break shot scratch

C

Chris_Lynch

I play pool
Silver Member
This is the first time I've scratched on this break shot in this fashion. Is this something to watch out for? I tried to duplicate it but can't.

This cost me advancing in MD for sure as Zion Zvi ran 83 and out from here. Let me know if you think it's a fluke or something to avoid. I hit the second to last ball in the rack on purpose.

CueTable Help

 
Were the back balls frozen?

Seems kind of strange.

I guess it also depends if you hit the 4 ball full in the front, or if you go past its center and have it go into the gap between the 4 and 5. Sometimes you will skim the edge of the second ball, then go into the corner ball and scratch.

In your diagram, the cue ball goes into that edge of the corner ball. If the Cue Ball hits it flat, or hits the corner ball too full, the opportunity is there for it to go right into the drink.
 
The back balls were frozen. It was a brand new cloth (covered the day before) and I hit it with high left. There's a chance that the high ball might have helped it spin toward the pocket but I definitely had a weird kiss off the 5 after coming off the 4.

I do suppose it's safer to hit the corner ball there instead of the second ball.
 
I play with Samiel and preach against under the rack break shots.He left this same set-up yesterday and scratched also. We talked about it decided the shot would have been fine if it was hit easier.You may have hit the shot a little firm also..As disappointing as this was,you still must have had a great time!
 
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There's a scratch somewhere on every part of the rack if you hit the CB right.

Looking at the diagram, my diagnosis is that the CB was struck at light-speed....hopped off the rail with massive english and warped into the corner pocket. This isn't much of a breakshot to begin with - only bad things happen when you force it.

Joe Tucker and Mr. Blackjack def put me through school with this. My 14.1 game has really, really improved because of these guys.
 
I really didn't hit this break that hard. I think the high ball still followed after hitting the 5 and spun into the corner. I didn't need to hit it hard since the balls were opening fine on that table.

As I rule I don't love behind the rack breaks but you take what you can sometimes and this was all I had. If I had played to the end ball (5) instead of the second ball (4) I would have come away fine. Lesson learned.

I have hit this a dozen times since and haven't come close to scratching of course.
 
Chris_Lynch said:
I really didn't hit this break that hard. I think the high ball still followed after hitting the 5 and spun into the corner....
Click to expand...

Yes, I think that's what happened. There are trick shots like that -- see Byrne's and Massey's books. I suppose playing the shot with draw to hit the other corner of the rack can't scratch like that, but it's harder to break. You might have to use more speed and left to keep from missing the 10 ball.
 
Chris_Lynch said:
This is the first time I've scratched on this break shot in this fashion. Is this something to watch out for? I tried to duplicate it but can't.

This cost me advancing in MD for sure as Zion Zvi ran 83 and out from here. Let me know if you think it's a fluke or something to avoid. I hit the second to last ball in the rack on purpose.

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

Do you see how the initial direction of the CB (before hitting the 1 ball) is parallel to the line from the 5 ball to the corner pocket? What that means is if the CB keeps its topspin, and stops dead when it hits the 4 and 5, that topspin will be driving it straight towards that corner pocket. You're a much much better and more experienced 14.1 player than me, but I always think about this when sizing up a break shot: taking the initial direction of the CB into account, where is the spin driving the ball after contact with the rack?

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
Do you see how the initial direction of the CB (before hitting the 1 ball) is parallel to the line from the 5 ball to the corner pocket? What that means is if the CB keeps its topspin, and stops dead when it hits the 4 and 5, that topspin will be driving it straight towards that corner pocket. You're a much much better and more experienced 14.1 player than me, but I always think about this when sizing up a break shot: taking the initial direction of the CB into account, where is the spin driving the ball after contact with the rack?

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Interesting. Seems I got bit by unnecessary follow on this shot. I used follow since I wanted to hit the second ball and go to the rail and out but with this particular table I don't think I needed it and it helped the CB scratch.

Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated, guys.
 
Chris, my guess is your cueball hit a little closer to the middle of the pack than you were intending. I have seen this scratch and, if memory serves, you're much more likely to get those weird kisses when it takes your cueball an extra split second to "escape" the end of the rack.

You see kisses like this when you have a more standard behind-the-rack breakshot and are following three rails with inside english. If the cueball hits the rack close to center, you sometimes get a rare carom off that corner ball.

- Steve
 
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