Buy/hold/sell.your cues

Im not so optimistic about cues as it seems that for the past decade pool in the usa is in a nosedive with no prospects of getting much better. ive been selling the past five years and not holding or buying. My decision to sell came mostly from a desire to simplify the end of life decisions for my family even though I feel fine. The market has been bad for so long that I just made the decision to sell and not dwell on how much I paid for the cues. Im down to just a handful of cues now but im expecting a lot of pain when I do finally deal them. early 70s joss cues, joss wests and a bender. I almost did a deal recently to sell them all really cheap to one guy but the price made it easy to just walk away when the buyer made the transaction difficult.

The easiest cues that I sold recently were my one piece titlists. Rarity will always sell I guess, its a shame that 99% of the cues out there for sale are not very rare. imo this is going to be a bloodbath eventually, similar to beanie babies and baseball cards, although in those two cases things were in a pricing bubble that eventually burst. Im not sure I would place cuesticks into a bubble category since we never saw much general public speculation. Especially since every day more and more cues hit the market but the actual demand for cues in the USA continues to get smaller and smaller with fewer players who will spend a lot on a cue.

The cue dealers on here im sure have a good finger to the pulse of cue sales. They might not want to speak up about what they actually see though.
 
I would never collect cues on the thought of selling and making a profit. If I had the money I would collect cues for the enjoyment of it. There are at least 10 cues I would buy right now if I had money to do so. Cues are like works of art to me.
 
uwate said:
Im not so optimistic about cues as it seems that for the past decade pool in the usa is in a nosedive with no prospects of getting much better. ive been selling the past five years and not holding or buying. My decision to sell came mostly from a desire to simplify the end of life decisions for my family even though I feel fine. The market has been bad for so long that I just made the decision to sell and not dwell on how much I paid for the cues. Im down to just a handful of cues now but im expecting a lot of pain when I do finally deal them. early 70s joss cues, joss wests and a bender. I almost did a deal recently to sell them all really cheap to one guy but the price made it easy to just walk away when the buyer made the transaction difficult.

The easiest cues that I sold recently were my one piece titlists. Rarity will always sell I guess, its a shame that 99% of the cues out there for sale are not very rare. imo this is going to be a bloodbath eventually, similar to beanie babies and baseball cards, although in those two cases things were in a pricing bubble that eventually burst. Im not sure I would place cuesticks into a bubble category since we never saw much general public speculation. Especially since every day more and more cues hit the market but the actual demand for cues in the USA continues to get smaller and smaller with fewer players who will spend a lot on a cue.

The cue dealers on here im sure have a good finger to the pulse of cue sales. They might not want to speak up about what they actually see though.
Click to expand...

I'm with you 100%.
 
I think the market is about the same on a local level, especially with some of the younger guys that have money to spend on cues.
Many of the older guys have retired or backed off, passed away, and large collections are trickling into the market.
Here on AZ things have been stagnant for a long time, and I blame that on several factors in the WFS, but the market isn't that bad in general.

Cuemakers are busy, times are good, good time to sell, or buy, especially buy
 
As with all of my "collections", I only add when prices are down and sell
when demand is high. Fortunately for me, the majority of my "collectables"
were acquired decades ago at rock bottom prices. The current pre-owned
Cue Market is ripe-for-the-picking, with exceptionally low asking prices for,
otherwise, "spendy" Cues. My current Cue Collection will be divided between
my Son and Grandson, as will all of my personal possessions. Let's just say
neither of them should ever "go broke".

If you have the Cash and are so-inclined ... NOW is the time to build a Cue Collection.
 
Last edited:
This is definitely the time to buy quality cues. Unfortunately, there nothing available to buy because no one is selling them or can sell them unless they are unloading at a price they know is well below the market value. There are definitely buyers out there for some of the branded and market tested cues as I've sold most of my SW cues and a few older collectible cues for fairly decent prices.

Today buyers are more knowledgeable about cues than ever before and most of them buy collectible/branded cues as investment although there are still buyers out there looking for the ultimate playing cues but they are generally the local buyers that have an opportunity to test the cue out.

Buyer today will search on Google, Ebay and research historical Az listing for prices of collectible cues. The world for collectible cues in not all that big and that's really one of the problem for liquidity on cues. Hugh inventory, Economic recession, low demand for cues mean..that prices for cues will always be lower until one of the variable changes. If the economy get better and people have more cash to spend...prices for cues will naturally goes up....so if you see a good cue value below market price...grab it. You can't go wrong...and the best part...you can play with it until the market mood changes.

In this market right now, even if the cue is branded and desirable....it may be a hard sell if you have a premium price tag on the cue. As I'm sure you've seem some of the listing on ebay and some listed here on AZ including my own 100000 cue for sales :).

Problem with the cue market right now is price precedent, if one person sell a $5000 cue for $2500.....don't expect the next person to shell out anything more because they'll use that as a bench mark for the next cue. You see this with a lot of quality top tier builder cues where their prices have been hacked to death and never seem to recover.

Likewise, the reverse is also true where someone might sell a cue for more than its really worth (Dare I say pretend to sell or Fake Sales?), even some justifiable quality cues will sell for much more than it should. Once the price is inflated, it will eventually have an artificial price tag and the last buyer caught with these cues will be the bag holders or someone that really love the cue for what it is and not sell it.

If you have a desirable cue on the market, price right, it will sell. Eg. If you have any 6 pts southwest cue for under 2K, I'm a buyer all day long. Of course, this won't work with many other cues. Schon and Mezz production cues move pretty good...again at the right prices.

Happy Holidays!!
 
Last edited:
Cuemaster98 said:
This is definitely the time to buy quality cues. Unfortunately, there nothing available to buy because no one is selling them or can sell them unless they are unloading at a price they know is well below the market value. There are definitely buyers out there for some of the branded and market tested cues as I've sold most of my SW cues and a few older collectible cues for fairly decent prices.

Today buyers are more knowledgeable about cues than ever before and most of them buy collectible/branded cues as investment although there are still buyers out there looking for the ultimate playing cues but they are generally the local buyers that have an opportunity to test the cue out.

Buyer today will search on Google, Ebay and research historical Az listing for prices of collectible cues. The world for collectible cues in not all that big and that's really one of the problem for liquidity on cues. Hugh inventory, Economic recession, low demand for cues mean..that prices for cues will always be lower until one of the variable changes. If the economy get better and people have more cash to spend...prices for cues will naturally goes up....so if you see a good cue value below market price...grab it. You can't go wrong...and the best part...you can play with it until the market mood changes.

In this market right now, even if the cue is branded and desirable....it may be a hard sell if you have a premium price tag on the cue. As I'm sure you've seem some of the listing on ebay and some listed here on AZ including my own 100000 cue for sales :).

Problem with the cue market right now is price precedent, if one person sell a $5000 cue for $2500.....don't expect the next person to shell out anything more because they'll use that as a bench mark for the next cue. You see this with a lot of quality top tier builder cues where their prices have been hacked to death and never seem to recover.

Likewise, the reverse is also true where someone might sell a cue for more than its really worth (Dare I say pretend to sell or Fake Sales?), even some justifiable quality cues will sell for much more than it should. Once the price is inflated, it will eventually have an artificial price tag and the last buyer caught with these cues will be the bag holders or someone that really love the cue for what it is and not sell it.

If you have a desirable cue on the market, price right, it will sell. Eg. If you have any 6 pts southwest cue for under 2K, I'm a buyer all day long. Of course, this won't work with many other cues. Schon and Mezz production cues move pretty good...again at the right prices.

Happy Holidays!!
Click to expand...

If your price is higher than what you can sell it for, then the market is not too low - your price is too high. That is the very definition of what a market is - a price discovery mechanism. Its worth what someone will pay, nothing else including the price in your own mind. Maybe an online auction house allows for efficient price discovery??
 
cuesblues said:
Here on AZ things have been stagnant for a long time, and I blame that on several factors in the WFS
Click to expand...

That's VERY interesting. I remember when I was a kid my father explaining that the Great Depression was really a mental state that became a popular reality. A loss of confidence. Depression, is just that, depression, and depression is not much more than having one's bad feelings take precedence. Guys on AZ where complaining about "the cue market" when I thought times were pretty good. Then more guys were complaining, and then everyone was complaining.

I think we talked ourselves right into a Cue Depression here on AZ.

As you point out, the top tier makers still have life-time waiting lists, raise their prices and sell everything they make. The buyers are for sure still there and active. Its our community perception that says they are not.
 
There's been lots of great points made. The marketplace has always had historical highs and lows.
This current market is at its low or thereabout.Even in this market, certain cue-makers are still in "high" demand.
The cue in question needs to be a Level 5 or higher rated cue and it also has to be in at least very good condition.

When the cue-maker is no longer making cues or has a wait of 3 yrs or longer.
When the cue-maker has a heralded reputation for quality cues.
When the market isn't flooded with cues made by this same cue-maker.
When you buy your cues intelligently, not emotionally, in the resale market.
When you are able to take advantage of these conditions, you will not lose.

I have photos of my Scruggs cue and Mottey cues in the Cue Gallery, I can very easily sell them for what I paid for them and
if I miss the mark, which is very, very unlikely, it wouldn't be by much. And in all likelihood, I'd realizea profit on the sale of those
cues. How many times can you buy something, use it, and then sell it for what you paid for it and maybe even make a profit?
How many pool cues can you do that with........not lose any money or hardly any or maybe even turn a profit versus selling the
cue for 50% or 60% of what you paid.....okay.....70%? This happens all the time with most pool cue purchases and seldom occurs
if you buy the right cue-maker at the right price.......and I'm not talking at rock bottom prices either......just intelligent prices based
upon the market the last 3-5 years.
 
Last edited:
kvinbrwr said:
That's VERY interesting. I remember when I was a kid my father explaining that the Great Depression was really a mental state that became a popular reality. A loss of confidence. Depression, is just that, depression, and depression is not much more than having one's bad feelings take precedence. Guys on AZ where complaining about "the cue market" when I thought times were pretty good. Then more guys were complaining, and then everyone was complaining.

I think we talked ourselves right into a Cue Depression here on AZ.

As you point out, the top tier makers still have life-time waiting lists, raise their prices and sell everything they make. The buyers are for sure still there and active. Its our community perception that says thely are not.
Click to expand...

There are (2) Markets which consistently "thrive" regardless of the Economic State.

Super High-end and Super Low-end Markets continue to flourish.
Let's say I decide to part with (2) Ferrari's and list them at the same time.
Car #1- 1978 Ferrari 308 GTB, 65k miles, Show Quality @ $50,000
Car #2- 1966 Ferrari 500 Superfast, 16k miles, Show Quaity @ $1, 950,000

Which will sell first ? ................. #2 will be gone in less than 24 hrs. ...
Ferrari 308's are plentiful (as are $300-$800 Cues). $100-$250 Cues seem
to move quickly, as do Gus Szamboti Box Cues (regardless of price).

The same is true with Luxury Watches. A $125, 000 Patek-Philippe Grand Complication
sells immediately, whereas $1,500-$5,000 Rolex's stagnate, as they are Everywhere.

It's a great time to build or fill a collection of Mid-Range Cues, but I would
hate to have sell any during this "lull" in that particular market.
 
Str8PoolPlayer said:
There are (2) Markets which consistently "thrive" regardless of the Economic State.

Super High-end and Super Low-end Markets continue to flourish.
Let's say I decide to part with (2) Ferrari's and list them at the same time.
Car #1- 1978 Ferrari 308 GTB, 65k miles, Show Quality @ $50,000
Car #2- 1966 Ferrari 500 Superfast, 16k miles, Show Quaity @ $1, 950,000

Which will sell first ? ................. #2 will be gone in less than 24 hrs. ...
Ferrari 308's are plentiful (as are $300-$800 Cues). $100-$250 Cues seem
to move quickly, as do Gus Szamboti Box Cues (regardless of price).

The same is true with Luxury Watches. A $125, 000 Patek-Philippe Grand Complication
sells immediately, whereas $1,500-$5,000 Rolex's stagnate, as they are Everywhere.

It's a great time to build or fill a collection of Mid-Range Cues, but I would
hate to have sell any during this "lull" in that particular market.
Click to expand...

Yes I think that's right. The super high-end survives almost no matter what. There are far less of the super rare, very high end uniquities and when they come available, they are going to be acquired no matter what. It is the middle of the road (less collectible) that really takes the hit. in a way, that's the market adjusting as the middle of the road stuff maybe got pulled along too much by the high-end gear in a hot market.

I sometimes wonder if we are in a lull for cues or if every year we just get a year further away from The Color of Money.


Kevin
 
Last edited:
kvinbrwr said:
I sometimes wonder if we are in a lull for cues or if every year we just get a year further away from The Color of Money
Click to expand...


The further away the better.
Every time I see some idiot swinging his cue around like a Samurai Sword, it makes me want to shoot that ****ing little Vincent.
 
Agree

kvinbrwr said:
That's VERY interesting. I remember when I was a kid my father explaining that the Great Depression was really a mental state that became a popular reality. A loss of confidence. Depression, is just that, depression, and depression is not much more than having one's bad feelings take precedence. Guys on AZ where complaining about "the cue market" when I thought times were pretty good. Then more guys were complaining, and then everyone was complaining.

I think we talked ourselves right into a Cue Depression here on AZ.

As you point out, the top tier makers still have life-time waiting lists, raise their prices and sell everything they make. The buyers are for sure still there and active. Its our community perception that says they are not.
Click to expand...

I agree with this explanation.Years ago when the DCC was held at the Executive West, all the top dealers were jammed within a couple of hundred sq.ft area.The dealers would display their cues, most with very serious poker faces. One in particular would look downright sad, if asked how things were going he would say in a pitiful voice " oh not to good " This atmosphere gave no one the incentive or confidence to pull the trigger on anything. The lifesaver was Bill Grassley of Cornerstone Cues.He would display the top of the line cues behind his table in a half circle, he was always smiling and talking positive . He listened to all deals and worked to make something happen. His attitude was contagious, in a short while everyone was wheeling and dealing, a friend of mine sold and bought the cues he brought several times, all of the other dealers got the fever to, everyone benefitted, but if you took Bills positive attitude out of there you would swear you were at a wake.Depression is running rampant here on AZ , Grassley come and shake things up!
 
Now you went and done it ....

kvinbrwr said:
Yes I think that's right. The super high-end survives almost no matter what. There are far less of the super rare, very high end uniquities and when they come available, they are going to be acquired no matter what. It is the middle of the road (less collectible) that really takes the hit. in a way, that's the market adjusting as the middle of the road stuff maybe got pulled along too much by the high-end gear in a hot market.

I sometimes wonder if we are in a lull for cues or if every year we just get a year further away from The Color of Money.


Kevin
Click to expand...

You have thrown my tired, old, feeble brain into Maximum Overdrive.

All BS aside, I feel "The Hustler" set the benchmark for all future Pool-themed Movies. Granted, I enjoyed Color of Money, in spite of Vincent (as CB mentioned above). It gave Pool a "shot-in-the-arm" when Pool was at an ebb. Pool needs "a Fix" (for the lack of a better term) more than ever and what is being done, to that end.

The Jansco Brothers and Johnston City came to mind, like a bolt of Lightning.

WHY NOT build a Powerful Pool Movie around all those wonderful stories that came out of the glory (and not so glorious) days of "Hustlers, Pimps, and Whores" in Johnston City before, during, and after the Tournaments ? There surely are enough great real-life tales and characters from those times to fill volumes.
"Johnston City " could be the perfect "vehicle" to resurrect Pool in this Country.
And ... The primary / secondary Cue markets would benefit greatly from another Powerful Pool Movie.

Link to Johnston City Pool Tournaments: http://www.onepocket.org/JohnstonCity.htm
 
Last edited:
franko said:
I agree with this explanation.Years ago when the DCC was held at the Executive West, all the top dealers were jammed within a couple of hundred sq.ft area.The dealers would display their cues, most with very serious poker faces. One in particular would look downright sad, if asked how things were going he would say in a pitiful voice " oh not to good " This atmosphere gave no one the incentive or confidence to pull the trigger on anything. The lifesaver was Bill Grassley of Cornerstone Cues.He would display the top of the line cues behind his table in a half circle, he was always smiling and talking positive . He listened to all deals and worked to make something happen. His attitude was contagious, in a short while everyone was wheeling and dealing, a friend of mine sold and bought the cues he brought several times, all of the other dealers got the fever to, everyone benefitted, but if you took Bills positive attitude out of there you would swear you were at a wake.Depression is running rampant here on AZ , Grassley come and shake things up!
Click to expand...

So amazing that you would mention Grassley. I've had some dealings with Bill and he is in my mind an amazing individual with uncommon honesty and attitude. I was thinking of him in relation to my "Depression" post also as he has always has an extremely upbeat attitude about the market, cues, people, and life in general. I think two things about Bill:

1) He almost never comes here to AZ anymore (which is really amazing when you consider that most of us think all of the collectors are here and selling collectible pool cues is his business).

2) (at least it was the last time we spoke) business is booming at Cornerstone Cues.

That's two amazing facts when considered in conjunction and really supports my theory that our current depressed cue market is a figment of the AZ imagination and creation.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Last edited:
Str8PoolPlayer said:
You have thrown my tired, old, feeble brain into Maximum Overdrive.

All BS aside, I feel "The Hustler" set the benchmark for all future Pool-themed Movies. Granted, I enjoyed Color of Money, in spite of Vincent (as CB mentioned above). It gave Pool a "shot-in-the-arm" when Pool was at an ebb. Pool needs "a Fix" (for the lack of a better term) more than ever and what is being done, to that end.

The Jansco Brothers and Johnston City came to mind, like a bolt of Lightning.

WHY NOT build a Powerful Pool Movie around all those wonderful stories that came out of the glory (and not so glorious) days of "Hustlers, Pimps, and Whores" in Johnston City before, during, and after the Tournaments ? There surely are enough great real-life tales and characters from those times to fill volumes.
"Johnston City " could be the perfect "vehicle" to resurrect Pool in this Country.
And ... The primary / secondary Cue markets would benefit greatly from another Powerful Pool Movie.

Link to Johnston City Pool Tournaments: http://www.onepocket.org/JohnstonCity.htm
Click to expand...

I think The Hustler is the best pool movie ever made and one of the best films of all time. I think that majority of people today in the US that have any interest in pool were drawn to the game as a result of that movie. That movie happened some time ago, and those people are, well, a little older now.

I think The Color of Money completely motivated the pool cue collectible market and cues, Balabushkas especially, just completely lept as a result. I think that film and its resultant effect on our national culture, took the values of Balabushkas through the roof, and Balabushkas pulled the rest of the collectible cue brands up along with them.

I think the people drawn to the game through The Hustler are older and I think today is one day further away from The Color of Money than yesterday was.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top