Both Ways Just as Good?

C

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was playing a regular some cheap sets, one of my friends who plays about my speed was watching the match. It was hill-hill, and I had this layout:

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I chose to stop the cueball because it would leave a simple angle to get on the 9. This is what I had in mind:

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Nerves ended up getting in the way, and in my effort to stop the cueball I accidentally drew it back an inch or two, and got straight in on the 8 like this:

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The obvious out is to draw back for short side position on the 9, but I was afraid of overdrawing it again and scratching in the bottom left corner. The cueball and 8-ball were lined up so that drawing it straight back would scratch in the opposite corner. I cinched the draw shot and came up short on the 9ball (again, I was a little nervous). I missed the cut on the 9ball and lost.

My friend who was watching the match, and loves to criticize other people's decisions in pool, told me that I should have followed on the 7 ball to play shape for the 8 in the side. I acknowledged that shot before I did what I did, but I figured why move the cueball a few feet when I could just stop it and be perfect anyways. Plus to shoot the 8 in the side, the cueball would wind up on or very close to the rail. I felt that was unecessary to play it that way. The mistake I made was drawing the cueball two inches instead of stopping it, and of course coming up short on the 9. But if I did stop the cueball like I planned, it would have been perfect too. In that situation, what's the best way to play the shot? Would you have gone for the stop shot or followed a few feet to shoot the 8 in the side?
 
I'd have potted the 7 in the side, floated the cue ball forward and shot the 8 in the other side, followed forward a bit and cut the 9 in, or at least that is what I'd have tried.

Shooting stop shots that are perfect stop shots is pretty darn hard if the shot isn't a straight in shot, moving only two inches after potting the 7 isn't much, but apparently those 2 inches did you in. IMHO, it's mighty tough to really kill the cueball on an angled shot like you had on the 7. Can be done, but is probably a lower percentage way to victory than the other options.

Flex
 
I'm not a great player or anything, but I would have followed the 7 and left the cueball above the 8 and played it in the side so that the cueball could go naturally down for the 9. In my opinion, I think it's better for two reasons, one is that you wouldn't be playing short-side shape and the other is that you'd be using follow on the cue and wouldn't have to worry about over/underdrawing your cueball. In my opinion, it's always better to follow when you can 'cause it's easier to judge your speed. My 2 cents.
 
I'd guess it'd depend on the speed of the table and how comfortable you where with it.

I'm a draw man myself. In your last diagram, I wouldn't hesitate to draw the cue back with a slight left of my draw to get shape for the 9 in the opposite corner the 8 dropped in.

There's no "rule of thumb" when you play on different friction. Some tables play better with follow, then draw. Others, vica verca. Key is, recognizing.

Go with what you know works. If you loose a game from implementing it, learn from it, and move on.
 
Stop it!!!

I agree with the stop, but it depends what you are more comfortable with I guess.

By playing the stop shot, there is a natural center ball angle to the 9 as well.

If you follow you could leave the cueball short and have to go 2/3 rails or worse, leave the cueball straight in for the middle and on the rail. I don't know about you, but if its 8 all, race to 9 and you leave yourself with a cut to the 9 i would avoid it if i can.

Basically the stop shots require using a stroke with out worrying about cue ball speed and the other requires both. :)
 
I don't like drawing the cueball to get to the 9 on this one.
Plus, you are playing shape on the 8 to the farthest from the 9.
Just make sure you don't get straight on the 8 to side. If you are short, u can still go 3 rails down to the 9.
 
You did right, just made an error. When you follow you are moving the cue ball farther and crossing the angle you need to follow the eight ball shot to get on the nine. If you go too far, or short, the shot and position becomes more difficult. By doing it the way you did, you can't miss the zone for position, even if you overdraw or move forward a little.

You would have to considerably overdraw to scratch on the eight draw shot. The problem wasn't your choice, it was just that thing that makes us make some mistakes, call it nerves, or perhaps thinking too much. My 2c
 
Especially on a tight 9 footer

I would roll up to shoot the eight in the side. for one thing you can slow roll the seven and the shot on the 8 is much easier and again does'nt need to be shot as hard. The other benefit is that you can play shape from the eight to the middle of the side rail and take any scratch way out of play and finally by playing the eight that way you are coming pretty much down the line of the nine ball so you have a big margin of error. Just my opinion, but in a pressure situation on shimmed tables these things can make the difference.
 
under pressure I'd go with the gut but this you can test

You or your buddy sitting on the rail can always think you should have done it differently when the run out fails. You did what felt best at the time.

My first thought is to make the best decision you can and then live with it. However this is something you can test easily enough. Set the balls up and try to run them six times each way, alternating which way you try it.

My opinion, most people rely way too much on draw when natural follow or near natural follow would get the job done easier. However, if you have shot the draw shot hundreds of times and the follow shot cheating the pocket a little a few dozen times it is time to go to the shot you know under pressure.

Hu
 
This is just preference. My style is to play the pattern for the eight in the side. Nonetheless, the stop shot gets you on the right side of the eight, from where you must expect to run out.

I do not find any fault with your decision here.
 
I think the way you shot it was the easiest way with minimal cueball movement. Had you chosen to follow on the 7 ball, it would have been easy to come up short or get straight on the 8, or even run the cueball too far for a thin cut in the side on the 8.

The problem with the way you shot it was simply that you overdrew the cueball. Most often I see this happen when players cue too low and rely on delicate touch to control the amount of draw. Shot this way, it is very easy for the draw to get away from you.

A better way to draw the cueball a short, precise distance is come up on the cueball and use a firmer stroke. I referred to this in another post as "stun-draw." You'll have to find the spot on the cueball that works with your equipment and stroke, but for starters I'd suggest one tip width below center with a med-firm stroke. This allows you to stroke the ball, without the cueball getting out of control. It will creep back instead of rushing back. When you are nervous, this method of cueing is a way of choke-proofing the shot and position.

If you have tapes of the great straight pool players such as Rempe, Varner, Sigel and Miz, you'll see this type of shot again and again, as well as stun-stop and stun-follow.
 
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I don't see anything wrong with how you played it. You just choked that's all. Think about it, if you shoot that 8b again in practice to get shape on the 9 like you did, you probably would get out way over 50% of the time. Drawing the cb back for that 9 should not have been a big problem because you had a lot of room for error.
 
The best way to make sure you are not on the rail is to make sure you run into the rail. You ever see how pro's get shape on the nine ball when it is in the rack area. They almost always go two rails and get perfect on it everytime.

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both shots are equal,,,,therefore the best shot would have been the one you felt was good for you at the time,,,,at to commit to that shot, unequivocally.

you simply didn't execute, so don't take that as a mistake in strategy.
 
whitewolf said:
I would have followed the ball. If you don't go far enough you can play the 8 in the side and go 3 or 4 rails to the nine. If you get straight in after following you can still get down to the 9 easily. The ideal spot would to be rolling just past the 8 ball so you could make it and roll to the 9 easily. And if you go slightly too far you can still cut the 8 in the side and go down to the 9 easily. Anything with stop or draw is just insane for reasons I care not to list. Bottom line, by following you have about a 4 foot margin of error. And of course you must like going 3 or 4 rails if needed.
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I agree. :) :)
 
whitewolf said:
I would have followed the ball. If you don't go far enough you can play the 8 in the side and go 3 or 4 rails to the nine. If you get straight in after following you can still get down to the 9 easily. The ideal spot would to be rolling just past the 8 ball so you could make it and roll to the 9 easily. And if you go slightly too far you can still cut the 8 in the side and go down to the 9 easily. Anything with stop or draw is just insane for reasons I care not to list. Bottom line, by following you have about a 4 foot margin of error. And of course you must like going 3 or 4 rails if needed.
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I took all of that into account. I think this might have alot to do with how certain people play the game. For example, I've heard Nick Varner say "I like the back of the pocket in 9-ball". He isn't a big fan of rolling balls in the hole, he likes to hit them with authority. I am kind of the same way, I would rather play a pattern where I can hit balls in with authority instead of a pattern where I gotta roll the balls in. I guess whatever you are more comfortable with is the correct shot.
 
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