Broken cue warranty???

[FLYINGSNAIL]

I sold this Jensen Nov. 1, 2008. Few months later cue came back to me broken. The story was "while the owner playing/breaking with is cue and broken in half". I took the in and talk with Mike Johnson at JENSEN CUES on the phone. I send cue back to him have it inspect.
(A) As a cue owner stand point. What would you expection? Should cue maker warranty for this?
(B) As a cue maker what would do? Repair and No charge?
(C) As a cue seller what can you do?

 

[petticasey]

wow

They should replace it, I wouldn't want a repair on that. That is if it actually did break from normal use.

 

[Guerra Cues]

Kenny,
Do you actually believe that "defect" was caused by a bad break or because somebody tried to break the cue?
That to me is a sign of abuse... Sorry... I break hard and I don't think I would never break a cue like that...
Is there anybody in the forum that could give some clues to see if the cue was broken by abuse?

 

[manwon]

I sold this Jensen Nov. 1, 2008. Few months later cue came back to me broken. The story was "while the owner playing/breaking with is cue and broken in half". I took the in and talk with Mike Johnson at JENSEN CUES on the phone. I send cue back to him have it inspect.
(A) As a cue owner stand point. What would you expection? Should cue maker warranty for this?
(B) As a cue maker what would do? Repair and No charge?


While some will disagree, in my opinion the forearm should have been cored due to the base wood used which in many cases will tend to crack if under stress. I have seen many cues with broken joints just like the cue pictured, and in my opinion they all broke because non-straight grained woods were used and they were not cored to strengthen them.

In my opinion, the cue maker should correct the problem if obvious abuse is not evident, or at least absorb part of the cost for replacing the forearm.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Varney Cues]

Many years ago I exploded a TS the very same way. Wasn't even my cue & I had promised the owner I wouldn't break with it. Well I broke with it & snapped it very much like the Jensen. After talking with Tim on the phone he said send it back & he'd look at it. Later that very same week I had a box arrive...Tim had replaced the entire cue with one very similar. Talk about excellent customer service. Then I had to explain to my friend why his TS now looked a little different.
With that being said....I think most makers would truly consider that abuse & not warranty it. I feel thats probably how I'd see it if I had not done one once myself. No abuse...just a monster break. Moral of the story...its best to always use a break cue.:wink:

 

[ApoDra]

I have seen 2-3 cues broken like this.
One was when the player miss a shot and he took his cue and kinda let his hand down on the edge of the table and the cue touch the rail and broke, nothing like he was trying to break the cue. It was a Bear cue the brand that Bustamane uses.
Another was a Meucci that was really strange the cue was tight and the guy hit the cue with his hand to create a vibration to unscrew the cue and the cue broke in half.

The joints was 5-16/14 and 5-16/18 in both situations it looked like the broken cue in the photo a clean cut and in both you could alse see the screw it looks like this must be the weaker point of the forearm and sometimes it just brokes.

I don't think that breaking with the cue had anything to do with the cue breaking it looks like a random accident that you might be unlucky enough to experience.

 

[manwon]

Kenny,
Do you actually believe that "defect" was caused by a bad break or because somebody tried to break the cue?
That to me is a sign of abuse... Sorry... I break hard and I don't think I would never break a cue like that...
Is there anybody in the forum that could give some clues to see if the cue was broken by abuse?

Partner, the broken cue had little to do with breaking hard. If you look closely at the grain of the wood that was used in the forearm it tells the entire story. The grain is not straight like in most highly figured woods, and since the wood has swirls in the woods surface those swirls also continue through the piece of wood to the other side. This will create structural instability, and while not in all cases, the wood will fracture along those lines like in the photo. In the end the forearm should have been cored, and if it had been the problem would not have occurred like it has.
Take Care Tony!!!

 

[Graciocues]

IMO

It's a builder warranty. It looks like the grain split. The wood should be cored if the grain doesn't run the lenght of the forearm or close to it. If the cue is built properly breaking with it will not hurt it.

 

[KeeFy]

It looks as if the wood sheared from a weak line of fault. Doesn't look like abuse at all! With breaking due to abuse you'd see a lot more splinters. Since it's not considered abuse, IMHO the cue maker should replace the butt.

 

[cuewould]

Grain

Manwonis correct the grain lines prove it ....Somtimes it's very hard to see the grain shift with so much going on ...But that should be covered....Just my 2

 

[cuewould]

Grain

Manwon is correct the grain lines prove it ....Somtimes it's very hard to see the grain shift with so much going on ...But that should be covered....Just my 2

 

[KJ Cues]

I'd like to suggest that we look at the other side of the coin here.
I can see several reasons why this cue COULD have broke, but I don't think that they in themselves are what caused this.

The first thing that caught my attention was the 'grit' marks on the collar & ring-work. This cue was dropped. That constitutes abuse. Cues aren't built to withstand lateral impact/loading. Even tapping the cue on the side of your hand to check vibration is inviting disaster.

If I'm correct that this cue broke as a result of being dropped, then there is no liability by the CM. Hypothetically, even if the scenario was as innocent as leaning the cue on the table's edge & it fell over on a carpeted floor, it was neglected, ergo, abused. The grit marks tell me that the floor wasn't carpeted.

I wouldn't be too quick to judge here. Cues break for a lot of strange reasons and since none of us was present at the time this happened, then who's to say? We're just looking at pictures and drawing conclusions.
How can this be fair to the CM?

 

[cutter]

Sorry, but I don't go for the grain line story. Look at the striations in the wood, they are pretty parallel. IMO I go with KJ, the cue was hit by something that made the marks on the collar, that compressed the left side of the cue and pulled the right side apart. That's why you have the little nipple at the end of the joint piece. If that side had sheared/compressed, you wouldn't have the nice clean edge. I guess Gus should have cored all his birdseye.

 

[sliprock]

I sold this Jensen Nov. 1, 2008. Few months later cue came back to me broken. The story was "while the owner playing/breaking with is cue and broken in half". I took the in and talk with Mike Johnson at JENSEN CUES on the phone. I send cue back to him have it inspect.
(A) As a cue owner stand point. What would you expection? Should cue maker warranty for this?
(B) As a cue maker what would do? Repair and No charge?
(C) As a cue seller what can you do?

I've seen several cues break like this and it's always been due to abuse or by an abusive player. The break might happen today but the damage might have been done weeks before. Miss a ball, smack the cue on the table, create a crack. Play for several weeks until the crack becomes a break, then claim "I was just playing and it broke". I would have to inspect the break before I would warranty the cue. If the break occured while someone was breaking a rack, sorry about their luck..

 

[manwon]

Sorry, but I don't go for the grain line story. Look at the striations in the wood, they are pretty parallel. IMO I go with KJ, the cue was hit by something that made the marks on the collar, that compressed the left side of the cue and pulled the right side apart. That's why you have the little nipple at the end of the joint piece. If that side had sheared/compressed, you wouldn't have the nice clean edge. I guess Gus should have cored all his birdseye.

It is a flip of the coin, and like others have said there could be many solutions or answers why this cue broke, however, I will bet anyone on the forum that if it had been cored this thread would not have been started.

I guess Gus should have cored all his Birdseye.[/

We all know that Gus did not core his cues, but we also know that George Balabushka only choose straight grained forearms for his cues for the exact same reason cues are cored today. George in rare cases did make some cues with Curly or some Birdseye Maple even though he didn't prefer to, in most cases these were also Szamboti blanks. However, while George didn't core his cues either he certain understand the need to carefully select wood with straight grain and little figure, directly do to the woods stability.

Now with that said most not all cues makers today do core their forearms for the strength that is achieved by doing it, when using woods that are highly figured or known to be structurally weak like figured Maple. All cue makers want their cues to last into the future, and I suspect they also want to be known for building cues that will take the normal wear and tear that occurs. In my opinion if a cue is built right normal wear and tear would include dropping the cue occasionally, we all know that it happens and we have all done it. However, how would anyone feel if they dropped their cue or it fell over and this alone caused it to break in half, all I can say is if I built a customer a cue and this happened I would fix or replace it. Doing the right thing doesn't always make you money, but it certainly gives you credibility and nothing go's farther than good customer service.

If the cue pictured was cored, I believe that the problem we are looking at would not have happened. So as far as I am concerned, the message is clear and the photo's speak volumes, I think we can all learn from the techniques that others use, and it gives us a choice that others did not have when we build cues ourselves.

Just my thoughts!

 

[Varney Cues]

it fell over on a carpeted floor

LOL....truthfully, I've seen more than a couple Moochies break at the very same spot right under the pin as a result of falling onto a carpeted floor. Back in my league days I watched a teammate's Moochie roll of the table & lightly fall 2ft onto the carpet...SNAP...at the time I was amazed. Little did I know it was par for the course. Doesn't help that most Moochies are less than .820 at the joint.
I have to agree with KJ & Steve...after having the "grit" marks brought to attention...that tells another story.

 

[manwon]

LOL....truthfully, I've seen more than a couple Moochies break at the very same spot right under the pin as a result of falling onto a carpeted floor. Back in my league days I watched a teammate's Moochie roll of the table & lightly fall 2ft onto the carpet...SNAP...at the time I was amazed. Little did I know it was par for the course. Doesn't help that most Moochies are less than .820 at the joint.
I have to agree with KJ & Steve...after having the "grit" marks brought to attention...that tells another story.

I still don't think we can say for certain what happened, the marks could have happened before the cue even broke. Whether we agree or do not agree we should still be able to agree that if it were cored it would not have happened, and that should be a lesson learned by all.

Take Care Kevin.

 

[Thunder Thighs]

I'm no expert, but for this type of damage I think that the customer should pay for the repair. If the repair is done by the cuemaker that actually built the cue , and he offers a generous discount on the work, then great...

 

[cueaddicts]

Sorry, but I don't go for the grain line story. Look at the striations in the wood, they are pretty parallel. IMO I go with KJ, the cue was hit by something that made the marks on the collar, that compressed the left side of the cue and pulled the right side apart. That's why you have the little nipple at the end of the joint piece. If that side had sheared/compressed, you wouldn't have the nice clean edge. I guess Gus should have cored all his birdseye.

I agree, too. I've seen this same exact type of break in a cue before......right after a buddy missed an easy shot and then proceeded to swing his cue down hitting it (upper shaft near the joint area) right on top of a padded bar stool. It was a mid c.1980 Joss.

 

[TellsItLikeItIs]

How can this be fair to the CM?

It isnt fair to the cuemaker! Neither is this poll!

The CM should at least been given an opportunity to look at the cue before this poll was started. Too damn late now though isnt it.

Any person that knows Mike also knows the man is as fair as they come. If he feels in his heart he was at fault he will make it good. He might even make it good if he wasnt but thats his decision.

All that aside for the moment. How about adding another category to the poll like How long should a cue be warranteed and to how many subsequent owners?
When the cue was sold last year was a warranty offered?

This cue is on its second owner now. Or is it the third owner? Or fourth? How about some common sense on the part of the user? Mistreat your equipment and this is whats going to happen.