Building A First Cue

Here's what I tell people when they ask me; Give me $20,000 and let me either punch you in the stomach, kick you in the groin, or a boot to your butt once every day for two years. Then, I'll give you $10,000 back.

Yes, its meant to be funny but do not make the same mistake as other before you. Start small and learn how to repair cues. Find out why they are assembled, as opposed to how they are assembled. What significance does each componant play? Experiment. Learn. Repeat. Never stop learning, no matter how much you think you know.

Any monkey can buy a book, videos, wood, a lathe, and make a cue. That doesn't mean the monkey knows what he is doing.


(Hightower's book is good.)
 
I'm just beginning - been that way for a year or so - but I say GO FOR IT!

For me, there is a LOT of satisfaction in working on a project and at the end of the day, you can see progress. That project may not be turning/shaping a piece of wood. It might be trueing lathe jaws, or turning collets, or building a lathe power feed (more than a "day" project) but my point is there are a LOT of ancillary projects (and hence learning) that go into cue building. Another challenge that comes to mind is finishing. There's a lot to be learned in that aspect alone.

Chris Hightower's book is the bible around here. It's true that "any monkey can read a book", but if you don't have some guidance and techniques to try out in the shop, you can get very frustrated at the results.

Equipment-wise, yes you will continue to spend a LOT of money on equipment as you go down the road. Listen to what is said in here. These guys have all spent a lot of money, and wasted a lot of money on non-productive stuff. They are very helpful and willing to help you avoid the mistakes that they have made.

Enjoy!

Gary
 
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BarenbruggeCues said:
I don't mean to be controversial (maybe a little) but Abe Rich built cues on a wood lathe for over half his life. Quite a few of them also....He was in his early 80's when he went to the big pool hall in sky.
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I knew that if I mentioned, not to try & use a wood lathe, someone would say that it is possible. I'm trying to help somebody here. If you think this is the way for him to start, then I would really like to see you explain to him how to go about making cues, with a wood lathe & the other equipment he will be needing. Then if you could, maybe you could explain to him the advantages of thiese methods & why he should use the wood lathe over a modern day cue making lathe. Maybe I'm just a little cranky this morning, but anybody can throw out a bit of trivia & then duck back into your little hole. If you can answer this guys questions & try & help him, please do. I'm just sick of this bullshit that prevails here. I try to be helpful & pass along some small bits of information, that I have learned in the last 26 years of building cues & there is always someone waiting to pounce on the thread & sidetrack the thing without trying to help. Sorry, but I'm through with this shit...JER
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
I don't mean to be controversial (maybe a little) but Abe Rich built cues on a wood lathe for over half his life. Quite a few of them also....He was in his early 80's when he went to the big pool hall in sky.
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Yes and no. If you watched him work he was good but could not really make the same thing twice except by chance. If a cue butt got too thin then so be it and it would just be a skinny cue. I saw him once taking down a butt with a belt sander as it was spinning on the lathe and doing the taper just by feel. He could not really make a cue to order like any cue maker working today can. They all came out different and the end result pretty much by chance. He also made shafts on a centerless grinder not his lathe. He just roughed them out on the wood lathe. Lets be honest here, you can't really build a quality cue on a wood lathe alone.

I should add also, except as an interesting project to build one cue for ones self just to see if you can do it. It would represent such a pain in the a$$ you would never make a second one. If you truly had an interest in working with cues you would immediately be looking for a better way. I am not sure a wood lathe is even a good starting point. It won't teach you or awake you to the principles required to build cues. That fact that it is a lathe does not make it suitable for building cues anymore then buying a break lathe to build cues. To even remotely make a wood lathe useful you would need a whole host of attachments and jigs to expand it's capabilities. There is the catch 22, at that point you might just as well get the correct machine.

I am not trying to embarrass you or argue with you. Just, I knew Abe and saw how he worked. There is a lot of misconceptions about what he did. He was not the old world craftsman working with traditional tools making heirlooms. He was a wood turner who used his talents to make cues as best he could. Some were good and some not so good. The annoying thing about him was his resistance to change. His brother owned Rich wood turning and Abe had access to the most modern machines yet would not go near them. He was a wood turner, he liked it that way and not a "machine does the work" kind of guy. He wanted his fingerprints on his work. Plus, he liked doing what he was doing, he wasn't interested in what others thought.
 
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BLACKHEARTCUES said:
I knew that if I mentioned, not to try & use a wood lathe, someone would say that it is possible. I'm trying to help somebody here. If you think this is the way for him to start, then I would really like to see you explain to him how to go about making cues, with a wood lathe & the other equipment he will be needing. Then if you could, maybe you could explain to him the advantages of thiese methods & why he should use the wood lathe over a modern day cue making lathe. Maybe I'm just a little cranky this morning, but anybody can throw out a bit of trivia & then duck back into your little hole. If you can answer this guys questions & try & help him, please do. I'm just sick of this bullshit that prevails here. I try to be helpful & pass along some small bits of information, that I have learned in the last 26 years of building cues & there is always someone waiting to pounce on the thread & sidetrack the thing without trying to help. Sorry, but I'm through with this shit...JER
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A little cranky........? I think you're a lot cranky. You made a statement that wasn't true and now you get all pissed about it because someone has contested it?. I'm not disputing you then ducking back in some hole, I'm here to tell you that your statement was flat ass wrong. If you can't take the heat for being wrong then maybe you should just be out of here and leave the answers to people that know facts. Just like you, I too, get sick of the bullshit that people spew out on the forum and expect the world to believe it like the gospel.
I never said that a wood lathe was the best way. All I'm saying was it has been done and is being done today. End of story.
The problem with cranky, closed minded, people is a lot of them think their way is the only way just because they've done it that way for X number of years.
Get over yourself......
 
macguy said:
Yes and no. If you watched him work he was good but could not really make the same thing twice except by chance. If a cue butt got too thin then so be it and it would just be a skinny cue. I saw him once taking down a butt with a belt sander as it was spinning on the lathe and doing the taper just by feel. He could not really make a cue to order like any cue maker working today can. They all came out different and the end result pretty much by chance. He also made shafts on a centerless grinder not his lathe. He just roughed them out on the wood lathe. Lets be honest here, you can't really build a quality cue on a wood lathe alone.

I should add also, except as an interesting project to build one cue for ones self just to see if you can do it. It would represent such a pain in the a$$ you would never make a second one. If you truly had an interest in working with cues you would immediately be looking for a better way. I am not sure a wood lathe is even a good starting point. It won't teach you or awake you to the principles required to build cues. That fact that it is a lathe does not make it suitable for building cues anymore then buying a break lathe to build cues. To even remotely make a wood lathe useful you would need a whole host of attachments and jigs to expand it's capabilities. There is the catch 22, at that point you might just as well get the correct machine.

I am not trying to embarrass you or argue with you. Just, I knew Abe and saw how he worked. There is a lot of misconceptions about what he did. He was not the old world craftsman working with traditional tools making heirlooms. He was a wood turner who used his talents to make cues as best he could. Some were good and some not so good. The annoying thing about him was his resistance to change. His brother owned Rich wood turning and Abe had access to the most modern machines yet would not go near them. He was a wood turner, he liked it that way and not a "machine does the work" kind of guy. He wanted his fingerprints on his work. Plus, he liked doing what he was doing, he wasn't interested in what others thought.
Click to expand...

I never said Abe was a perfectionist. You're right....even he called himself a wood turner that built cues. Some of his construction techniques were atrocious but it worked for him and a hell of a lot of his customers. Most modern day cue people would look at him and his shop as a primitive tool of the past but I believe there was a lot more to Abe than most people would ever understand.
As far as his construction techniques....at one point when he lost power for extended period of time from a hurricane, did that stop him from working? He pulled out a small hand hatchet and started to whittle the corners off his shaft blanks to rough them round.
Most guys today would stand around with their thumbs in their ass wondering what time the flippin power company was going to get the damn power turned back on so they could quit drinking coffee, watching TV and get back to work.
Embarrass me as you see fit.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
I never said Abe was a perfectionist. You're right....even he called himself a wood turner that built cues. Some of his construction techniques were atrocious but it worked for him and a hell of a lot of his customers. Most modern day cue people would look at him and his shop as a primitive tool of the past but I believe there was a lot more to Abe than most people would ever understand.
As far as his construction techniques....at one point when he lost power for extended period of time from a hurricane, did that stop him from working? He pulled out a small hand hatchet and started to whittle the corners off his shaft blanks to rough them round.
Most guys today would stand around with their thumbs in their ass wondering what time the flippin power company was going to get the damn power turned back on so they could quit drinking coffee, watching TV and get back to work.
Embarrass me as you see fit.
Click to expand...

I am at a little bit of a loss to understand the point of your post other then I guess you feel the need to defend yourself. Abe was a great guy and he made cues, but there is no need to make more of him then he was. Or no need to use his memory to try to downgrade todays hard working current cue makers. Abe by the way, was just as likely to want to sit around drinking tea and having a danish then working if the mood moved him.

I heard Danny DiLiberto say something once after hearing yet another outrageous story about Johnny Irish.

"You know, the longer he is dead the better he plays".
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
A little cranky........? I think you're a lot cranky. You made a statement that wasn't true and now you get all pissed about it because someone has contested it?. I'm not disputing you then ducking back in some hole, I'm here to tell you that your statement was flat ass wrong. If you can't take the heat for being wrong then maybe you should just be out of here and leave the answers to people that know facts. Just like you, I too, get sick of the bullshit that people spew out on the forum and expect the world to believe it like the gospel.
I never said that a wood lathe was the best way. All I'm saying was it has been done and is being done today. End of story.
The problem with cranky, closed minded, people is a lot of them think their way is the only way just because they've done it that way for X number of years.
Get over yourself......
Click to expand...


I got to say, you are def coming off as just trying to start crap for no good reason.

The OP was asking for advice on starting out making cues. Blackheart gave some very sound advice that was very appropriate to the conversation at hand. You had to go in and basically take one statement out of context and try and make something out of it. Yes I know that in a quote he says " you cannot build cues on a wood lathe", but if you read the post as a whole it is VERY clear what is meant. The real statement that is so plain to see, it is absurd is : "Even though a wood lathe is a lathe and does turn wood down, it is far from the best option, and anyone with any sense who is starting out to buld cues today would never even consider this option."

I would love to hear from anyone who missed this message that was loud and clear and expounded upon in the context of that post.

The major difference between his post and yours is that it was addressed to the original poster and directly addressed the questions asked with actual constructive information. It was intended to be on point and helpful. Yours are being petty and argumentitive.

When advice on a topic is asked for, do you think that the person asking is looking for LEAST efficient way of doing things? OR do you think possibly the intent is to save themselves some headaches and trouble? If I told you I know a guy who whittles cues out of tree trunks with a swiss army knife, would you suggest this as a proper method of building cues? Would you change your methods to be more like his? Would you recommend this to a brand new cuemaker? If a customer came to you and requested you to make them a cue on a standard wood lathe, would you? Also, Abe rich is not building cues today, so who is still currently building cues on a wood lathe? I would honestly like to know the answer. Are they making more than 5 cues a year? More importantly, are they making a living doing it this way? Does chris hightower"s book or videos discuss building cues on a wood lathe? Why not?:rolleyes: I think we all know the answer.


The OP was looking for usable information, not trivia. One of you was giving useful info, the other wasn't. Wonder which is which? Yet YOU want to get on a soapbox and criticize and point fingers.:thumbup: Good luck with that!

Give me a break.



Jw
 
No soap box....unless you put someone there.
Do you know the OP's budget for getting started?
Why would you feel he should only hear one side of the story in getting started? If the wood lathe isn't for him I'm sure he he'll dismiss it and move on.
The fact is, there was a statement that was made that was wrong and all I did was point that out and the poster gets all pissy about it.
Again nobody said that BH's advice wasn't sound either. Just not entirely correct that's all. Just pointed out a small variance in opinions.
So go ahead....everybody jump on your best buddies band wagon and fight in his defense for his honor.
Sometimes it may be a little trivia that gives you the correct answer in the end. But a close minded person wouldn't understand that.
I didn't give BH cues any more crap than he did with his little 6 yr old attitude spout off.
So who's being argumentative?
You don't need to answer that but to yourself because it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
Yes, it is all about help here.....some people are just too closed minded to understand that.

9Ball, don't let any of this deter you from chasing what you feel you may like to do. Just don't be as closed minded as some when you make your decisions or you may get yourself trapped in box and can't get out.
Whatever direction you go if and when you start out. Be prepared to spent more money than you ever have. It's a never ending endeavor.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
I never said Abe was a perfectionist. You're right....even he called himself a wood turner that built cues. Some of his construction techniques were atrocious but it worked for him and a hell of a lot of his customers. Most modern day cue people would look at him and his shop as a primitive tool of the past but I believe there was a lot more to Abe than most people would ever understand.
As far as his construction techniques....at one point when he lost power for extended period of time from a hurricane, did that stop him from working? He pulled out a small hand hatchet and started to whittle the corners off his shaft blanks to rough them round.
Most guys today would stand around with their thumbs in their ass wondering what time the flippin power company was going to get the damn power turned back on so they could quit drinking coffee, watching TV and get back to work.
Embarrass me as you see fit.
Click to expand...
I don't want to belabor the point but here is the bottom line on Abe Rich as I knew him. Abe was a wood turner. Few wood turners can even make a living. Most make bowls and vases they sell through consignment shops, craft fairs and so on. Abe found something he could make that people actually bought and he decided to specialize in it. I don't even recall Abe ever mentioning if he played pool. The cues were just a means to an end although I think he did enjoyed making them.
 
I was told by his nephew he never shot a game in his life. Many claim his cues are some of better playing cues they own.
 
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Wow, things are getting crazy on here! I just wanted to wish you luck and say go for it.
Im hoping to go for it myself, I have been buying blanks, wood, stock, ferrules, glues, sandpapers, drill bits, etc, etc....for the past 2 yrs.
Also talk to some of these guys on here, I was hard and heavy into it about 2 yrs ago and ready to start and Willee of WilleeCues invited me to come to his shop in Corpus, but I got into a lil trouble and anyway, 2 yrs later Im back and want to begin building too. I have read Hightowers book 3-4 times, and watched Joe Barringer's videos a dozen times, even thought about attending his cue school.
(Hey what has happened to Willee & Joe, I dont see or hear anything from them on here like I used to...just curious)
So anyway from one hopeful cue builder to another, good luck and I will look for your name out there.

Anyone have a Hightower Lathe they are needing to unload?? (I know I know, check the wanted/for sale threads LOL :thumbup:
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
No soap box....unless you put someone there.
Do you know the OP's budget for getting started?
Why would you feel he should only hear one side of the story in getting started? If the wood lathe isn't for him I'm sure he he'll dismiss it and move on.
The fact is, there was a statement that was made that was wrong and all I did was point that out and the poster gets all pissy about it.
Again nobody said that BH's advice wasn't sound either. Just not entirely correct that's all. Just pointed out a small variance in opinions.
So go ahead....everybody jump on your best buddies band wagon and fight in his defense for his honor.
Sometimes it may be a little trivia that gives you the correct answer in the end. But a close minded person wouldn't understand that.
I didn't give BH cues any more crap than he did with his little 6 yr old attitude spout off.
So who's being argumentative?
You don't need to answer that but to yourself because it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
Yes, it is all about help here.....some people are just too closed minded to understand that.

9Ball, don't let any of this deter you from chasing what you feel you may like to do. Just don't be as closed minded as some when you make your decisions or you may get yourself trapped in box and can't get out.
Whatever direction you go if and when you start out. Be prepared to spent more money than you ever have. It's a never ending endeavor.
Click to expand...

I am not a friend of blackheart. Never met him or spoke with him. Just reading the thread with no pevious bias for or against anyone. I just call em like I see em.

So are you going to answer the questions? Who is currently making cues with this mehod? You want to take people to task about their comments being incorrect ( even when taken out of context).

So you made a clear statement that people still do this. So let's hear it? Names?
 
poolpro said:
I am not a friend of blackheart. Never met him or spoke with him. Just reading the thread with no pevious bias for or against anyone. I just call em like I see em.

So are you going to answer the questions? Who is currently making cues with this mehod? You want to take people to task about their comments being incorrect ( even when taken out of context).

So you made a clear statement that people still do this. So let's hear it? Names?
Click to expand...

Give it up studley...you're showin your ass and blowin smoke in the wrong place.
Go back to the shop and whittle on your wood.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Give it up studley...you're showin your ass and blowin smoke in the wrong place.
Go back to the shop and whittle on your wood.
Click to expand...


Many questions have been directly asked of you. Not one answer given. Just more personal attacks.

I find it ironic that your main insult is to call people closed minded and you give advice to not get stuck in a box, etc. Yet you seem to show a great deal of respect to abe rich who a friend of his has stated that abe was very much stuck in doing things a certain way even when he had other options. Kind of interesting. I mean no disrespect to abe in the slightest. I have met him personally, been to his shop and have bought a cue from him. I still have a very old abe rich cue presently.


Just so it does not get lost or muddied up with more distractions---

The MAIN point is even though it IS possible to build a cue on a standard wood lathe, would it be YOUR recommendation to someone with no experience to go about starting out in this manner? A simple yes or no would suffice.


Yes, or no?
 
Any monkey can buy a book, videos, wood, a lathe, and make a cue.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, that splains why I've been craving bananas lately.

I love watching the UTube vids of Bebot. Hes an amazing artisan. And to watch his son chisel inlay pockets by hand with hand made carvers chisels is pretty wild too.

It can be an expensive proposition when all is said and done, whether its just a hobby or a job.
Don't let that deter you as theres many more expensive hobbys out there.
Theres a couple of guys on here that sell high quality repair and building lathes that are quite reasonably priced. You might want to start off with a small repair lathe and build up from there if you decide to stick with it. If not, you'll always have a small lathe to do maintenance on your cues.
I'm not overly busy wher I live with repairs, its kinda like feast or famine but I make some spending money. So, as they say where I come from, "Its better than a kick in the ass with a frozen muk luk".
 
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I think people forget that how one starts building cues depends alot on previous knoledge and skills. Cue making is a combination of many skills.
I came into building as a poolplayer and Machinist so my approach was different then say someone who came from a woodworking background. I wasnt even considering the hobby equipment when I started because I was already accustomed to working with industrial equipment. Is this the approach I would recomend? Not necessarily, if someone was completley green then the hobby stuff is probably a good start simply because it doesnt pose as big a danger to getting hurt. If someone has been turning spindles on a wood lath for 20 years then I wouldnt discourage him from trying to build a cue on a wood lathe. What is a cue? A stick which is tuned down to taper and usualy is made of of more than one type of wood laminated together. If you work around the joint it is quite possible to build "A" cue. Now if someone wanted to build multiple cues and build to industrial standards of today then doing things in a modern fashion is probably a better way to go. As a side note the one thing I liked about building cues was that there wasnt much info on how to do it. So you were forced to be creative and find ways of getting the job done, building jigs, fixtures and developing your own processes. It forced you to learn the why's as well as the how's. If you start out doing things verbatim as you read on someones website or book I think this stifiles your ability to be a great cuebuilder with something original to offer. But this is only an opinion, each to there own.
 
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its not cheap

about the time i started building cues, a buddy started restoring antique porsche's, he has spent less money than i have.
 
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