Brunswick Superspeed Cushions

[Mr. Bond]

I couldn't agree more. If MR. Bond feels like i don't know shit about shit, he should share the information he has to support that claim!

The information I have is nothing.
You have provided exactly nothing to convince me that you are an expert on cushion performance.

As a matter of fact, all you did was (insult me and) ask me a bunch of hypothetical questions instead of offering up your expertise. Your choice I suppose.

....or stop acting like he knows something about working on pool tables, then putting out faults information to the public!

Glen Glen Glen. Apparently you don't read very well. And you must have forgotten where I live.

First of all, I don't put out false information. Ever.
And here in Chicago, Mr. Chambers and I study rails like teenage boys study teenage girls. Which is a lot. I know plenty about working on tables you silly man.


This kind of actions towards me is childish and uncalled for,

Asking you to provide factual information about cushions (rather than opinions) is childish?

Huh?

Oh wait now I get it...
That must be why you're so rude and snippy to people. Because you think that when they ask you to seriously explain something, they are being childish.
Ok now I understand.

if he has the proof to show where I'm wrong about what i stated about the cushions, he should have just posted his results.

Geez man. Again with the reading issues Glen. I never said you were wrong. I simply asked for some kind of proof that you have ever seriously tested any brand of cushion.

Actions like this seem to always come from people that don't agree what what I've posted,

What's funny is, I never disagreed with you. Silly man.

but just can't seem to back up their claims with proof, so everyones just suppose to take their word for what ever they say

But wait, just a minute ago you said that asking for proof is childish and uncalled for.



And to further prove the point, why in the world would anyone claim Superspeed cushions can be installed on any pool table....unless of course they have no idea what they're talking about, because that's just more wrong information being feed to the public, we have enough of that going around already, don't need more of it from him!!

Lets review Glen, since you seem to be having a memory lapse:

------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by mchnhed
Question: Are Superspeed's good cushions on other brands of tables or just Brunswicks?

Answer posted by me:
Superspeed are good cushions for any table, provided the rails have been properly modified to accept them.

The same can safely be said about Artemis and Klematch as well.
------------------------------------------

No false information here.
Have a great day

 

[GoldCrown]

Not sure if I posted this before....Brunswick super speed have a lifetime warranty. Brunswick does everything possible to make the warranty not work. The tech that did my rails used MBS cushions. It was easier to skip the warranty. I'm not that fine tuned that I can tell the difference.

 

[realkingcobra]

Lets review Glen, since you seem to be having a memory lapse:

------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by mchnhed
Question: Are Superspeed's good cushions on other brands of tables or just Brunswicks?

Answer posted by me:
Superspeed are good cushions for any table, provided the rails have been properly modified to accept them.

The same can safely be said about Artemis and Klematch as well.
------------------------------------------

No false information here.
Have a great day

What tables have YOU personally installed cushions on? You want to call Jerimy Chambers YOUR expert, ask him who he learned about the correct sub rail thickness from....by demonstration and explaination!

 

[realkingcobra]

Lets review Glen, since you seem to be having a memory lapse:

------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by mchnhed
Question: Are Superspeed's good cushions on other brands of tables or just Brunswicks?

Answer posted by me:
Superspeed are good cushions for any table, provided the rails have been properly modified to accept them.

The same can safely be said about Artemis and Klematch as well.
------------------------------------------

No false information here.
Have a great day

What you fail to understand, is that when a pool table plays right, it has a certain feel to it, i can't explain that to you, but if you were actually a player at some point in time, you'd understand what I'm talming about. Jerimy is not nor has ever been a player, but he knows how to work on rails like painting a picture by the numbers. Ask Jerimy if he knows how to make a pool table better for playing 14.1 instead of 9 ball, yet keep the ProCut pocket dementions....LOL

 

[Johnnybgood]

Sure is a lot of effort put into these responses. In the words of my hero "can't we all just get along".


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

 

[realkingcobra]

Sure is a lot of effort put into these responses. In the words of my hero "can't we all just get along".


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

It would be nice if people who DON'T work on pool tables, would stop trying to tell me and everyone else what DOES work. Just because a cushion can be installed on a GC, that don't mean it should be!

 

[realkingcobra]

Sure is a lot of effort put into these responses. In the words of my hero "can't we all just get along".


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

What MR Bond fails to understand, is that while yes, Superspeed, Artemis, and Klematch cushions can all 3 be installed on a GC, all 3 also have their own little differences in how the balls react off the cushions. There's a reason why 3C tables play with such consistency when banking balls, and why pool tables can vary so much from one table to the next, and that variable with Klematch cushions is because first of all, the billiards balls are considerably larger in size when compared to the 2 1/4" pool balls. 3C is ALL about banking the balls, whereas pool is 90% about pocketing the balls. Yet, people like to compare the path traveled of a cue ball on a billiards table to that of a pool table, thats like comparing Apple's to Peanuts. First off, the cloth on a 3C table is way different than ANY cloth used on a pool table. Secondly, the 3C balls being bigger, require a much higher nose height, and in a game that requires the most consistent banking, the cushions are harder than of those used on any pool table, because on a 3C table, whether the cue ball is banked hard or medium its extremely important that it travels along the same path. Unlike on a pool table, where soft, medium, and hard banking will produce a wide variety of results. Because of the higher density cushions used on a 3C table, installing them on a pool table means giving up the 2 and 3 rail twist back banking in the side pocket. Twisting back a frozen ball on the side rail, back under the shooter into your corner pocket is gone as well. You can also pretty well give up trying to shorten up a bank shot except for a minimal amount of shorting up the bank, because you CAN'T compress the cushion you're banking the ball off of enough to really see much change in the banks. Although, they ARE a great cushion for Z banking balls....LOL without being able to compress the cushion nose, there's little one can do to create a variety of banks, other than straight on, by the diamonds, banking balls, which is what 3C is all about, repeatability when banking, but that leaves playing pool out, so now why would MR Bond try telling everyone....oh, the Klematch cushions are a great choice of cushions to install on a pool table, great quality cushions as well. And yes, i agree.....for a 3C billiards table!!!

 

[mchnhed]

First off...
I am not questioning your knowledge or expertise Glen.
As a Newbie Ball Banger I am confused by a couple truths you brought up.

Inconsistent rails on pool tables are by design?
or
Have Pool Table cushions always been inconsistent and we learned how to adapt as part of the game?

Has 3C always had consistent cushions compared to pool tables?
Even back in the day?
A 3C table with pool cushions would be unpredictable and unplayable, correct?

Would a pool table with 3C cushions be playable but too predictable to be enjoyed?

No wonder Pool is so difficult to play!

 

[J. Chambers]

I would appreciate people not dropping my name. I do know what I am doing. Anyone who doubts me can easily call me. Im not here to get involved in disagreements because im well aware that most arguments cannot be won even when right. Im far to busy working and dealing with everyday life than to be typing away just to defend my credibility! I will only give credit where credit is due. My knowledge base is mostly from my father, my own mistakes, my own research and years of listening to everything that people have told me. I even listen to "hacks" because you never know what you can learn by having an open mind. Understand this though..... I had been making "new" rails for both Anniversaries and "T" rails for antiques for approximately 15-20 years before I ever met you Glen. I fully appreciate your taking the time to come to my shop years back and give me an insight to what you do and how you do it. It was nice to meet you. I have retained your thoughts on how things could be done with custom made hand type tools as well. Please understand I do not fully agree with you on some things though. Which is fine with me. I can live with that. The problem here with the cushion argument there are several things that come into play mainly cushion profile, cushion durometer, impact surface, control strip, subrail geometry, rail density, rail anchoring, humidity, cloth types, amount of wear on cloth, amount of dirt and oils saturated into rail cloth etc.......... on and on. Too many variables with no standard. Then you factor in the personal preference category of the individual player. I will be taking two identical Gold crown 1's I will be making one set of rails the original way out of poplar and I will be installing every type of relevant cushion and recording all findings through video and base measurements. I will also do the same with a set of my rails and recording all data. I will also answer any questions or conduct any tests that anyone out there would like to ask for. I feel strongly I know how all this is going to turn out. I will be conducting this research at Simonis I feel its time that people should know the truth. Anyone feel free to call me with questions. (708)574-9888. Please don not involve me again in your silly little arguments! I have enough to deal with than have to fight for my own credibility. The customer is king. Everything revolves around what they want, they pay my bills and for that I have the utmost respect for them. Im not sure if I will be posting my findings for everyone to see on here..... maybe I will depending how I feel or positive feedback I get on the subject. Oh and by the way if you put artemis on upside-down backwards three feet above the rail to the customers request...... you have done the job right! Maybe not correct though lol. I really hope I don't have to get back on here later to bicker about opinions so please respect that. I will respect everyone elses time and thoughts or capabilities . So please respect mine.

 

[realkingcobra]

Jerimy, i don't have a problem with you what-so-ever as you know that, my problem is with the so called or thought of people that would lead others to believe that these certain cushions play better than these other cushions, and therefore people should buy these cushions instead of those cushions. All the while over looking the most influential factor in the playability of the cushions, ALL cushiins, and that is the SUB RAIL DESIGN that the cushions are mounted to. This is the most ignorant industry I've ever seen or have been involved with, yet it's filled with so many experts that have absolutely know idea what they're talking about, but to talk to them on the phone about fixing a pool table, they would lead you to believe they really know what they're doing. When you can call up 100 billiards business and act you're a customer with a GC1, and you want new cushions installed, you'll be lucky if you find one place that recomends superspeed cushions, but you will find that every one of them offers the cushion replacement service for a fee, but just don't expect expert work to be performed. I've heard so many different answers from billiards businesses it's a joke. I've ran across GC rails with Olhausen Accufast cushions, Artemis K66 pool cushions, and all sorts of other types of cushions, of which none were the right cushions for a GC. You can do all the research you want into cushions Jerimy, but when it comes to making them play right, no 2 sets of rails will play the same unless they share the same sub rail design. If there's anything you learned from me, its the back height of the cushion is just as important as the nose height, because it determines where the body of the cushion is in relation to the nose height, which is a major factor in the playability of the cushions, which is why a set of cushions can play great on one pool table, yet horribly bad on another. Remember A+B=C
Good luck with trying to change this industry as i no longer have any faith in the ability to turn it around as it no longer has anything to do with pool tables, but has everything to do with sales. Even the rails you build and sell have almost no chance of getting installed on a customers pool table correctly if just shipped out. I know there are some good pool table mechanics out there, but its my belief that 99% of the so called pool table mechanics in this country are idiots, and that's who you'll be sending out rails to.

 

[Mr. Bond]

What you fail to understand, is that when a pool table plays right, it has a certain feel to it, i can't explain that to you, but if you were actually a player at some point in time, you'd understand what I'm talming about.

Might be the most ridiculous thing you've ever uttered Glen.
I've played pool, snooker and billiards for about 30 years now.

...while yes, Superspeed, Artemis, and Klematch cushions can all 3 be installed on a GC, all 3 also have their own little differences in how the balls react off the cushions.

And that's all you really needed to say this whole time.
I did not specify that in my response because:

A. The " difference" between the brands of cushion was not the question asked.

B. I would expect the average consumer to already understand that each brand would have it's own unique characteristics.

 

[realkingcobra]

A. The " difference" between the brands of cushion was not the question asked.

B. I would expect the average consumer to already understand that each brand would have it's own unique characteristics.

The different brands was stated by you as good replacement cushions by you, which in fact proves you don't know the difference in how they play, which in turn doesn't give you any more credibility to speak about how a pool table should play, because it's clear that even claiming to have played for 30 years, you fail to undsrstand the difference. By the way I've been working on pool tables for over 34 years, and have played for over 47 years

And please don't over estimate the consumer's knowledge about the difference in how pool tables play, because if they for the most part knew ANYTHING about pool tables, they wouldn't be buying the Chinese built pieces of shit sold through most retail stores for their pool tables at home!

 

[Mr. Bond]

The different brands was stated by you as good replacement cushions by you, which in fact proves you don't know the difference in how they play, which in turn doesn't give you any more credibility to speak about how a pool table should play, because it's clear that even claiming to have played for 30 years, you fail to undsrstand the difference.

Dang dude, try decaff or something, and pull your pants up.

Fact: Artemis, Klematch and Superspeed all make good quality cushions for pool tables. And of course they all play different. Doesn't take a rocket scientist Glen.

I really love a good chicken fried steak.

 

[realkingcobra]

Doesn't take a rocket scientist Glen.

Funny you should mention that, i worked on a pool table for a nuclear physicist in Alamogordo New Mexico once, i asked him why he hired me to work on HIS pool table, he replied, "because i don't know shit about a pool table"....."so i hired YOU, because YOU'RE the expert, i just want play pool on a pool table that plays right"

 

[mchnhed]

Mr. Bond, Mr. Chambers I have a couple of questions.....

As a Newbie Ball Banger I am confused by a couple things about cushions that have been brought up.

Inconsistent rails on pool tables are by design?
or
Have Pool Table cushions always been inconsistent and we learned how to adapt as part of the game?

Has 3C always had consistent cushions compared to pool tables?
Even back in the day?

A 3C table with pool cushions would be unpredictable and unplayable, correct?

Would a pool table with 3C cushions be playable but too predictable to be enjoyed?

No wonder Pool is so difficult to play!

 

[J. Chambers]

Feel free to call me tomorrow. I have a family function today.. Ty for your inquiry, Jerimy.

 

[BasementDweller]

Mr Bond said to RKC:
"Might be the most ridiculous thing you've ever uttered Glen."

Nope. He once said he would get at least 70 games off of SVB in 10 Ball playing a race to 100.

All other statements are vying for second.

 

[realkingcobra]

Mr Bond said to RKC:
"Might be the most ridiculous thing you've ever uttered Glen."

Nope. He once said he would get at least 70 games off of SVB in 10 Ball playing a race to 100.

All other statements are vying for second.

Might get 80 games, what's the bet?:thumbup:

 

[mikewhy]

Here's the thing most of you seem to fail to understand, the superspeed cushions are made to the same specs from one set to the next, yet can definitely play different from one table to the next....why is that? Is it the cushions, or the sub rail design that creates the difference in playability? Yet, all of you who judge how the cushions play, good or bad....fail to understand the separation between the two....cushions.....sub rails, then ask if they can be installed on other tables, then comment that the Diamond black cushions play faster....hmmmm, on which sub rail design to they play faster than superspeeds? I'll tell you this, when i calibrate a set of rails to fit the superspeed cushions, i get 5 times the length of the table and 9 rails around....so, are you says the Diamond blacks get more distance, get there faster, I'm lost, please explain.

So, how does one aim that 9 rails around shot?

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[Bob Jewett]

So, how does one aim that 9 rails around shot?
...

Put the cue ball on the headstring about nine inches from the side rail. Hit that side rail about two diamond up from the far corner pocket. The third cushion is the other side rail pretty near the other head pocket. The order is:

side, far end, other side, near end, side, far end, other side, side, near end

On carom tables with new cloth it is possible to get 11 rails when the 8th and 9th rail are in the other order, but I've never seen a pool table go that long or far.