Buddy Hall "Tuck & Roll"

After reading the posts made while I was drinking coffee & pecking out my post I'd like to add something I don't know about tuck & roll but have heard said.

I can't remember who said it but it was someone that supposedly knows Buddy that said, when he originally coined the phrase it was to mean tuck the cue & roll the ball as in outside english.

That's just something that I have heard & don't know if it's true or not as that would seem to imply only in one direction.

Sorry for the distractive detour

Best 2 All.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
And yet I've probably tested more things than you've thought of, including this.


So instead of learning to stroke straight your solution is to stroke crooked on purpose? OK...

pj
chgo
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You've only tested things in a sterile calm environment. Not the same when the nerves are jangling because of the amount of money on the line or wanting to win a tournament badly. You have NEVER been there and done it, NEVER.

Everybody has learned how to stroke straight but it can't always be done in action packed situations. You end up stroking crooked and it can't be helped even by pros dogging easy shots.

I didn't expect you to get this and even if you did it would be fodder for you to do your usual crap.
 
ENGLISH! said:
After reading the posts made while I was drinking coffee & pecking out my post I'd like to add something I don't know about tuck & roll but have heard said.

I can't remember who said it but it was someone that supposedly knows Buddy that said, when he originally coined the phrase it was to mean tuck the cue & roll the ball as in outside english.

That's just something that I have heard & don't know if it's true or not.

Best 2 All.
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NO, that's not it at all. When you TUCK the fingers, knuckles and back of the hand roll under with the wrist bowing outward. When you ROLL the fingers, knuckles, and back of the hand turn upward producing a wrinkled crease in the wrist.
 
I think some confusion is created by the term "tuck and roll" when you really mean"tuck or roll". You don't really use both at the same time. It's one or the other.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
You've only tested things in a sterile calm environment. Not the same when the nerves are jangling because of the amount of money on the line or wanting to win a tournament badly. You have NEVER been there and done it, NEVER.
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I've never gambled or played in tournaments?

lol

I think you might have been stalking the wrong person.

pj
chgo

P.S. It's "spatial". You were probably thinking of "special".
 
Patrick Johnson said:
To me, that's an out-of-control stroke.

pj
chgo
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Why don't you tell that to what were & still are some of the best players in the world.

Some athletes can do things that others can not, especially book worms.

Perhaps you should look up the definition of athlete & come to the realization that while pool may be considered a game vs a sport by some, it is not a board game.

You may be able to explain the physics regarding a curve ball in baseball (& then again, maybe not) BUT... can you throw one? AND better yet, do you know the technique to assist in hitting one?

One can go to school to be a plumber, graduate & then get a job & not know any of the 'tricks of the trade' until the 'mechanics' show them to them.

You're like that line in that song, 'you're still playing with paper back dolls, come back 'baby'... when grow up.'.

Have a Great Day, Patrick & enjoy your Level 3 or 4 associations.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I've never gambled or played in tournaments?

lol

I think you might have been stalking the wrong person.

pj
chgo

P.S. It's "spatial". You were probably thinking of "special".
Click to expand...

You have in fact stated that you don't gamble, If so, what's the largest amount?
(this should be the biggest lie of the century coming up next)

Played in tournaments? My mistake, you have played in some DINKY mean nothing tournaments with guys who were on RSB out in Chicago.
 
OK. As Buddy explains in one of his later videos, and explained to me which I also have on video somewhere, tuck and roll is not something you conscientiously do on purpose. He also says that is something he should have explained in the Clock video. "If you are applying english correctly, your wrist will tuck and roll naturally". I believe I am quoting him correctly. Don't force your wrist to do it. It will do it on its own.

I have all my videos out and am converting them to digital. When I run across this again, I will post it. I also saw Sigel and Ewa Mataya doing it about that same time frame when I was seeing Buddy. I would have taken lessons from Sigel too but he was too egotistical about it. Wanted like $700 an hour or some such. No thanks.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
NO, that's not it at all. When you TUCK the fingers, knuckles and back of the hand roll under with the wrist bowing outward. When you ROLL the fingers, knuckles, and back of the hand turn upward producing a wrinkled crease in the wrist.
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I know that, Dave.

I was just relaying what someone said (I can't remember who) that said that they personally know Buddy & that is what he said he first meant when he coined the phrase.

If you think about the tuck the fingers & roll the fingers. that does fit so well together.

They fit a bit better with the wrist. Tuck the wrist, Roll the wrist.

Tuck & Roll does sort of fit the tuck the whatever & roll the ball with outside english.

I know that is NOT what it now means. I was just relaying a story that I had heard about it.

Best Wishes.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
I think some confusion is created by the term "tuck and roll" when you really mean"tuck or roll". You don't really use both at the same time. It's one or the other.
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And that lend credence to the story that was told that when he first coined 'Tuck AND Roll' that is was about tucking whatever & rolling the cue out or around with outside english.

It's no big deal. We know what it now means.
 
Has anyone else noticed the change of tone went bad in this thread once
'the mind of science' was introduced into it?
 
I took some lessons from a fellow at Magoos, in Tulsa. Great player. He showed me that inside out or outside in stroke. Told me to practice it, until my shaft didn't move more than the width of a dime, either way.

I been playing too long to adopt some new ways, I just wanted to tighten my way of doing things.
 
ceebee said:
I took some lessons from a fellow at Magoos, in Tulsa. Great player. He showed me that inside out or outside in stroke. Told me to practice it, until my shaft didn't move more than the width of a dime, either way.

I been playing too long to adopt some new ways, I just wanted to tighten my way of doing things.
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I wish my 'straight' stroke had that little variance.:eek:


ps: nice talking to you the other day...I appreciate your time. It helped make a smooth deal. Thanks
 
There's another way to look at this spin thing...
...try thinking with the tip.
I like to let the tip go with the spin...and I don't care what my arm does to do that.

Control the cue, not your arm.

It was PJ who told me years ago that what I was doing is BHE....I didn't have a name for it.
....but that's from a different point of view.

I aim closer to center and get more spin than players who cue near the edge.
 
Question/observation:

It appears that this method adds a bit of longitudinal shaft axis rotation (slight shaft spin) to the tip as it strikes the cb. (icbw)/(via 'rolling' the wrist')

Is there any effect on the cb, other than normal 'side english', whether applied via swiped or parallel methods? Any other cb axis twist? (doubtlful given the very short contact time)

I don't have this shot..but I would guess that applying outside english this way would be easier than inside, in trying to maintain the original shot line delivery of the cue....but IDK.

thanks
 
I've always taught tuck and roll and was very happy when I watched Buddy' video and heard him explain it. I thought I was alone for about 5yrs or so as nobody had taught it to me but I knew I like to hit some shots like that and noticed other good players were doing (many unknowingly).

I don't know if its right, wrong or why it works but I have recommended it to some players when they couldn't execute certain shots I was teaching them. One in particular shot that I think may even be in that Buddy video is CB on the spot and object ball on first diamond near corner pocket on opposite side of the table and have them draw back with spin past the opposite side.

One theory I have is that some people don't have very much snap or power when it comes to having a straight wrist, especially short wristed people. If I hold my wrist straight just sitting here and try to move it back and then forward to see how much snap or power I have it it doesn't come close to the power I have if I tuck my wrist in a lot. I think when tucked in or rolled out my forearm also turns a lil to generate even more power.

Definitely shouldn't or doesn't have to be written off as do or don't do and should be added as a recommended method to try. Some people have a lot of snap and power with straight wrist, some don't. I would use a hammer with a straight wrist but that's the opposite direction of a pool stroke and the hammer head giving me momentum. If I had to snap a towel using a pool stroke motion I would definite use the Tuck technique.

Ps I don't think it adds any more spin than a straight wrist hitting the same spot on the cb, just think it adds more power which keeps the spin on the cb longer.
 
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