C.J. Wiley VS Keith McCready - What's The Line?
- Thread starter HawaiianEye
- Start date
no pool promoter except Matt Braun continued on ESPN
That's right, it was a huge commercial for the game of pool.....and it worked. Anytime you can get a million people exposed to an ad it has effect on behavior.
What's the value of advertising the game of pool to millions of people over the course of a month? When you consider one commercial is 30 seconds, and the national spots are $7000 - the show is 40 minutes so that's $560,000 of advertising value per episode.
No wonder pool was so popular in the mid to late 90s with ESPN advertising our game to the tune of millions per week. When the Pro Tours stopped in 1999 it was the beginning of the end.....no promoter except Matt Braun continued on ESPN (Matt has sold millions of western novels and started the 'International Challenge of Champions')...and the game lost again, from lack of marketing, advertising and big media representation.
That's right, it was a huge commercial for the game of pool.....and it worked. Anytime you can get a million people exposed to an ad it has effect on behavior.
What's the value of advertising the game of pool to millions of people over the course of a month? When you consider one commercial is 30 seconds, and the national spots are $7000 - the show is 40 minutes so that's $560,000 of advertising value per episode.
No wonder pool was so popular in the mid to late 90s with ESPN advertising our game to the tune of millions per week. When the Pro Tours stopped in 1999 it was the beginning of the end.....no promoter except Matt Braun continued on ESPN (Matt has sold millions of western novels and started the 'International Challenge of Champions')...and the game lost again, from lack of marketing, advertising and big media representation.
He would need the world.
At a minimum, he'd need a higher degree
"coming off the end rail" to win the cheese on the hill.
Keith has a great tempo, and his claim to fame was shot-making.
He could cut the paint off the ball and also banked well.....he had to have those qualities playing 2 Foul Roll Out rules. I'll bet he can remember many times "coming off the end rail" to win the cheese on the hill.
Keith has a great tempo, and his claim to fame was shot-making.
He could cut the paint off the ball and also banked well.....he had to have those qualities playing 2 Foul Roll Out rules. I'll bet he can remember many times "coming off the end rail" to win the cheese on the hill.
That's right, it was a huge commercial for the game of pool.....and it worked. Anytime you can get a million people exposed to an ad it has effect on behavior.
What's the value of advertising the game of pool to millions of people over the course of a month? When you consider one commercial is 30 seconds, and the national spots are $7000 - the show is 40 minutes so that's $560,000 of advertising value per episode.
No wonder pool was so popular in the mid to late 90s with ESPN advertising our game to the tune of millions per week. When the Pro Tours stopped in 1999 it was the beginning of the end.....no promoter except Matt Braun continued on ESPN (Matt has sold millions of western novels and started the 'International Challenge of Champions')...and the game lost again, from lack of marketing, advertising and big media representation.
The highest ESPN rating for a single showing was .64 , 584 k in 99 for a woman's final the average at its peak was .29 ,,
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ESPN exposure was especially noticeable when walking through an airport.
Don't be silly, we were averaging "1" ratings in the mid to late 90s. Our professional tour (PCA) teamed up with the ladies tour (WPBA) and put on some record setting events. Both tours sanctioned the events, along with the WPA who sent several players.
Gary Morgenstein, the producer for ESPN told me I had over 600 international hours on ESPN (96-99)...either he was lying (which is unlikely) or telling the truth...how much exposure do you think the entire tournament had? (all matches were televised and shown many times throughout the year) It was amazing the notoriety these events gave us, it was especially noticeable when walking through an airport.
These were mostly "Live to Tape" events, the LIVE ones received some exceptionally high ratings. Unfortunately we had to cancel many of our TV schedule in 96 because of Earl winning the Million Dollar Challenge.......by shooting the Million Dollar Shot.
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Don't be silly, we were averaging "1" ratings in the mid to late 90s. Our professional tour (PCA) teamed up with the ladies tour (WPBA) and put on some record setting events. Both tours sanctioned the events, along with the WPA who sent several players.
Gary Morgenstein, the producer for ESPN told me I had over 600 international hours on ESPN (96-99)...either he was lying (which is unlikely) or telling the truth...how much exposure do you think the entire tournament had? (all matches were televised and shown many times throughout the year) It was amazing the notoriety these events gave us, it was especially noticeable when walking through an airport.
These were mostly "Live to Tape" events, the LIVE ones received some exceptionally high ratings. Unfortunately we had to cancel many of our TV schedule in 96 because of Earl winning the Million Dollar Challenge.......by shooting the Million Dollar Shot.
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LINE---CJ vs KEITH
i'm a HUGE fan of both and strictly from an action point of view, not to degrade/insult either player, i say kieth doesn't 70 in a race to 100 over 2 or 3 days. When both were at the height of their power the line would have been CJ not getting to 90.
Keiths ability to "shock and awe" was greater to anything CJ experienced and only approached when he tried Busty or Earl
imo and it's a shame that we'll never know
JAM is a 6 io 5 fav vs dr dave
i'm a HUGE fan of both and strictly from an action point of view, not to degrade/insult either player, i say kieth doesn't 70 in a race to 100 over 2 or 3 days. When both were at the height of their power the line would have been CJ not getting to 90.
Keiths ability to "shock and awe" was greater to anything CJ experienced and only approached when he tried Busty or Earl
imo and it's a shame that we'll never know
JAM is a 6 io 5 fav vs dr dave
[/QUOTE]Don't be silly, we were averaging "1" ratings in the mid to late 90s. Our professional tour (PCA) teamed up with the ladies tour (WPBA) and put on some record setting events. Both tours sanctioned the events, along with the WPA who sent several players.
Gary Morgenstein, the producer for ESPN told me I had over 600 international hours on ESPN (96-99)...either he was lying (which is unlikely) or telling the truth...how much exposure do you think the entire tournament had? (all matches were televised and shown many times throughout the year) It was amazing the notoriety these events gave us, it was especially noticeable when walking through an airport.
These were mostly "Live to Tape" events, the LIVE ones received some exceptionally high ratings. Unfortunately we had to cancel many of our TV schedule in 96 because of Earl winning the Million Dollar Challenge.......by shooting the Million Dollar Shot.
I just didn't pluck that out of the air , it's on thier site , do some reasearch you'll find it
ESPN flagship 11 pm news or PTI doesn't get a 1 and your telling me pool was doing better that that. I would have to see it to believe ,,
I agree it goy lots of exposure running reruns over and over again ,, can't help but get some reverb thru the pool world
However it was penny's compared to any other sport , even the fish tours had far more money thru out thier pro's ,
Pro pool players except the select handful saw very little chance ,, the woman by far got the most viewers
Those days are long gone , ESPN now has much bigger fish in thier pond than it did then with its big contracts with the big , and all the shows that come with them before and after ,,so the slice of the pie left is very small
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a great game for men and women to compete in a friendly, safe environment.
The women got the most viewers? This would be difficult considering the tournaments referred to were men and women equally. The point is when the men and women played together the ratings, gates, and TV exposure was huge compared to today.
Pool is a great game for men and women to compete in a friendly, safe environment. This is certainly one of the game's strong points.
I just didn't pluck that out of the air , it's on thier site , do some reasearch you'll find it
ESPN flagship 11 pm news or PTI doesn't get a 1 and your telling me pool was doing better that that. I would have to see it to believe ,,
I agree it goy lots of exposure running reruns over and over again ,, can't help but get some reverb thru the pool world
However it was penny's compared to any other sport , even the fish tours had far more money thru out thier pro's ,
Pro pool players except the select handful saw very little chance ,, the woman by far got the most viewers
Those days are long gone , ESPN now has much bigger fish in thier pond than it did then with its big contracts with the big , and all the shows that come with them before and after ,,so the slice of the pie left is very small
1[/QUOTE]
The women got the most viewers? This would be difficult considering the tournaments referred to were men and women equally. The point is when the men and women played together the ratings, gates, and TV exposure was huge compared to today.
Pool is a great game for men and women to compete in a friendly, safe environment. This is certainly one of the game's strong points.
I just didn't pluck that out of the air , it's on thier site , do some reasearch you'll find it
ESPN flagship 11 pm news or PTI doesn't get a 1 and your telling me pool was doing better that that. I would have to see it to believe ,,
I agree it goy lots of exposure running reruns over and over again ,, can't help but get some reverb thru the pool world
However it was penny's compared to any other sport , even the fish tours had far more money thru out thier pro's ,
Pro pool players except the select handful saw very little chance ,, the woman by far got the most viewers
Those days are long gone , ESPN now has much bigger fish in thier pond than it did then with its big contracts with the big , and all the shows that come with them before and after ,,so the slice of the pie left is very small
1[/QUOTE]
any players on earth that would have given my 10 going to 100?
Busty and Earl weren't the necessarily the best players I played.
Efren, Johnny Archer, Dennis Hatch, Rodney Morris, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Steve Mizerak, Jimmy Rempe, Mike Lebron, and Shane VanBoening were also pretty good.
Was there any players on earth that would have given my 10 going to 100? Highly doubtful.....especially playing a race all the way to 100.
Busty and Earl weren't the necessarily the best players I played.
Efren, Johnny Archer, Dennis Hatch, Rodney Morris, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Steve Mizerak, Jimmy Rempe, Mike Lebron, and Shane VanBoening were also pretty good.
Was there any players on earth that would have given my 10 going to 100? Highly doubtful.....especially playing a race all the way to 100.
Banks
Banned
I think you're wasting your time with this one. Facts are useless here. Harry Frankfurt may have something to say about the claims, though.
When a sport vanishes from ESPN, it disappears from sight, and is invisible to minds
The facts will set us free.......
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We are pleased to bring you the latest episodes of pool and billiards on TV. For your convenience, the data can be sorted by each individual column. Please check back frequently as show times and dates are subject to change.
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Currently, ESPN has no billiards-related programming scheduled. Please check back to see if dates are added in the near future.
The facts will set us free.......
TV SCHEDULE - Billiards Digest
We are pleased to bring you the latest episodes of pool and billiards on TV. For your convenience, the data can be sorted by each individual column. Please check back frequently as show times and dates are subject to change.
All times shown are Eastern Standard Time.
Date Day Time Episode Taped Network
Currently, ESPN has no billiards-related programming scheduled. Please check back to see if dates are added in the near future.
Busty and Earl weren't the necessarily the best players I played.
Efren, Johnny Archer, Dennis Hatch, Rodney Morris, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Steve Mizerak, Jimmy Rempe, Mike Lebron, and Shane VanBoening were also pretty good.
Was there any players on earth that would have given my 10 going to 100? Highly doubtful.....especially playing a race all the way to 100.
Good to see you still have some fire in your belly. Last time i saw you play (texas tour/championship) you appeared close to being back, now, push yourself away from the keyboard and once again establish your position as one of the best in the country, if not the world.
Unlike the 90's you can get action, many didn't (or don't want to) see what i saw.
You can do it, if you want it...
CJ is correct here. I had seating for up to 1500 people at the Burbank Hilton in 1993 and had well over a thousand people on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The total gate was over 50K! On Sunday CJ played Earl in the finals with a first prize of $21,000! It was televised on ESPN, as well as the Women's final. I have DVD's of these two matches available on my website. CJ got $11,000 for second. Both players were paid by check (a good one!) immediately after the match.
The total prize money for that event was $140,000 in 1993! In 1994 the purse increased to over $160,000. That was the year the Men (thanks to Don Mackey) boycotted the tournament, and most of the top players did not come. Mark Tadd won $26,000 and some of these same players (they know who they are) were sick about it afterward. There was never another Los Angeles Open, canceled because of a poor decision by the players to boycott in 1994. I found out that year about loyalty and it wasn't pretty to say the least.
Happy New Year, Jay, Thanks for All Your Efforts Through the Years
You always paid, you always promoted, you always posted match times, you always went the extra mile for charitable causes, you always had the cream of the crop players.....we didn't have much to complain about that's for sure, even the "groupies" were incredible around your tournaments. I can't believe how many hot women used to frequent the pool tournaments in Los Angeles.....I still remember "Brittney" the negligee model.
I apologize for getting caught up in the "political battles" with Don Mackey, and boycotting that tournament. I can't remember having much of a choice at the time.
As a rule professional players must do as they're told or their blackballed. I always appreciated your effort to talk with players in a professional manner rather than hitting them with the ultimatums - things work out so much better that way for all parties involved.
Happy New Year, Jay, Thanks for All Your Efforts Through the Years
You always paid, you always promoted, you always posted match times, you always went the extra mile for charitable causes, you always had the cream of the crop players.....we didn't have much to complain about that's for sure, even the "groupies" were incredible around your tournaments. I can't believe how many hot women used to frequent the pool tournaments in Los Angeles.....I still remember "Brittney" the negligee model.
I apologize for getting caught up in the "political battles" with Don Mackey, and boycotting that tournament. I can't remember having much of a choice at the time.
As a rule professional players must do as they're told or their blackballed. I always appreciated your effort to talk with players in a professional manner rather than hitting them with the ultimatums - things work out so much better that way for all parties involved.
Happy New Year, Jay, Thanks for All Your Efforts Through the Years
A couple corrections here, Jay. I was aware that 1993 was the year of some boycotts by Mackey's group, so I checked when I read your mention of 1994 above. It turns out that I think you are talking about 1992 and 1993 rather than 1993 and 1994.
In 1992, the L.A. Open was strictly a 9-ball event. Strickland won; Archer was 2nd. Strickland came from the losers' side after Wiley beat him earlier on the winners' side. Then Strickland beat Reyes and Mizerak to get another shot at Wiley in the semifinals. Strickland won that match and then beat Archer from hill-hill in the finals. Wiley got $6,000 for 3rd. Billiards Digest shows total prize money of $96,500 (paying 32 places for the men and 12 for the women).
The next year, 1993, the L.A. Open was an all-around event, with Tadd's $26,000 coming from finishing 1st in the 9-Ball ($10,000), 1st in the Bank Pool ($6,000), 2nd in the One-Pocket ($5,000), and, therefore, 1st for overall champion ($5,000 bonus). Billiards Digest shows total prize money of $101,500 (paying 16 places in 9-Ball and One-Pocket, 12 in Banks, and 4 for the bonus money).
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The highlight for me was defeating a new guy in the country - Francisco Bustamante
That's a huge relief, I didn't remember playing in the finals, he offered to mail me the ESPN show, and I forgot to take him up on it.
For some reason I didn't have my regular cue so Jack Potter loaned me a LIBRA Cue. I went to California and played in Jay's tournament, and two other PBTA Events, finishing with 2 seconds and a third (at the Burbank Hilton). The highlight for me was defeating a new guy in the country - Francisco Bustamante. That was the first (13/12) of many tournament and gambling matches.
I wonder what he ever did with that cue, looking back I should have bought it.
That's a huge relief, I didn't remember playing in the finals, he offered to mail me the ESPN show, and I forgot to take him up on it.
For some reason I didn't have my regular cue so Jack Potter loaned me a LIBRA Cue. I went to California and played in Jay's tournament, and two other PBTA Events, finishing with 2 seconds and a third (at the Burbank Hilton). The highlight for me was defeating a new guy in the country - Francisco Bustamante. That was the first (13/12) of many tournament and gambling matches.
I wonder what he ever did with that cue, looking back I should have bought it.
Jay, I'd be interested on your take of the impact this boycott had on Professional Pool? Was this a major factor in Men's Professional Pool beginning a downward spiral or did it have minimal to no impact? Obviously, it had the impact of seeing a good paying tournament with good attendance and TV coverage cancelled, so it had some impact.
It's hard to imagine paying those size prize funds. What year did I play Mark Tadd in Vegas, Jay, was that 92 or 93? We played two, $10,000 sets in a couple of hours.