Brush On Finish Water Based or Epoxy

dakota

dakota

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I did a search and there are so many different threads and conflicting opions, on finish that I thought I would ask for help. I am a new cue maker just getting ready to finish up my first couple sneakies to test out my tapers and to test out some basic finish. I would like to eventually be able to spray, but right now I am working in a garage attached to the house and with a family inside I need to make sure I build a good booth or ventalation system first.

I would like to get some advice from users that are currently using or have used either a Water or Epoxy based finish? I do have a heated garage, but I live in North Dakota and in the middle of winter I usually keep the garage at about 50-60 degrees max if that should also be considered with the finish.

I am thinking about using a base or sealer coat of 20 min Atlas finish-cure epoxy as a base and then using something like a Water based finish or Cue Cote or West or something of that sort for the top coats. Any advice from someone that has experience in this area, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

dakota
 
I have used the Water Based Urethanes brushing on and dipping. And I have used the Epoxy Cue Cote finish. The Water Urethane is not as good of a final product, but is much eaiser to use. So it is what I would use for what you are doing between the two choices. But you are going to have to bring that heat up to about 70 or you are going to have problems.
 
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Regarding the temperature issue, my buddy made a simple box containing a light bulb or two that he would lower down over the cue while between centers during the finishing process. The light bulbs produce the heat, the box holds it in, and you can rotate the cue while it cures if you wish. You can drill a couple 1" holes in the top of the box and cover them or leave them open to get just the temperature that you want.
 
hoppe thats almost exactly what i was going to say.

and i use hightowers cue cote, its a real nice epoxy the only thing i dont like about it is the dry time it takes all night i usually will put a cue on the lathe spinning at night and turn it off when i get up the next mroning and hang it, and then it takes another couple days before you can sand it. it works really good on maple always kind makes it look like a nice honey color.

you could try doing a epoxy seal like 20 min, sand it, then a brush on auto clear while its spinning on a lathe to let it level i was thinking of trying that here in a couple days.
 
Trent said:
you could try doing a epoxy seal like 20 min, sand it, then a brush on auto clear while its spinning on a lathe to let it level i was thinking of trying that here in a couple days.
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Wouldn't brushing it cause rings ?
 
It might be best in your present situation to try just the 20min. as a finish. Coat the butt, let it dry and sand level, then do it again. After you have a couple of coats applied and have sanded it perfectly level, buff it out.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Wouldn't brushing it cause rings ?
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i think it would depend on your flash time if you use a slow or cool hardner and it was spinning slowly on a lathe i think it would level out and be fine.

im going to try it this weekend if i have time and let you know:thumbup:
 
Chris,

Have you used a epoxy seal coat below the water based finish before? I know you can build and build the water based finish, but are you better off doing an epoxy seal coat first?

Thanks again for the info..

Spencer

cueman said:
I have used the Water Based Urethanes brushing on and dipping. And I have used the Epoxy Cue Cote finish. The Water Urethane is not as good of a final product, but is much eaiser to use. So it is what I would use for what you are doing between the two choices. But you are goint to have to bring that heat up to about 70 or you are going to have problems.
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dakota said:
Chris,

Have you used a epoxy seal coat below the water based finish before? I know you can build and build the water based finish, but are you better off doing an epoxy seal coat first?

Thanks again for the info..

Spencer
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I do.
I use two coats of epoxy over sealer then 3 coats of Enduro Pre-Cat.
It's a lot of work.
It will make you cry.
 
dakota said:
Chris,

Have you used a epoxy seal coat below the water based finish before? I know you can build and build the water based finish, but are you better off doing an epoxy seal coat first?

Thanks again for the info..

Spencer
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Yes I have used it over a seal coat of epoxy and that speeds you up a little.
I am not sure you are really better off. It would depend on the epoxy and the water based finish. Most epoxies will yellow which makes tham bad for a base coat. The Cue Cote is pretty stable once mixed and applied, but I like the consistancy of other epoxies better for a base coat. Every way you turn when it comes to finishes, you will have pluses and minuses. When someone eliminates all the minuses in a particular finish then I will finally start enjoying finishing cues. But for now it still remains my least favorite part of cue building.
 
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Thank You!!

I just wanted to thank everyone that answered my questions and offered information and advice. I really appreciate everyones williness to share information and help out... I'm sure the advice will save me a ton of headaches along the way.

Thanks again,

Spencer
 
Trent said:
you do this with auto clear???
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I do not use isocyanates , but use epoxies. Finish epoxies are made to be a surface coating system not like a laminating or bonding epoxy.
A friend who does custom fishing rods, uses a similar setup but uses auto clear on the high end handles.
The standard handles just get marine varnish with UV filter.
 
Dakota,

Currently I use Enduro-Var, Great stuff! My process goes like this: I brush (using a black foam brush) on one coat of ATLAS FINISH CURE 20 MINUTE 2 PART EPOXY - let it dry for 24 hours, then lightly sand it with 320 (enough to get it smooth), then I brush on a thin coat of Enduro - wait 10 min, then another thin coat, wait 10 min, then another coat. I let that dry for 24 hours, then sand it by hand with 220 - DO NOT USE the lathe to sand it. Then repeat the process, and then repeat the process again. After 1 coat of Epoxy and 3 of the above steps, I sand it on the lathe starting with 600,then 800,1000,1200,1500,2000, then I use Hightower's Cue Buff twice, and then I use a Carnuba Car Wax that I put on and buff off twice. It comes out great, I love the shine, and so do my customers, it's great and SAFE. If you would like to see some pictures let me know and I will email them to you.
Hope this helps,
Nick
 
For those using the endurovar, how hard is it after curing? Can you dent it with your finger nail just by pressing into it?

Kelly
 
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Arnot Wadsworth said:
I think it is the best finish I have ever seen: http://www.generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-base-topcoats-and-sanding-sealers. It is tough, water clear,
durable. It takes a little time but it is worth it. I am speaking about the Pre-Cat Sealer and Pre-cat clear top coat.
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Could you share your buffing procedure?

I am thinking of trying the water based finish. I have trouble getting rid of those tiny microscopic scratches. I am using epoxy and can't get all of them out. Do you eliminate them in your water based finish??

thanks

Kim
 
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