Break Cue, light vs heavy

Pangit

Pangit

Banned
More cue speed with the light one, more inertia with the heavy one, it's a study in physics.

I have a former playing cue (23.25 oz) and changed to one of just under 19oz, Best thing I've done pool wise. I was kinda thinking like Earl Strickland, expect I wasn't using arm weight's, I was putting it in the cue.

I'm using that twenty three and a quarter for breaking now. The first thing I noticed is "how" slow it seems, but the balls dance all over the table.
 
Sometimes I will use a heavy cue for breaking also. If I keep my break smooth and don't go hard at the break it works great.
 
I agree

Pangit said:
More cue speed with the light one, more inertia with the heavy one, it's a study in physics.

I have a former playing cue (23.25 oz) and changed to one of just under 19oz, Best thing I've done pool wise. I was kinda thinking like Earl Strickland, expect I wasn't using arm weight's, I was putting it in the cue.

I'm using that twenty three and a quarter for breaking now. The first thing I noticed is "how" slow it seems, but the balls dance all over the table.
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Pangit,

I had the same theory. force = mass x acceleration
If cue mass can be increased by x% with a corresponding reduction in speed of less than x%, force is maximized. Lab testing would be needed to prove the theory and where cue weight begins to generate a net loss in force, but it sounds logical. That's why I had Dick Neighbors make me a 23 oz custom made breaker. And does it ever do the trick!!!

Ron F
 
u could look at it like a fighter,the flyweight will throw a punch with more speed but a heavyweight will throw a punch with more power..................i prefer a 20 oz. break cue, maybe a 21 oz. ,i dont see ur arm speed by using say a 17 oz. or 18 oz generating more power than using a cue that is only 2 or 3 ounces more......JMHO
 
Pangit said:
More cue speed with the light one, more inertia with the heavy one, it's a study in physics.

I have a former playing cue (23.25 oz) and changed to one of just under 19oz, Best thing I've done pool wise. I was kinda thinking like Earl Strickland, expect I wasn't using arm weight's, I was putting it in the cue.

I'm using that twenty three and a quarter for breaking now. The first thing I noticed is "how" slow it seems, but the balls dance all over the table.
Click to expand...
FYI, I have some info on this topic here:

Enjoy,
Dave
 
I've heard that the weight of the cue stick itself isn't what matters but instead the speed of the cue ball. I myself use a predator breaker that's 18 or 18.5 oz and i find that by keeping my muscles relaxed and focusing on speed instead of power i tend to get a better break.
 
I think the term is kinetic energy .The closer you can get the cb to the ob the more power you will generate on a full hit. Matters more so than 1 or 2 ounces I believe .
 
randyg said:
Heavier than what? How much?
randyg
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Than his shooting cue, his logic is. That yes u may be able to whip a lighter cue through faster, its also harder to control all that speed. Which makes alot of sense to me. He said he uses a break cue as heavy or up to 2oz heavier than his playing cue.

Im having Adair change out my weight bolt tonight and hopefully Nicks logic holds up :)
 
A marble marble with greater mass hitting a marbel marble with less mass in a weightless vacume will not send the lighter marble faster then the heavier marbel was initially traveling. What will instead take place is the heavier marble that is traveling at speed will send the lighter marble off at the speed that the heavier marble was travelling and the heavier marble will still have some of its momentum after the collision and follow the lighter marble at a slower speed then it initially had.

The peak speed obtained by the second marble would be equal weight marbles such that the force put into the first marble is exactly transfered into the second marble so that the initial marble's motion is stopped at the point of collision. That is, assuming the initial force put into the first marble is equal.

Any weight in the cue beyond the weight of a cueball is thus not going to affect cueball speed, and the weight of the lightest of cues is still normall far beyond the weight of the cueball. A heavy cue does not increase cueball speed, and thus it does not increase breaking power.

What a heavy cue "can" do is control a persons break better then a lighter cue leading to better contact with the rack coming from a more accurate hit on the head ball and less spin on the cueball.

Light cues are harder to break with due to control, but they do give a person the chance for more acceleration leading to more cueball speed, and thus a more powerful break "IF" the cueball is hit pure and accurately.
 
Celtic said:
A marble marble with greater mass hitting a marbel marble with less mass in a weightless vacume will not send the lighter marble faster then the heavier marbel was initially traveling. What will instead take place is the heavier marble that is traveling at speed will send the lighter marble off at the speed that the heavier marble was travelling and the heavier marble will still have some of its momentum after the collision and follow the lighter marble at a slower speed then it initially had.

The peak speed obtained by the second marble would be equal weight marbles such that the force put into the first marble is exactly transfered into the second marble so that the initial marble's motion is stopped at the point of collision. That is, assuming the initial force put into the first marble is equal.

Any weight in the cue beyond the weight of a cueball is thus not going to affect cueball speed, and the weight of the lightest of cues is still normall far beyond the weight of the cueball. A heavy cue does not increase cueball speed, and thus it does not increase breaking power.

What a heavy cue "can" do is control a persons break better then a lighter cue leading to better contact with the rack coming from a more accurate hit on the head ball and less spin on the cueball.

Light cues are harder to break with due to control, but they do give a person the chance for more acceleration leading to more cueball speed, and thus a more powerful break "IF" the cueball is hit pure and accurately.
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I'd agree with this. I have a 17.5 oz break cue that I can generate a ton of speed and therefore... breakforce with but it is a b**ch to control. I'm over hitting.

So, I use my 23 oz Varney breaker and swing less hard. I control the cue ball and still get the same break essentially.

I believe that heavy cues offer more stability while lighter cues offer more "action". That isn't always what you want in a break.

JM2C

Greg
 
just in case you missed it

just for fun i built a break cue using high speed stainless steel. the entire forearm, joint collar and pin is one piece. the butt is koa with a ss buttcap. it weights 32 oz and there is no way i can get it moving fast enough to break.but it does get a lot of " what the hell " when i hand to to someone. just another fun cue. chuck
 

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DoubleD said:
False.

In fact, in a perfectly elastic collision, when the larger marble is much more massive than the smaller, the velocity of the smaller marble after impact will approach double the velocity of the larger marble.

Look up "conservation of momentum" and read about elastic collisions in 1-dimension (i.e. a straight-on hit between billiard balls).

Physics! Who knew?

dld
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This is interesting. Can someone verify with some sources if this is true?
 
DoubleD said:
http://www.splung.com/content/sid/2/page/momentum

Specifically refer to the equation: vb= ((2ma)/(ma+mb))*ua.

Where:

vb=velocity of smaller object after collision.
ma=mass of larger object.
mb=mass of smaller object.
ua=velocity of larger object previous to collision.

When ma>>mb, the equation approaches: vb=2*ua.

I brought this up in another thread recently, and it was pointed out (correctly) that it is for elastic collisions, which is not entirely accurate for a leather tipped, flexible cuestick hitting a cueball.

dld
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Talk about bringing back my college years. WOW!
 
So it still boils down to what you can control & what feels good in your hand. Right?
I'm curious as to if anyone has experimented & knows how much more speed an 18oz cue produces than a 23oz cue? Or vise versa?
If I remember I believe my breakers a 19oz'er & I rarely try & break as hard as I can. I'm thinking maybe 80%.
I find when I'm breaking good it's cause I'm hitting the rack square & I'm getting good racks to hit.
 
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