will keep pool going and possibly even grow pool.
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Pool livestreaming and PPV is supported by a minute few pool enthusiasts who can afford to pay the fees. Most pool people in America, as evidenced by this forum, don't even want to pay a gate fee to see the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship or the pros in Vegas at their venue. And many others who do have the money to pay for the pool livestreaming and PPV don't want to waste hour after hour staring at their computer watching people play pool.

I love pool, but I find watching livestreams and PPV of pool a complete waste of my precious free time. What, are you kidding me? I'm going to work on a computer all day and then sit in front of a computer and watch two emotionless robots running racks for 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 hours at a stretch on a livestream or PPV? No, thank you. I'd buy a DVD and watch it on my own time, though, but I may be the exception rather than the rule.

I hope the Bonus Ball makes it, but based on the existing platform, the only ones laughing all the way to the bank will be the pro players until the money dries up. If you think pool livestreaming and PPV is going to support the Bonus Ball, think again.

I hope this Larry guy has deep, deep pockets and can weather the storm, because the storm may never end when it comes to pool in the United States. I hope I am wrong. :smile:
 
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JAM said:
I love pool, but I find watching livestreams and PPV of pool a complete waste of my precious free time. What, are you kidding me? I'm going to work on a computer all day and then sit in front of a computer and watch two emotionless robots running racks for 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 hours at a stretch on a livestream or PPV? No, thank you.
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I live across the pond and still buy the PPV to watch the Open live from 1am till 7am. :wink:

I really hope Bonus Ball makes it. It seems pretty neat. The promo video looks something a casual American sports fan might watch.
 
JimmyWhite said:
I live across the pond and still buy the PPV to watch the Open live from 1am till 7am. :wink:

I really hope Bonus Ball makes it. It seems pretty neat. The promo video looks something a casual American sports fan might watch.
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Good for you! I am so glad you enjoy it. :)

I work on a computer, long hours, and I just can't stand sitting in front of it for long hours when I'm not working, if you know what I mean. :embarrassed2:

It will be interesting to see how Bonus Ball unfolds down the road. :cool:
 
Who would bet on online pool? Me, you, SC5 and the other guys on the Good Action List? and why would he need to own a tour to set up an online betting op?

IMO, he was being laughed at for being such a sucker and finally saw that. He didnt want to admit he didnt do his homework and picked the gambling thing as a way to save face and exit the operation.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
He wasn't given bad info-- he was given good info, actually. The IPT had zero to do with professional pool. It had 100% to do with online gambling between matches (many didn't know that). KT was going to setup an online site where viewers could bet on matches among each other (not a sports-book, but rather personal bets among the viewers, such as the Action Room here, where the house would charge a % for money transfers).

People often think someone like Mike Sigel fed him a ton of bs about how a pro tour could fly--- and that's flat wrong. The model was online gambling all along.

Just before the Reno event, congress passed a law completely outlawing online gambling -- which later led to the Fed ousting Poker Stars, etc. When this happened, that's when KT decided to pull the plug on everything.

KT lied about Ho investing in the IPT. In fact, when I asked for a private placement memorandum for the IPT following the fallout (because I offered KT to help him raise capital), he sent me an investment document that looked like a 4-year-old typed it up (he prob did himself). Whoever would have "invested" in the IPT would have been STUNG.

Furthermore, before the start of the IPT event in Reno (KT already decided to pull the plug, I'm sure), KT made an announcement to raise the prize fund from $1.5M to $3M. Deno, myself and my partner sat in a pre-event meeting when my partner asked what their operating budget was moving forward. They had promised us a contract before the event and he slow rolled it (I wonder why). Deno then explained to us that KT doesn't NEED a budget because "that's how he rolls" and was a billionaire.

So that's that---- not bad info---- it was a online gambling scheme that fell through--- well calculated.

There you have it.

Dave
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I don't see the problem. You can play Texas Holdem on line with real money. Without gambling no one would go to the Horse Tracks or Dog Tracks. If it were Monopoly money and not real Vegas would be a dry town as would Atlantic City.

I won't guess a percentage but millions gamble on Football Games, Basketball Games, Heavy Weight fights.

A few years ago I was in Chicago on business. This was at a time that whole area was supposed to be going down because the car industry was going down. Our flight back was the following morning, 2 casinos in town. Went to one, no parking left, the other we had to go to 5th floor parking, this was on a Tuesday night.

In Florida you have many of the Hard Rock Indian owned Casinos that rake in money like water.

We however fear gambling.

To those that do gamble on say Football does it not truly make you feel like you are part of the game?

Can people get addicted to gambling? Sure, many all ready are and like drugs they will still find a fix.

If having $5 $10 or $100 makes you feel you are at the table with Archer and Strickland it makes you want to watch. If a fantastic shot is made, you feel you are part of it, easy shot missed you feel that as well.

Baseball players set new records, make millions later to find they were taking steriods but our champions can't make a couple hundred thou?

The problem is our champions make 9 ball look to easy, someone said lets throw an extra ball up, make it 10 ball. Why did they just not go to 15? More clusters, less on the pop and break and run 10 racks of 15? Not happening. Well I rambled enough about the sport I love. I however would think if you love the game you would post ways to make more people watch and get involved and less posts about failure from the past.

Might I suggest you find a newspaper from around the time of the Civil War, Pool/Billiards was front page news almost daily. It can happen again but not until the fans get more involved.
 
Hi Jam, after reading your post, I can't help but ask the folks. Who & what is gonna pay the ride for the Pros...? I'm not being nosy, I'm just concerned for the sake of the game. I'm hoping the promoters can make this a real happening. As far as the fan base going the distance... lots of people don't have a job & that is hurting America.
 
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