Brush On Finish Water Based or Epoxy

dakota said:
I did a search and there are so many different threads and conflicting opions, on finish that I thought I would ask for help. I am a new cue maker just getting ready to finish up my first couple sneakies to test out my tapers and to test out some basic finish. I would like to eventually be able to spray, but right now I am working in a garage attached to the house and with a family inside I need to make sure I build a good booth or ventalation system first.

I would like to get some advice from users that are currently using or have used either a Water or Epoxy based finish? I do have a heated garage, but I live in North Dakota and in the middle of winter I usually keep the garage at about 50-60 degrees max if that should also be considered with the finish.

I am thinking about using a base or sealer coat of 20 min Atlas finish-cure epoxy as a base and then using something like a Water based finish or Cue Cote or West or something of that sort for the top coats. Any advice from someone that has experience in this area, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

dakota
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Hi,

The finish on your cue is a very important detail that will make or break you. You must choose a finish that will make your cue look awesome.

You must investigate and experiment with different finishes and buffing techniques. If you are looking to do some easy finish that won't expose you to chemicals, forget it. You,ll just end up with a bad finish and your cue will end up with a bad reputation for a bad finish.

IMO, automotive spray clear coat over a flat sanded epoxy substrate produces a Auto Show Concept Car wet look. Of coarse there are many products to choose from but if you stick with PPG Products you will do well. The hardener for their products come in 15 degree temp ranges and that should be noted.

There are many people in this forum who knock automotive clear because of perceived health issues. If you have a booth with a explosion proof motor, wear the correct mask when you are mixing and spraying your chance of have a health problem is about zero. These products are being used by professional painters on a daily or chronic basis with out any health problems. The problems can occur if you take short cuts or cheat the rules. I also advise to not let your 2 year old play on the expressway! Common sense and awareness goes a long way.

If you act like a professional, following instructions and abide by the MSDS Sheet for guidance you have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you wish to use water born products and such, your cues will fall short of a world class appearance, IMO. It's your choice!!

Rick G
 
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scdiveteam said:
Hi,

The finish on your cue is a very important detail that will make or break you. You must choose a finish that will make your cue look awesome.

You must investigate and experiment with different finishes and buffing techniques. If you are looking to do some easy finish that won't expose you to chemicals, forget it. You,ll just end up with a bad finish and your cue will end up with a bad reputation for a bad finish.

IMO, automotive spray clear coat over a flat sanded epoxy substrate produces a Auto Show Concept Car wet look. Of coarse there are many products to choose from but if you stick with PPG Products you will do well. The hardener for their products come in 15 degree temp ranges and that should be noted.

There are many people in this forum who knock automotive clear because of perceived health issues. If you have a booth with a explosion proof motor, wear the correct mask when you are mixing and spraying your chance of have a health problem is about zero. These products are being used by professional painters on a daily or chronic basis with out any health problems. The problems can occur if you take short cuts or cheat the rules. I also advise to not let your 2 year old play on the expressway! Common sense and awareness goes a long way.

If you act like a professional, following instructions and abide by the MSDS Sheet for guidance you have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you wish to use water born products and such, your cues will fall short of a world class appearance, IMO. It's your choice!!

Rick G
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I agree with most of what you say above; but, your last part "If you wish to use water born products and such, your cues will fall short of a world class appearance" is wrong. Enduro Pre-Cat produces a finish which a equal or better than any finish on the market. It is also much safer to use.
 
Finishes

scdiveteam said:
. If you wish to use water born products and such, your cues will fall short of a world class appearance, IMO. It's your choice!! Rick G
Click to expand...

I don't have a dog in this hunt--actually I could care less what finish anybody uses. With that said, Ferrari, Mercedes and other "world class auto manufacturers" use water borne finishes on their vehicles. Some years ago
this same topic came up and the answers were the same: water borne finishes have come along way and now rival solvent based finishes for clarity and durability. Not to mention ease of use and health issues. General Finishes
Enduro line probably leads the pack.
 
QMAKER said:
I don't have a dog in this hunt--actually I could care less what finish anybody uses. With that said, Ferrari, Mercedes and other "world class auto manufacturers" use water borne finishes on their vehicles. Some years ago
this same topic came up and the answers were the same: water borne finishes have come along way and now rival solvent based finishes for clarity and durability. Not to mention ease of use and health issues. General Finishes
Enduro line probably leads the pack.
Click to expand...

God I hate it when somebody comes on this forum and actually knows what they are talking about. THE TRUTH PREVAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:
 
QMAKER said:
I don't have a dog in this hunt--actually I could care less what finish anybody uses. With that said, Ferrari, Mercedes and other "world class auto manufacturers" use water borne finishes on their vehicles. Some years ago
this same topic came up and the answers were the same: water borne finishes have come along way and now rival solvent based finishes for clarity and durability. Not to mention ease of use and health issues. General Finishes
Enduro line probably leads the pack.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I may have spoken out of my ass on the water born products. I should have said, I have never seen water born system on a cue that I liked.

I am sure I have not seen them all. I stand corrected, and am waiting to see the light.

Rick
 
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

I may have spoken out of my ass on the water born products. I should have said, I have never seen water born system on a cue that I liked.

I am sure I have not seen them all. I stand corrected, and am waiting to see the light.

Rick
Click to expand...

UV's are water born I believe.
In California, all car paints are water based now EXCEPT the clear coat.
 
I'll add my vote for Enduro water bourne finishes, but.....

I use the Enduro Clear Poly because it is water clear. The Enduro-Var and Pre-Cat will both have a slight yellow/amber tint. Although I actually think that looks good in some cases, I'd usually rather have the wood's true color show through.
 
Water Based looks good to me... Many Thanks!!

JoeyInCali said:
I do.
I use two coats of epoxy over sealer then 3 coats of Enduro Pre-Cat.
It's a lot of work.
It will make you cry.
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I have completed my first 4 cues now using General Finishes Water based products following the advice of Joey and others ((THANK YOU)). I have been a long time cue junkie and have owned cues from many top makers and I can honestly say that this finishing process turns out a very good finish. The only reason that I could ever see changing to Auto is that this finish takes a lot of time and patience from start to finish. Mainly just allowing the multiple coats of epoxy to harden and then also allowing the mutiple coats of water based finish enough time to completely cure before buffing. Very good finish, and I'm happy with the end results, but it is just a long finishing process. Since I work on shop that is attached to my family home, I think the health benefits of this finish are more important than saving a little time.

Just the opinion of a newbie....

dakota
 
JoeyInCali said:
UV's are water born I believe.
In California, all car paints are water based now EXCEPT the clear coat.
Click to expand...
Wonder why they exclude the clear coat. Some of the Euro cars are shooting a powder coat finish. But they have to bake the heck out of it to get it to flow. Not compatible with a cue. I don't think the modern car coats are as hard as they used to be. I heard they were modified to be able to be shot on plastic bumpers and not crack. My only worry with water based finish is historic data. You can't find many 5 year old finishes to look at.
Hopefully they will be great. I'll let the other pioneers venture into the frontiers.
 
Bill the Cat said:
I use the Enduro Clear Poly because it is water clear. The Enduro-Var and Pre-Cat will both have a slight yellow/amber tint. Although I actually think that looks good in some cases, I'd usually rather have the wood's true color show through.
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The Enduro Pre Cat Sealer and Clear Top Coat that I have been using for about 1 year are water clear also.
 
Not according to Jeff Jewitt

Arnot Wadsworth said:
The Enduro Pre Cat Sealer and Clear Top Coat that I have been using for about 1 year are water clear also.
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I contacted Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Finishes when I originally saw this post. Here is the text of the message he sent back to me when I asked about the Enduro Pre-Cat compared to the Enduro Clear Poly that I have been using.

"The Clear Poly is the clearest and almost as tough as the PreCat. If you add the cross-linker to the Poly it's tougher. The PreCat has a slight yellow cast and as such isn't recommended over whites and pastel paints as well as light woods that you want to keep clear. "
 
cueman said:
What is the shelf life on the pre cat Enduro products? Will they survive months in a dipping tube?
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We do not recommend dipping any urethane top coat because it is impossible to control the mill thickness. Also there would be all kinds of contaminates finding their way into the tube.
 
Arnot Wadsworth said:
We do not recommend dipping any urethane top coat because it is impossible to control the mill thickness. Also there would be all kinds of contaminates finding their way into the tube.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your opinion on tube and dipping, but what would be an estimate on the shelf life.
 
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