break cue weight?
- Thread starter Harlequin
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There are two different schools of thought on the subject. Without getting heavy into the physics, we start with the basic idea that your stroke arm can generate X amount of energy. Since the same amount of energy can move a lighter object more efficiently and at a faster rate than it can a heavier object, many suggest you can generate more speed with a lighter cue.
Others believe the mass of a heavier cue will impart more energy (speed) to the cue ball than a lighter cue.
My personal belief is the difference between using say an 18 ounce cue and a 21 ounce cue is minimal. Since I have decided that, for me anyway, a 19 ounce cue is the most comfortable weight for playing, I use the same weight in my break cue.
The best advice is to try a couple of different weights and see which works best for you.
Steve
Others believe the mass of a heavier cue will impart more energy (speed) to the cue ball than a lighter cue.
My personal belief is the difference between using say an 18 ounce cue and a 21 ounce cue is minimal. Since I have decided that, for me anyway, a 19 ounce cue is the most comfortable weight for playing, I use the same weight in my break cue.
The best advice is to try a couple of different weights and see which works best for you.
Steve
I would like to try some different break cues, I currently play with a 19oz. I think the idea that a lighter cue would be better.
I asked this question in another thread but did not recieve an answer so I will repost it. Since the majority of the mass is coming from your body, wouldn't the difference of 6 ounces be neglegable? P.S. I know very little about physics, so humour me if I've posted something silly.
I asked this question in another thread but did not recieve an answer so I will repost it. Since the majority of the mass is coming from your body, wouldn't the difference of 6 ounces be neglegable? P.S. I know very little about physics, so humour me if I've posted something silly.
I personally like breaking with a cue very similar in size (all aspects) to my playing cue.
Remember - with today's fast cloth you don't have to crush the balls like you did on that heavy cloth. You want a controlled break and to control the cue ball (at least in 9 ball).
I did borrow a friend's 17 oz break cue the other day and I was crushing the rack in 9 ball (for me anyhow) but I couldn't control the rock....you've got to control the rock or making 2 balls on the break but not getting a shot on the one is worthless.
Remember - with today's fast cloth you don't have to crush the balls like you did on that heavy cloth. You want a controlled break and to control the cue ball (at least in 9 ball).
I did borrow a friend's 17 oz break cue the other day and I was crushing the rack in 9 ball (for me anyhow) but I couldn't control the rock....you've got to control the rock or making 2 balls on the break but not getting a shot on the one is worthless.
If you are looking for speed on the break then a lighter cue is what you need. If you take regular 16oz hammer and then a 20 pound sledge hammer and compare how fast you can move each one, then you have the understanding of lighter is faster. To me control is the most important thing on the break and that is where the cue tip and cue weight combination becomes a personal preference.
I think and this in my opinion, but for me and what I've seen for my breaking success and most of the best breakers out there and most top players break cues say 19oz or so give a little either way...I used to play with a real stiff custom sneaky 17.1 oz before the finish I wanted to just wax it it feels wonderful with a finish it would have come out over 18
Well it was my regular player and she was like thors' hammer it felt very easy to control at least in the straightness of delivery i.e. no English the vertical axis, its all kind of a I don't think its important on the weight it should be what’s comfortable.... but there's always a but isn’t there,
Those 22-to god knows what they got them up to now I saw someone with a 27 and I tried it and have tried 25's and even the 22's a broad range an dear god I wouldn't hit a ball with those cues for the money so why on earth would I want to entrust my BREAK to it! Those super heavies are super foolish, think of coming to the table and pulling out a 10oz cue.
If there is a fight you don’t bring just a tiny razor blade, and you sure as hell don’t take a 50 cal high powered rifle hell everyone knows you need a colt 45, a 9mm something easy to handle and accurate why because over kill and under kill will do just that…. kill you...the range is 18-21 for a reason some great cues here and there shoot a little over or under but I’m sure you get my point.
I'd just hate to see the market get flooded with these monstrosities, because people buy things because they are told to or because it looks cool. I'm glad they are starting to get rid of the phenolic tip...hopefully the jump cue will disappear also and just stay on the artistic side, whatever your opinion it detracts from the built in balance of rules of the game.
A player leaves you a dead safe 2 railer and has the que 1 1/2" back dead safe and Mr. I’m a F$^&N Black Magic practitioner get out of a beautiful, perfect, there’s nothing you can do because I played it perfect safety. Its not hating its just sad to me that like in a lot of things defense gets an after thought to all that offense, one pocket players stand by me know I'm calling us to arms.
Like the king of England was told once, “there is no royal road to learning”. People spend all there lives just trying to perfect something no one ever is going to perfect and here you go this is to make the challenge not so much of a challenge anymore. That’s my two cents, keep it stashed and cash her in sometime.
GG
Well it was my regular player and she was like thors' hammer it felt very easy to control at least in the straightness of delivery i.e. no English the vertical axis, its all kind of a I don't think its important on the weight it should be what’s comfortable.... but there's always a but isn’t there,
Those 22-to god knows what they got them up to now I saw someone with a 27 and I tried it and have tried 25's and even the 22's a broad range an dear god I wouldn't hit a ball with those cues for the money so why on earth would I want to entrust my BREAK to it! Those super heavies are super foolish, think of coming to the table and pulling out a 10oz cue.
If there is a fight you don’t bring just a tiny razor blade, and you sure as hell don’t take a 50 cal high powered rifle hell everyone knows you need a colt 45, a 9mm something easy to handle and accurate why because over kill and under kill will do just that…. kill you...the range is 18-21 for a reason some great cues here and there shoot a little over or under but I’m sure you get my point.
I'd just hate to see the market get flooded with these monstrosities, because people buy things because they are told to or because it looks cool. I'm glad they are starting to get rid of the phenolic tip...hopefully the jump cue will disappear also and just stay on the artistic side, whatever your opinion it detracts from the built in balance of rules of the game.
A player leaves you a dead safe 2 railer and has the que 1 1/2" back dead safe and Mr. I’m a F$^&N Black Magic practitioner get out of a beautiful, perfect, there’s nothing you can do because I played it perfect safety. Its not hating its just sad to me that like in a lot of things defense gets an after thought to all that offense, one pocket players stand by me know I'm calling us to arms.
Like the king of England was told once, “there is no royal road to learning”. People spend all there lives just trying to perfect something no one ever is going to perfect and here you go this is to make the challenge not so much of a challenge anymore. That’s my two cents, keep it stashed and cash her in sometime.
GG
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, but which one drives the nail in faster? Sure you can swing a light cue faster. I will not argue that point. I will say that when I'm trying to develop more speed in my stroke that it gets less accurate. The heavier cue, IMO helps settle this down. Therefore I can put more speed into a heavy cue because the weight helps me stroke it true when breaking. Not sure what the top end would be, but I think ideally, I would like a 23 oz break cue. My current break cue is like 20 and that is just ok.
I do not wholly disagree with your opinion, I could see how 23oz could feel great and be reasonable for some people...I was talking apples to oranges and gaffs like 27oz because its too extreme to be viable for the application. Sure the 20lb sledge would drive the nail faster but we not working on the rail road driven a 12" spike.
It would be like using that big hammer to nail your house together wood gets beat up, a descent hammer at a comparable and comfortable weight that’s why you use a 20-24 oz as a framing hammer ,a 16 to 20oz for general duty and smaller 10-13 oz for say re-clothing and tacking a chair.
I tell you what I just finally put a table in the house and going to start building cues again. It would be fun to just go to the extremes on both ends. Figure out how to build a super light cue like 10 or 12 oz, and then build a monster like 40 oz, that would be a trip.
Limits should be pushed for experimentation, and technology not necessarily for application. Just like you can learn from a bad player, you can learn from bad ideas. It’s about that knowledge curve.
Though it might be a good training device to help develop controlled speed. With a heavier baseball bat you get used to using it correctly and the regular bat is even easier to control than before and produces greater bat speed.
Then again pool is very delicate, so I think that would be something to practice the open breaks in 8 and 9 ball. Sure it would have a somewhat detrimental effect on your regular stroke if you incorporated it wrong...but weird kind of cool idea makes me wonder.... could be gold an could most definitely be garbage but who knows.
It would be like using that big hammer to nail your house together wood gets beat up, a descent hammer at a comparable and comfortable weight that’s why you use a 20-24 oz as a framing hammer ,a 16 to 20oz for general duty and smaller 10-13 oz for say re-clothing and tacking a chair.
I tell you what I just finally put a table in the house and going to start building cues again. It would be fun to just go to the extremes on both ends. Figure out how to build a super light cue like 10 or 12 oz, and then build a monster like 40 oz, that would be a trip.
Limits should be pushed for experimentation, and technology not necessarily for application. Just like you can learn from a bad player, you can learn from bad ideas. It’s about that knowledge curve.
Though it might be a good training device to help develop controlled speed. With a heavier baseball bat you get used to using it correctly and the regular bat is even easier to control than before and produces greater bat speed.
Then again pool is very delicate, so I think that would be something to practice the open breaks in 8 and 9 ball. Sure it would have a somewhat detrimental effect on your regular stroke if you incorporated it wrong...but weird kind of cool idea makes me wonder.... could be gold an could most definitely be garbage but who knows.
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I have to agree with those who say using a break cue close to your playing cue will work out the best for most players.
The most important thing in breaking well is hitting the rack accurately and controlling the cue ball, and you can do that the best with a familiar feeling cue. I have tried heavier cues and lighter, and I noticed the big difference being that the different weight just feels uncomfortable in my hand, and that will affect accuracy.
In the tourney I played Thursday, I was making 3 or 4 balls EVERY break, hitting the head ball in 8 ball against guys using break cues 2 to 4 oz. heavier than their game cue. My break cue is 19.4 oz and my game cue is 19.5.
The most important thing in breaking well is hitting the rack accurately and controlling the cue ball, and you can do that the best with a familiar feeling cue. I have tried heavier cues and lighter, and I noticed the big difference being that the different weight just feels uncomfortable in my hand, and that will affect accuracy.
In the tourney I played Thursday, I was making 3 or 4 balls EVERY break, hitting the head ball in 8 ball against guys using break cues 2 to 4 oz. heavier than their game cue. My break cue is 19.4 oz and my game cue is 19.5.
I believe that swinging a light cue faster will cause the cb to go faster and in more control. I believe that the lighter cue is easier to control.
Greyghost.... I'd like to be able to understand your ideas but your posts are very difficult to read. Please use periods and caps and shorter paragraphs so everything doesn't run together.
The way you are currently writing leads me to read about two lines of your post and then give up. It all runs together and I can't determine what your ideas are.
Greyghost.... I'd like to be able to understand your ideas but your posts are very difficult to read. Please use periods and caps and shorter paragraphs so everything doesn't run together.
The way you are currently writing leads me to read about two lines of your post and then give up. It all runs together and I can't determine what your ideas are.
Ok you caught me doing something that; I will honestly say I'm no good at. I always had a problem with grammar. Just an alligator chasing', high water pants wearing' Cajun who learned to use a computer. Glad for the comment, it's just so darn easy to just puke it all up, kind of like the texting on a cell phone.
A lot of people, and including myself are guilty of that an I definitely think people should call us out more. For your sake and others and for the sake of my thoughts I will definitely make the effort to clean it up. Jeez, I could have more class couldn't I? Typing on a Mac and I act like I can't spell, what a bad lazy ghost I have been. Strong point too, just because technology makes it easier doesn't mean you kill the language.
So appreciate it brother. I'm even going to go back and edit my few illiterate posts just for everyones reading enjoyment.
Thanks Much
G.G.
A lot of people, and including myself are guilty of that an I definitely think people should call us out more. For your sake and others and for the sake of my thoughts I will definitely make the effort to clean it up. Jeez, I could have more class couldn't I? Typing on a Mac and I act like I can't spell, what a bad lazy ghost I have been. Strong point too, just because technology makes it easier doesn't mean you kill the language.
So appreciate it brother. I'm even going to go back and edit my few illiterate posts just for everyones reading enjoyment.
Thanks Much
G.G.
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tread2004
New member
I bought a predator bk2 and took the weight bolt out which brought it to just under 17 oz. I was crushing the rack and so was everyone else that tried the cue. So now, several people at my local pool hall are breaking with a lighter cue.
But, I was also having trouble controlling whitey. So, I switched the phenolic tip out and put on a samsara all leather jump/break tip. I also am leaving my tip a lot flatter than I used to. I would say somewhere between flat and a nickle radius. Now, I am still crushing the rack with more cue ball control than I've ever had.
But, I was also having trouble controlling whitey. So, I switched the phenolic tip out and put on a samsara all leather jump/break tip. I also am leaving my tip a lot flatter than I used to. I would say somewhere between flat and a nickle radius. Now, I am still crushing the rack with more cue ball control than I've ever had.
I'm in the "lighter" or "same weight as player cue" camp...for the reasons pooltcher mentioned already. FWIW, Stealth Cues came out with a 13 oz break cue (for about $150). I used it a bunch in their booth, at VF, and it broke the balls very well, as well as providing good CB control. They sold out every one they had brought with them. Personally, I break with my playing cue...which is 18 oz.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Break cue
I played with and broke with a 21 oz. cue for years (30+). I used to get comments about how much my cue bowed when I broke. I, now, play with a 19 oz cue, and my J&J break/jump cue is 19.5 oz, so I guess that puts me in the camp of being close to your playing cue's weight.
It works for me, and I like the feel of slightly more weight for my break cue. More importantly though was the switch from breaking with my playing cue over to a break cue. I feel the 13.25mm shaft on the break cue is a big improvement over the 12.75 mm shaft on my playing cue, plus the difference in tips on each.
If you have a nice playing cue, you always are afraid of scarring it up on the break, and that plays with your mind some. With a break cue though, it is if it works, and not the looks so much. A few dings on a break cue don't matter.
I don't give much creedence to the lighter is faster theory. Even if it is, the difference is so minimal that I do not feel it would provide that much difference from a heavier break cue. I, also, feel a slightly heavier break cue helps for tracking your stroke on the break.
Years ago, in Vegas, I had my break timed 3 times, and I broke at 26, 28, and 31 mph.
I played with and broke with a 21 oz. cue for years (30+). I used to get comments about how much my cue bowed when I broke. I, now, play with a 19 oz cue, and my J&J break/jump cue is 19.5 oz, so I guess that puts me in the camp of being close to your playing cue's weight.
It works for me, and I like the feel of slightly more weight for my break cue. More importantly though was the switch from breaking with my playing cue over to a break cue. I feel the 13.25mm shaft on the break cue is a big improvement over the 12.75 mm shaft on my playing cue, plus the difference in tips on each.
If you have a nice playing cue, you always are afraid of scarring it up on the break, and that plays with your mind some. With a break cue though, it is if it works, and not the looks so much. A few dings on a break cue don't matter.
I don't give much creedence to the lighter is faster theory. Even if it is, the difference is so minimal that I do not feel it would provide that much difference from a heavier break cue. I, also, feel a slightly heavier break cue helps for tracking your stroke on the break.
Years ago, in Vegas, I had my break timed 3 times, and I broke at 26, 28, and 31 mph.
.
When everyone is talking about breaking I assume their taking about 9 ball.
8 ball might be a different amimal all together.
more balls = more power?
I current have a 21oz jump/break cue, but I use my 19oz player to break for 9 or 10 ball. :thumbup:
When everyone is talking about breaking I assume their taking about 9 ball.
8 ball might be a different amimal all together.
more balls = more power?
I current have a 21oz jump/break cue, but I use my 19oz player to break for 9 or 10 ball. :thumbup:
I wasn't advocating that any cue weight is better for breaking. I was just point out that if he wanted speed then lighter is faster. I prefer my break cue to be similar weight as my playing cue and that is around 18 oz.
The quote below from Scott Lee also pertains to this thread. I can actually hit more rails on a 3C table with a 14oz cue that a 21oz cue. One reason I'm sure is control and timing. It takes a lot more strength to move 21 ounces with speed + accuracy. Wrist and arm strength is rarely considered as a factor achieving monster breaks or hitting 11 rails.
Scott Lee
paksat...Get Joe Tucker's "Racking Secrets" dvd...invaluable info, and worth every penny! I agree with taking some speed off your break, for better CB control. Also, develop a normal swing, not the super-wild swings that you see some players do. Archer can get away with it...most of us aren't as talented, and don't have as good of timing, as him!
www.joetucker.net
Scott Lee
Quote:
Originally Posted by paksat View Post
Is there some things the wiser ones here can point out that I need to look for when breaking?
Example being that I notice sometimes that I need to take some off my break in order to make the balls ( so they stop overshooting the pockets ).
I mean is there anything to look for when watching how they bust?
Scott Lee
paksat...Get Joe Tucker's "Racking Secrets" dvd...invaluable info, and worth every penny! I agree with taking some speed off your break, for better CB control. Also, develop a normal swing, not the super-wild swings that you see some players do. Archer can get away with it...most of us aren't as talented, and don't have as good of timing, as him!
www.joetucker.net
Scott Lee
Quote:
Originally Posted by paksat View Post
Is there some things the wiser ones here can point out that I need to look for when breaking?
Example being that I notice sometimes that I need to take some off my break in order to make the balls ( so they stop overshooting the pockets ).
I mean is there anything to look for when watching how they bust?
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3Kushn;
It's not the weight of the cue exactly, all though I prefer 18 oz including the rubber grip, it's the timing and tempo and correct spin thats applied to the cue ball, and the angle that you go into the first rail that will give you 11 cushions on a new cloth.
Mr3cushion
It's not the weight of the cue exactly, all though I prefer 18 oz including the rubber grip, it's the timing and tempo and correct spin thats applied to the cue ball, and the angle that you go into the first rail that will give you 11 cushions on a new cloth.
Mr3cushion