Breaking issue

Cdryden

Cdryden

Pool Addict
Silver Member
Recently I have notice that when I break I am slightly raising my tip and not hitting my intended spot on the cue ball which is meant to be slightly above center. (trying to stop the cb in the middle of the table)

Usually I compensate for this by aiming lower but I would rather correct the problem instead of putting a bandaid on it. Is shortening my bridge length the best way to control this problem?

My stroke is usually smooth and straight although I am sure it has some flaws that could be improved on.
 
Chris,
You may be unintentionally dropping your shoulder on the forward portion of your stroke.
I do this intentionally on my breaks, I aim at the very base contact point of the cue ball and cloth and drop my shoulder on the forward swing of my stroke so I hit the cue ball very high. My friend, known as The Renfro on AZ showed me this about 2 years ago, as I was having trouble keeping the cue ball on the table with my power break. He showed me how I was actually hitting down on the forward stroke which will cause the cue ball to fly off the table pretty consistantly once the cue ball contacts the pack. I have been trying to perfect this break ever since. When people see me aiming on the break, they think I am hitting the bottom of the cue ball, but I am doing just the opposite. The idea for me is to; a) Keep the cue ball on the table and; b) have the cue ball go through the rack and break 'em up real good.
Hope this helps, but the only way to know for sure is if you video it or have someone watch your break for you.
---Bill
 
No idea what your doing with out seeing your break stroke or even you playing stroke....

But my suggestion would be to aim where you intend to hit the CB and break at the speed in which you can hit that point, gradually increasing break speed until you can do both consistantly at the speed you intend to do so.
 
RRfireblade said:
No idea what your doing with out seeing your break stroke or even you playing stroke....

But my suggestion would be to aim where you intend to hit the CB and break at the speed in which you can hit that point, gradually increasing break speed until you can do both consistantly at the speed you intend to do so.
Click to expand...

^what he said^
 
Any high speed shot will magnify stoke errors. You could be dipping your shoulder, or you can be tightening up your grip at or prior to impact. Either of these will be real apparent if you use an open bridge for a breakshot or two.

I would suggest a few things.

If the cue ball has a mark on it (like a red circle) setup your breakshot and place that red circle as your target. The break shot is one of the shots that I recommend focusing your eyes on the cueball during stroke delivery. You may want to try both of these (establishing a target to hit on the cueball, and focusing your eyes on that target) that to see if it helps.

You also may want to back off some on the speed until you are hitting the cueball squarely with the desired results, get consistent with that, then slowly build in more speed




Cdryden said:
Recently I have notice that when I break I am slightly raising my tip and not hitting my intended spot on the cue ball which is meant to be slightly above center. (trying to stop the cb in the middle of the table)

Usually I compensate for this by aiming lower but I would rather correct the problem instead of putting a bandaid on it. Is shortening my bridge length the best way to control this problem?

My stroke is usually smooth and straight although I am sure it has some flaws that could be improved on.
Click to expand...
 
Try using a Jim Rempe practice Cue Ball... it has a micro surface on it that will give you feedback about where the tip struck the Cue Ball. It also has crosshairs on it, so you re-orient the cue ball after the fact.
 
Cdryden said:
Recently I have notice that when I break I am slightly raising my tip and not hitting my intended spot on the cue ball which is meant to be slightly above center. (trying to stop the cb in the middle of the table)

Usually I compensate for this by aiming lower but I would rather correct the problem instead of putting a bandaid on it. Is shortening my bridge length the best way to control this problem?

My stroke is usually smooth and straight although I am sure it has some flaws that could be improved on.
Click to expand...

Most top players go ahead and aim super low, but hit higher. I woudn't be concerned if you're getting repeatable results.

It's a bit of a black box technique where you just concern yourself with inputs and output, but I think life is too short to sweat it if you're getting the results you want from the inputs. There is no guarantee that by "correcting", you would get better or even equal results.

I believe that Johnny Archer is one of the only top players that aims slightly above center on the break and actually hits that spot.

Freddie <~~~ aims all over the place
 
Cornerman said:
Most top players go ahead and aim super low, but hit higher. I woudn't be concerned if you're getting repeatable results.

It's a bit of a black box technique where you just concern yourself with inputs and output, but I think life is too short to sweat it if you're getting the results you want from the inputs. There is no guarantee that by "correcting", you would get better or even equal results.

I believe that Johnny Archer is one of the only top players that aims slightly above center on the break and actually hits that spot.

Freddie <~~~ aims all over the place
Click to expand...

I agree.

A good analogy to this technique is splitting firewood with a sledge hammer and wedges. I've been doing this for decades, and for my small stature, I swing a 16-pounder. A lot of folks think that you should "aim" dead center on the top of the wedge, and when they deliver the sledge to the wedge, they overshoot and miss it, actually hitting the wedge with the sledge's handle just behind the head, damaging the handle. The trick when using a sledge and wedges (especially such a heavy sledge) is that you intentionally line up short -- like you're going to miss the wedge on the short side by a full sledge head's diameter -- and when you deliver it, the weight and centrifugal force of the sledge pulling outwards from your body is enough to put it dead-center on target with the wedge's head. Kapow!!

This is analogous to pool in that during a break stroke, as the arm is going through its power stroke, there is a tendency for the tip to "dive down" (or seek) the cloth -- in opposition to the body rising up in many cases. That's because of the natural tendency of the arm to want to "lift" during a power stroke -- it's what the joints in the arm are designed to do during muscle contraction. Other folks may find they have to aim low because the tip is rising during a power stroke -- perhaps due to a downwards movement of the arm (e.g. dropping the elbow). The break stroke is unlike any other, so compensations like intentionally aiming low or aiming high become necessary.

Now, if you had to do that on every shot, that's a different story...

Anyway, I hope this is helpful,
-Sean
 
Last edited:
Thanks to everyone that replied, there were some very good answers. I am going to try a few things out to see what happens. Mainly I think I am going to need to use a higher speed camera to watch my break to get a good idea of exactly what is going on. It may be that I don't want to change a thing, my results are pretty good as is but I am always looking for a way to improve.

If I get that done I will post the results. First I got to find a camera to fit the bill!
 
And there was a Youtube video of Johnny giving some breaking lessons, in which he explained his opinion that you are better off taking something off the break, to ensure a square and flat hit on the head ball. The cue ball skipping down the surface of the table and hitting the headball as it is coming down or going up is a major reduction in power, as Johnny believes.

Perhaps that can explain his accuracy on the cueball when breaking?

Cornerman said:
Most top players go ahead and aim super low, but hit higher. I woudn't be concerned if you're getting repeatable results.

It's a bit of a black box technique where you just concern yourself with inputs and output, but I think life is too short to sweat it if you're getting the results you want from the inputs. There is no guarantee that by "correcting", you would get better or even equal results.

I believe that Johnny Archer is one of the only top players that aims slightly above center on the break and actually hits that spot.

Freddie <~~~ aims all over the place
Click to expand...
 
Cdryden said:
Recently I have notice that when I break I am slightly raising my tip and not hitting my intended spot on the cue ball which is meant to be slightly above center. (trying to stop the cb in the middle of the table)

Usually I compensate for this by aiming lower but I would rather correct the problem instead of putting a bandaid on it. Is shortening my bridge length the best way to control this problem?

My stroke is usually smooth and straight although I am sure it has some flaws that could be improved on.
Click to expand...


Recently when breaking I take the cue ball and line up the red dot to the center of the 1 ball. Then I focus on hitting the red dot (after double checking alignment). This helps me hit the 1ball square and I can really focus on the cue ball when breaking. After the break you can look at the cue ball and see how close you are to your aiming spot.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
And there was a Youtube video of Johnny giving some breaking lessons, in which he explained his opinion that you are better off taking something off the break, to ensure a square and flat hit on the head ball. The cue ball skipping down the surface of the table and hitting the headball as it is coming down or going up is a major reduction in power, as Johnny believes.

Perhaps that can explain his accuracy on the cueball when breaking?
Click to expand...

No, it's not the explanation. Johnny Archer's break speed has been clocked at 33mph. "Taking something off" for him is still in light speed category for the rest of us.

We all have watched Archer over the years, at all speeds of break shot he has been unique in the pro arena for aiming the break shot where he aims it (center to center with a bit high). Nearly all (okay, it's really all) of the other pros aim lower(and subsequently hits higher).

Johnny also explains during his TAR 10-ball match-up how he changes his break from flat to non-flat depending on how the break is going to get a different reaction from the rack. In other words, skipping the cueball is still part of his repertoire. This is related to the bounce theory, as you know. He's probably simply stating that the flat break is going to net possibly a better result if he's getting out of control. But, aiming higher isn't really related to that as far as JA's break is concerned since he aims higher than other pros regardless of flat or non-flat for him.


Freddie
 
Last edited:
It's actually completely normal to raise your tip. It doesn't mean you have a stroke flaw.

Standing up is part of a normal hard break, so your whole arm can swing freely instead of bashing into the rail. So your whole arm is swinging in an arc, rather than just bending at the elbow SPF-style.

At the very bottom of that arc (when your forearm is vertical) your stick might be more or less level. The problem is that the very bottom of the arc is NOT when you want to be contacting the ball. You're not quite up to full speed yet, at that point. (Also, if you wanted to contact the ball at that point, you'd have to probably bring your bridge forward.)

So you're swinging forward, your arm muscles are contracting, and they're still contracting when the cue is level, and they're still contracting as the elbow bends and the arm starts swinging upward from the shoulder.

Your whole cue wants to do the same, which is probably why people tell you to keep a loose wrist. If it's locked, the stick rises upwards along with your back hand. If you keep it loose, the wrist can bend and allow the cue to stay level (actually pointed downward a bit, hence the jumping action on a good hard break).

Allowing your tip to go a little high is actually ok because on a powerful break, the cue ball bounces backwards. Hitting a hair above center gives it a little topspin when it lands, and that's what gives it that magical pop'n'squat action where it seems to dive forward a hair, and then just dies in the middle of the table.

Bottom line, I'd say don't worry about it, what you're doing is normal and you see it all the time with pros too.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
And there was a Youtube video of Johnny giving some breaking lessons, in which he explained his opinion that you are better off taking something off the break, to ensure a square and flat hit on the head ball. The cue ball skipping down the surface of the table and hitting the headball as it is coming down or going up is a major reduction in power, as Johnny believes.

Perhaps that can explain his accuracy on the cueball when breaking?
Click to expand...

Not sure about the skipping part but he does say to take something off to ensure a full hit if you have trouble...

He recently went to a similar break to Shane where he is squatting the cueball... He's hitting down thru it and launching the cueball at the rack so it's skipping to the rack but his angle and speed make sure that it is landing squarely and not on the way down or up by any significance.....

It's a very similar to his bar box break where he has launched the cueball at the headball at least in the last couple of Music City events I have seen him play in.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top