Breaking with an ivory ferrule - Is it a bad idea?

Take my .02 cents for what it's worth.. Just that 2 cents.

Didn't most high end cues back in the day have Ivory ferrules? Hell at one point they were playing with Ivory balls. I myself have played with the old "clay" balls on occasion, and let me tell you those things weigh ALOT, to the point where I was a little concerned about my playing cues shaft / ferrule etc..

People used to break with Ivory ferrules back in the day, with heavier balls.. I don't see why if it's installed correctly from the get go why you couldn't today with lighter balls.

I have a set of old... old old Centenials that we use as our daily balls, and they are considerably heavier then the new aramiths & centenials of today as well. (just something to think about) They make a considerably different sound as well.

DJ
 
OK...let me make it more simple...
Why would you break with an ivory ferrule that very well may crack...and cost often close to $100 to replace...or use a $30 Ivorine 4...with a (from me) lifetime warranty that will last forever?:confused:
 
Varney Cues said:
OK...let me make it more simple...
Why would you break with an ivory ferrule that very well may crack...and cost often close to $100 to replace...or use a $30 Ivorine 4...with a (from me) lifetime warranty that will last forever?:confused:
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In the instance that you have a cue with ivory ferrules already on it I would break with it, and not opt to pay for another cue with an ivorine ferrule on it. Or are you suggesting to cut the ivory ferrule of the existing cue and replace it with an synthetic replacement?

Incidentally I've had a few cues over the years with Ivory ferrules, and I pretty much always break with my playing cue. I've never had any issues either.

DJ
 
I think this was way before Mr Varneys Time!

PlynSets said:
Take my .02 cents for what it's worth.. Just that 2 cents.

Didn't most high end cues back in the day have Ivory ferrules? Hell at one point they were playing with Ivory balls. I myself have played with the old "clay" balls on occasion, and let me tell you those things weigh ALOT, to the point where I was a little concerned about my playing cues shaft / ferrule etc..

People used to break with Ivory ferrules back in the day, with heavier balls.. I don't see why if it's installed correctly from the get go why you couldn't today with lighter balls.

I have a set of old... old old Centenials that we use as our daily balls, and they are considerably heavier then the new aramiths & centenials of today as well. (just something to think about) They make a considerably different sound as well.

DJ
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or LOL! perhaps "real men" just didn't play pool then! :rolleyes:
 
All I can say on this subject is that in years gone by, NO ONE would break with an ivory cue (ferrule or joint). It was commom knowledge that was not a good idea, because it could crack.

The best and strongest ferrules were made from phenolic (cue balls) or micarta. Maybe it's different today. Even buckhorn was considered stronger than ivory. But I'm no cuemaker so what do I know.
 
ah, the old "you mispelled something so you don't know diddly do da argument." Very good. Of course, I've never heard of Varney Cues either...

Anywhos, I've only played with with Ginas -- mostly serviced by Ernie himself -- for 25 or so years (and yes, his f-e-r-r-u-l-e-s are capped and glass smooth on top) and I've never had a problem. Maybe he knows something (or two, or three, or just pick a number) that you don't?

The truth is that there are a lot of Butchers with Lathes out there that call themselves Cuemakers or Cue Mechanics (not saying you're one of them) and will tell you they've seen or done 100s of something or other.

So you're right -- people need to choose carefully who they listen to ;-)

Lou Figueroa


Varney Cues said:
This is one of the most untrue things I've ever read on AZB. I do this for a living...I've seen 100's of ivory ferrules installed by everyone from Black to Tad...and they all crack and break when mistreated. Breaking with an ivory ferrule is indeed mistreating it. In fact ivory does NOT even play as well as Iv4 or SaberT. Your cue ...your choice...you can listen to a professional who does this for a living...or to someone who can't even spell ferrule...who thinks its ok if the top is smooth.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I've had not one single pro or even top player ask for an ivory ferrule in the past several years. The only time I get asked to replace an ivory ferrule is when someone has a high end cue...like a Black...and has cracked the ivory by playing with it. Then you'd want to put ivory back on it to keep it original & worth more when sold.
I'm sure there are some who break with ivory and have no problem...but thats a limited few. I guarantee an ivory ferrule will not last one day on my break cue...or Larry Nevel...or anyone else who actually "hits" em' like a man when they they break.
I simply can not make this issue any more clear than that.
I will now return this thread to "ifigueroa" who can explain more about how he knows it ok because elephants fight. By the way ifigueroa...when the elephants do fight...there tusk are not 13mm & 1 inch long...and basically hollow.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Well All I can say Jay ...

jay helfert said:
All I can say on this subject is that in years gone by, NO ONE would break with an ivory cue (ferrule or joint). It was commom knowledge that was not a good idea, because it could crack.

The best and strongest ferrules were made from phenolic (cue balls) or micarta. Maybe it's different today. Even buckhorn was considered stronger than ivory. But I'm no cuemaker so what do I know.
Click to expand...

My Uncle who was a world straight Pool Champion used custom cues with ivory in the ferrules and joints (I have one of them from him still) and he played 8 ball and 9 ball for his living he broke with the same cues he played with and no problems! He always told me however to always (we lived in cold as hell in the winter N.Y.) when starting to play let my cue warm up to room temperature before breaking ! I suppose now this is why he said that. on Bludworths website is this tidbit....


Cold weather affects ivory. When you take your cue to your Host Location to play, hold or grip your ivory joint and/or ferrule with your hand to allow the ivory to warm-up to at least the room temperature or your hand temperature. This allows the ivory to become stable. If the ivory is not allowed to stabilize at a warmer temperature, you risk breaking or developing a crack in either the joint or the ferrule. It’s best to let the cue sit out of the case at room temperature for 20-30 minutes to allow it to stabilize. Whichever method you use, be sure not to screw the shaft down tight on the butt until you’re satisfied that it has reached the room’s temperature.

See ya,

“ Da Blud”

Bludworth Billiard Products, LLC
(830) 232-5991
http://www.bludworth.com

:D
 
jay helfert said:
The best and strongest ferrules were made from phenolic (cue balls) or micarta. Maybe it's different today. Even buckhorn was considered stronger than ivory. But I'm no cuemaker so what do I know.
Click to expand...

You know plenty! My favorite ferrule for a conventional shaft is buckhorn. It's strong and attractive. I have a couple of Eddie Laube cues made in the 1960's that still have their original buckhorn ferrules and they look like new. It's a lot stronger than ivory, which is brittle.

I don't have a very hard break and I've broken the wood or the ferrules on my last 3 break cues. They were made out of strong synthetic materials such as LBM. I think these hard tips being used today are very hard on ferrules and shafts. Eventually something gives.

Chris
 
MrLucky said:
My Uncle who was a world straight Pool Champion used custom cues with ivory in the ferrules and joints (I have one of them from him still) and he played 8 ball and 9 ball for his living he broke with the same cues he played with and no problems! He always told me however to always (we lived in cold as hell in the winter N.Y.) when starting to play let my cue warm up to room temperature before breaking ! I suppose now this is why he said that. on Bludworths website is this tidbit....


Cold weather affects ivory. When you take your cue to your Host Location to play, hold or grip your ivory joint and/or ferrule with your hand to allow the ivory to warm-up to at least the room temperature or your hand temperature. This allows the ivory to become stable. If the ivory is not allowed to stabilize at a warmer temperature, you risk breaking or developing a crack in either the joint or the ferrule. It’s best to let the cue sit out of the case at room temperature for 20-30 minutes to allow it to stabilize. Whichever method you use, be sure not to screw the shaft down tight on the butt until you’re satisfied that it has reached the room’s temperature.

See ya,

“ Da Blud”

Bludworth Billiard Products, LLC
(830) 232-5991
http://www.bludworth.com

:D
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Interesting post Lucky. I was taught to keep all cues at room temperature (I grew up in Ohio). That is, don't leave your cue in the car! It can get too hot or too cold. Mostly this was to protect the wood from warping. I was not aware it would affect the ivory as well.

World Champ huh. Must have been a good player. In the old days ivory was coveted for its feel. By that I mean you had a little better touch on the cue ball and could control it better. Very valuable for a 14.1 player, where precise position play is everything. I could see where he would prefer ivory all around.

Personally I always liked the feel of an ivory joint. I've owned a few cues like this, and they seemed a little more sensitive to the cue ball.
 
Break with ivory ferrule

I break in 14.1 all the time with an ivory ferrule. What the big deal??

Guess I should practice my lag.

LOL:D
 
In todays times....

bruin70 said:
there is absolutely no reason for you to breakwith ivory.
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I would agree with you since the cues I own that have ivory are collectors items I no longer play with them and the new harder tips as Chris (TATE) states are tougher on a ferrule since they transfer more shock!
 
MrLucky said:
The folks he took money from knew him as Cisero Murphy
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I knew your Uncle quite well. He was a gentle man with a unique stroke. That hesitation hitch in his backswing drove his opponents crazy. After you watched that for about an hour, you couldn't make a ball.

Yes, he could play a little. In his day, he was considered one of the top five 14.1 players in the world. His contemporaries included Lassiter, Balsis, Crane, Caras, Eufemia and Cranfield. Other competitors were Kelly, Breit, Diliberto, Colavita, West, Ervolino, Johnson and McGown. Among the younger generation he had to deal with Mizerak, Rempe, Varner, Margo, Nagy and Hopkins.

I believe Cisero is the guy who put the second loss on Mosconi in Burbank in 1966, allowing Balsis to win the tournament. Correct me if I'm wrong. EVERYONE had a great deal of respect for your Uncle. He was a soft spoken man who was not a braggart. He let his cue do the talking. And he was so trim and fit that I was in shock when I heard he passed. He wasn't so old, maybe early 60's, right. Not so long ago.

Your Uncle was not only a great poolplayer. More importantly he was a good man! I know about the work he did with the kids on the streets of NYC. You have a good heritage.
 
Lets talk sometime......

jay helfert said:
I knew your Uncle quite well. He was a gentle man with a unique stroke. That hesitation hitch in his backswing drove his opponents crazy. After you watched that for about an hour, you couldn't make a ball.

Yes, he could play a little. In his day, he was considered one of the top five 14.1 players in the world. His contemporaries included Lassiter, Balsis, Crane, Caras, Eufemia and Cranfield. Other competitors were Kelly, Breit, Diliberto, Colavita, West, Ervolino, Johnson and McGown. Among the younger generation he had to deal with Mizerak, Rempe, Varner, Margo, Nagy and Hopkins.

I believe Cisero is the guy who put the second loss on Mosconi in Burbank in 1966, allowing Balsis to win the tournament. Correct me if I'm wrong. EVERYONE had a great deal of respect for your Uncle. He was a soft spoken man who was not a braggart. He let his cue do the talking. And he was so trim and fit that I was in shock when I heard he passed. He wasn't so old, maybe early 60's, right. Not so long ago.

Your Uncle was not only a great poolplayer. More importantly he was a good man! I know about the work he did with the kids on the streets of NYC. You have a good heritage.
Click to expand...
actually Cis' in the 60's to early 70's wasn't real great when it came to taking care of his health as far as diet and exercise both he and my Dad passed within 1 year of each other with the same complications. Yes he was a quiet serious player ! he hated with a passion the Wanderones of his times because of the buffoonery and talk and no back up! Thanks for the kind words I wold love to hear of your experiences PM me and perhaps we can exchange numbers I heard much from David (BlackJack) who he helped along the way! Peace!
 
MrLucky said:
The folks he took money from knew him as Cisero Murphy
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Whew, now I don't have to keep the Ciscero secret anymore!!!

Good to see you posting, Mr. Lucky.

Chris
 
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