I do recall that this has been brought up before, but I think it's a shame that as little as pool players make, that they would have to give something up to the IRS as well....Do tournament directors withhold money back for the IRS? Or if a player wins, say, $5K, in a tournament, does he get the entire amount and deals with the IRS on his own? What about the smaller tournaments? Is there a limit or ceiling for money won in a tournament before the IRS is involved? With this factor, it seems even the Pros would be better off gambling in private....
BOO to the irs
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Hey that's a good idea. Pay taxes on winnings and lesson income then deduct expenses such as entry fees, cost of table, equipment, office and training room expenses, travel hotel, meals, car expense, self employment insurance, etc.
I think the IRS will hunt us all down for the last penny.
I think the IRS will hunt us all down for the last penny.
If you are speaking about the 1099 income of pool players, it would be interesting to see a profit-and-loss statement for the full fiscal year on the 1099 income.
One fiscal year of activity on the American tournament trail, attending two, three, and four events per month, the total expenses, consisting of lodging, travel, entry fees, and miscellaneous would amount to about $35,000. This is only for attending tournaments within the contintental United States.
JAM
One fiscal year of activity on the American tournament trail, attending two, three, and four events per month, the total expenses, consisting of lodging, travel, entry fees, and miscellaneous would amount to about $35,000. This is only for attending tournaments within the contintental United States.
JAM
I wonder if the law requires Rodney Morris to claim the 150k he won but didn't receive from the IPT. Hope he doesn't have to pay tax on that money.
I got my form from BCA to pay taxes on yesterday in the mail. 
Tennesseejoe said:
Pool players from my experience are idiots when it comes to taxes. The idea is to report as much income as you can while paying as little as you can. Paying your self employment tax, locking in SS and Med care and being a part of the system. Have good credit and at least on paper look good. They think they are beating the system but they are supposed to be part of the system. Their pool player mentality though makes them too stupid to know any better. Most could not finance a pair of sneakers without a cosigner.
I know a lot of tournaments issues 1099s to those who cash in at more than $600 for a tournament. $600 is the limit for non-employee compensation; anything above $600 paid to a non-employee has to be reported to be IRS.
Perhaps the only silver lining in this is that pool players are more eligible for deductions than your average Joe. All expenses (travel, meals, hotels) can be deducted, and if said pool player is smart they can certainly work the numbers in their favor.
Perhaps the only silver lining in this is that pool players are more eligible for deductions than your average Joe. All expenses (travel, meals, hotels) can be deducted, and if said pool player is smart they can certainly work the numbers in their favor.
Read page 9 and 10 of the pdf on tax.
http://www.sangleeinternational.com/assets/PDF/2006_Tournament_Information.pdf
I alway thought poolpalyers were like entertainers everything were non tax or a deduction.LOL
http://www.sangleeinternational.com/assets/PDF/2006_Tournament_Information.pdf
I alway thought poolpalyers were like entertainers everything were non tax or a deduction.LOL
That limit
is in relation to 'Contract Labor', not to money earned as a result of a tournament of skill. The Sang Lee document indicated that anyone not making it to the A final or B final didn't have to worry about it, and 1st through 3rd were the only places paying $10,000 or more in prize money.
StevenPWaldon said:
is in relation to 'Contract Labor', not to money earned as a result of a tournament of skill. The Sang Lee document indicated that anyone not making it to the A final or B final didn't have to worry about it, and 1st through 3rd were the only places paying $10,000 or more in prize money.
There are certainly exceptions, though I can remember specifically that the APA requires anyone who gets more than $600 in their national tournaments to provide tax info.
Snapshot9 said:
Owning two pool rooms for many years and knowing many top players who don't have a pot to piss in. You know, people come here floating on a raft without a penny in their pockets and learn how to use the system very quick. Pool players who think they are smart don't have the brains of some guy sneaking under a fence on the Texas border.JAM said:
They have been here all their lives and have nothing while for many, a lot of money has slipped through their fingers. They think they are smart and getting it over on everybody, but they are the epitome of losers.
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The IRS requires taxes to be paid on all income. Doesn't matter if it is from gambling, drugs, prostitution, legal or illegal. You can then deduct expenses. The only reason they set certain limits for filling out a 1099 is that there would be a overwhelming amount of paper work that would just create a burden for both the IRS and the population in general. Could you imagine every time you play a slot machine and you double your money. You would then have to fill out a form. Ridiculous!
Taxes are required to be withheld on any winnings that any foreigner has because they will probably skip without paying any.
I would think that a big tournament would require a license from the state they are in so they probably have to withhold taxes. In small weekly tournaments I don't think the operators have the authority, permit or whatever is required to withhold any taxes, so the winnings are the responsibility or the winner to report.
Taxes are required to be withheld on any winnings that any foreigner has because they will probably skip without paying any.
I would think that a big tournament would require a license from the state they are in so they probably have to withhold taxes. In small weekly tournaments I don't think the operators have the authority, permit or whatever is required to withhold any taxes, so the winnings are the responsibility or the winner to report.
macguy said:
I kind of figured you had no experience paying taxes as a professional pool player. Thanks for responding.
To the readers of the thread, the above-referenced post is an example of what the American pool culture thinks of professional pool players. Though posters such as this enjoy demeaning, bashing, and sucker-punching champion pool players on the Internet, blaming them for pool's demise, the truth of the matter is that here in the United States, it is posters like the above-referenced who keep pool in the gutter.
That's my story, and I'm sticking with it!
JAM
TheBook said:
Every high-profile event I have attended here on our soil in America, the foreign players who compete in the tournaments have one-third of the payouts withheld.
As one example, I remember looking at that $200,000 in cash presented to Efren Reyes at the IPT King of the Hill in Orlando, Florida, in December of 2005. The match between Mike Sigel and Efren Reyes concluded, and the spectators surrounded the TV table, checking out the cash. Cameras were flashing and there was a standing ovation for Efren as he approached the $200,000 enclosed in a clear box for all to see.
I was standing on the rail, as all good railbirds do, and saw Deno Andrews, the IPT tournament director, whisper to an IPT staff person, "Remember that we will have to take out one-third."
All players at the IPT events were required to fill out tax forms at the beginning of the events.
I also remember the look on Italian Fabio Petroni's face with the TD at Master's at the Big Apple tournament handed him his check, with one-third of the monies already taken out. The same thing happened to Sweden's Marcus Chamat.
If you ain't got a Social Security number, one-third of tournament payouts will be withheld by the tournament staff folks.
JAM
JAM said:
I can only speak from my own experience. The last pool room I owned, when I sold it I basically put a match to around $20,000 of accumulated debt from these bums who can't financially manage themselves out shoe box. They are for the most part pathetic. Even the ones who manage to get their hands on something like say a pool room usually, piss it away somehow. What do you want me to say?
Should we all just pretend they are bright because they can play a little pool? They live lives of financial failure and in many cases they do it at the expense of whoever is unlucky enough to come in contact with them. I don't keep pool players in the gutter, they have been their own worst enemies from day one and have kept themselves there.
macguy said:
The American professional players, champions, if you will, are in the gutter in your eyes.
There is another school of thought that the American professional players have achieved heights in the sport that others cannot achieve.
Thankfully, they don't have to wake up in the morning and read your posts describing them as bums in the gutter.
For you to lump all American professional players and state that they are not bright and label them as bums is a stereotype.
Soon the lot of existing American professional players will be extinct, but one thing you and folks like you can never take away from them is the fact that they are champions.
The Philippines and other countries do not have the same opinion of professional pool players as you. Your posts are nothing more than a sucker-punch written by a man who called me a "groupie," another stereotype created by you, only because I happen to have a boyfriend who is a pool player. It is a disgusting rant written by a troll who protects his identity to enable him to further demean the American champions.
You can take your prejudice and shove it where the sun don't shine. Why someone like you would even have an interest in pool, writing on this forum, leaves a big question mark.
JAM
Why should pool players be any different than everyone else? I think filing taxes is one way to prove proffesional pool as a legitimate sport as opposed to some backroom under the table thing. Hell minimum wagers have to file. I had to file and I only worked 6 weeks last year. Just my view.
Andy
Andy